142 réponses à ce sujet

[Oldbones2]

The guy who wrote the article does have a point.

In fact he makes the only point that I think is a good one against the people seeking to change the ending of ME 3.

In that you don't have the right to change art because YOU think it is better.

However keep in mind two things.

1 Not everyone who is against the ending is joining the petition.
- They do have a legitimate right to complain about ME 3.
- Art is not above criticism, not even great art.

2 If ME 3 was solely a form of art it would be WRONG to demand a change. However ME 3 is ALSO a PRODUCT sold to customers.
- If a customer is told that a product meets certain specifications or requirements and it fails to do so, the product and the company that produces that product are at fault, NOT the customers who point this out.

[Kanner]

This just makes me not care about bad-ass digest. =/

[Loltus]

I feel like most of you are missing the point. He's not arguing that you have no right or privilege to be upset or angry with the ending. You may think what you will of the ending. However, by demanding that it be changed, you're acting like the game's IP belongs to you, not Bioware. That is simply not true. Him not having played the game doesn't change that.

[Kanner]

Loltus wrote...

I feel like most of you are missing the point. He's not arguing that you have no right or privilege to be upset or angry with the ending. You may think what you will of the ending. However, by demanding that it be changed, you're acting like the game's IP belongs to you, not Bioware. That is simply not true. Him not having played the game doesn't change that.

No.

If I demand you move your car because you parked it really badly, I am not expressing ownership over you or your car. Bioware 'owns' Mass Effect.  People are upset with what they've done with it, and at $50 a time, the customer also has some rights.  

[Tazzmission]

Kanner wrote...

Loltus wrote...

I feel like most of you are missing the point. He's not arguing that you have no right or privilege to be upset or angry with the ending. You may think what you will of the ending. However, by demanding that it be changed, you're acting like the game's IP belongs to you, not Bioware. That is simply not true. Him not having played the game doesn't change that.

No.

If I demand you move your car because you parked it really badly, I am not expressing ownership over you or your car. Bioware 'owns' Mass Effect.  People are upset with what they've done with it, and at $50 a time, the customer also has some rights.  

so lets say someone is anti nudity should that allow them  to protest to censor european art now?

this is where it gets dangerouse btw because there demanding someones vision to be altered

just because that group has a voice dosent mean the crap they spew is true

heck even better

should violent games be banned now because certain people believe they alter kids minds now? after all your telling a developer that one you know more than them and 2. your ensoring there work

Modifié par Tazzmission, 15 mars 2012 - 11:04 .

[Kanner]

I don't follow your point at all.

No-one is suggesting that Bioware doesn't have the right under law to make an awful game. This isn't a censorship issue (although I wish I hadn't seen any of the ending, for sure. Maybe a warning label would have helped?)

This is about delivering a product to your customers. People paid money for this, they received what they regard as a subpar performance, they are allowed to boo the performers off stage and petition the box office for a refund.

People hating bad art that they paid money to see is as old as time. That's all this is. Nothing philosophical, psychological, or new-agey about it, not the fact that it's a computer game, or that they're complaining on the internet, or that there's a charity drive involved.

(Actually, the charity drive is kinda unique. That speaks really well of the fans, however.)

[Errationatus]

Darthlawsuit wrote...

When 95%+ of the fanbase agree you screwed up... you screwed up.

Can I see your backed-up-by-evidence stats for that statement? Cause it looks like you talking outjer other orifice. You and 95% of... whatever.

Just because a million people believe a lie does not make the lie the truth.

This game is not food, not transportation, not a home.  When you installed it - and you DID read the EULA, right? - you gave up any rights to it whatsoever.  You bought a license that gave you the right to play it, nothing else - you did not purchase property, nor the rights to anything you saw on screen.

People can b!tch all they want, they have that right, but it will change precisely nothing. It didn't get Star Trek put back on the air (that was a crass publicity stunt by Roddenberry), it only made Lucas put even more "nooos!" into Star Wars. It didn't change the end to Lost, that BSG remake's ending, get Farscape another season or Firefly put back on TV. 

If Bioware puts out a DLC that gives you a happy ending and charges for it, fans'll buy it, because everyone whining about it has already pretty much said as much.

All Bioware has to say is that they "planned it all along", and who cares if you don't believe them?  The constant petulant rage has killed any integrity this fanbase had - here or anywhere else.

Then most will show what hypocrites they are by squealing that they had to pay for it.  If it's free, they'll get smug and sneer that they cowed the mighty into crawling.  Then they'll b!tch again if it isn't precisely what they want.

I can understand why they're neither in any rush to respond to any of this nor create immediate fixes.  It doesn't do them any good at all.  The 95% self-righteous won't listen or accept anything at this point, so Bioware is damned if they do and damned if they don't. 

[OutlawTorn6806]

Kanner doesn't understand the concept of "False Analogy"

[bleetman]

JakeMacDon wrote...

The 95% self-righteous won't listen or accept anything at this point, so Bioware is damned if they do and damned if they don't.

I would say "what they want" is pretty obvious to everyone involved, really.

[SirCrimz]

Read the first sentence and stopped reading there.

[Kanner]

OutlawTorn6806 wrote...

Kanner doesn't understand the concept of "False Analogy"

You saying video games aren't art?

[Xewaka]

PKchu wrote...

The idea that control doesn't rest with the authors...that's an insane idea, it's impossible to think that. Can you will something into existence?

It is asking, not asserting direct control.

Actually, the idea that control of the product, once released, is no longer in the hands of the author, is a well documented theory.

[valkulon]

40k people is not the fanbase considering the game sold 900k in North America alone.

So throwing around 90% of the fanbase is quite misleading.

Modifié par Valhart, 16 mars 2012 - 12:32 .

[Kanner]

Valhart wrote...

40k people is not the fanbase considering the game sold 900k in North America alone.

So throwing around 90% of the fanbase is quite misleading.

Yeah? So, normally when a game is bad you get how many people donating to a charity to raise awareness of how angry they are that the game is bad?

The section of people who are so mad that they will pay money to express how mad they are is either just the merest tip of the iceburg, or a crazy cult of 40 000 mad people trying to mess with Bioware.

Which is more likely?

[KillSlash45]

The article made ZERO mention about the quality of the endings. It was an article about the fan backlash. So he didn't need to play it to comment about the backlash, because he can "research" that topic with google.

[valkulon]

Kanner wrote...

Yeah? So, normally when a game is bad you get how many people donating to a charity to raise awareness of how angry they are that the game is bad?

The section of people who are so mad that they will pay money to express how mad they are is either just the merest tip of the iceburg, or a crazy cult of 40 000 mad people trying to mess with Bioware.

Which is more likely?

2222 people have donated to the Childs Play Charity. Still not the whole fanbase.

Do not get me wrong, I understand that there are people who do not like the ending, but it is a fallacy to say it is the whole fanbase, or 90%, or OVER 9000 when you and everyone else does not have hard facts. The only true thing you or anyone else can say is that there are a fairly decent amount of people who are angry and disappointed about the endings.

Continue to claim it's the whole fanbase, 90%, etc and Bioware is going to continue to ignore you because you're just pulling numbers out of thin air.

Modifié par Valhart, 16 mars 2012 - 12:50 .

[Kanner]

Well we're certainly not being ignored - they're taken pains to point out that much.

I can't disagree with your comment that it's silly to say that 90% of the fan base are... whatever. More people are excessively angry than excessively happy with the endings so far, from what I can tell.

But using the small number of people donating money to express their unhappiness as anything other than a major measure of how wildly bad this is just doesn't make any sense to me. Remember also it's not 2k out of 1.8m - most of that 1.8M haven't even finished the game yet. That's one of the few areas I would be confident about saying 90%.

So either there is going to be a massive deluge of happy, satisfied mainstream customers, or this is going to get much, much, much worse. =/

[Maria Caliban]

Tazzmission wrote...

so lets say someone is anti nudity should that allow them  to protest to censor european art now?

Yes. People should be able to protest whatever they want.

People protested about the same-sex romances in Dragon Age and Mass Effect. I didn't like it, but I'd never say they're not allowed to do so.

[Farbautisonn]

-I lold at that woman and her opinions. Seriously. Holier than thou BS from beginning to end.

Comparing us to some deranged woman in fiction. Comparing Biowares game to "art". How about **** no and hyperbole on both accounts.

One thing I liked about the article though: It brings attention to the cause. Attention neither Bioware nor EA wants or needs. Especially at at time when they are still pushing their product in the far east.

I cant wait to hear the excuse from Bioware when they are asked why they decided to keep pushing a product they knew was staggeringly dissapointing and bugged to their far east clientele. Whatever hopes the ME franchise might have had to break into the Far east / Jrpg market, just got torpedoed by themselves. Grats guys.

Modifié par Farbautisonn, 16 mars 2012 - 08:06 .

[Han Shot First]

I stopped reading after "I haven't played the game."

Everything after that is invalid.

[Eterna]

Corkus LeBlunth IV wrote...

MSparkyPants wrote...

*Reads first sentence*

"I haven't played Mass Effect 3 yet..."

*closes tab*

Indeed! If you haven't played ME3 yet any opinion you have is crap.

Playing the game doesn't make you guys look less crazy. 

[Grey34]

as much as i hate them i don't think they should change ending because if they do then the people who didn't like the s/s romance will get the idea hey they change endings can change the romances etc. if you guys know what i mean

[Moonshadow_Dark]

Still waiting on why Mass Effect gets all these campaigns, yet Fable can continue to circle the drain.

Bioware makes a bad ending, you start a Retake campaign.

Peter Molyneux makes three terrible games after making one good one, you don't give two craps.

What. The. Hell?

[Farbautisonn]

Moonshadow_Dark wrote...

Still waiting on why Mass Effect gets all these campaigns, yet Fable can continue to circle the drain.

Bioware makes a bad ending, you start a Retake campaign.

Peter Molyneux makes three terrible games after making one good one, you don't give two craps.

What. The. Hell?

He is french. Nobody takes the frenchies serious. /duck.