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Why Catalyst Logic is Right IMO


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#26
Eyeshield21

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2484Stryker wrote...

But I thought my Shepard reconciled the Geth and Quarians?

This.
Sorry, but I'm not gonna let some AIChild tell me synthetics and organics can't make peace when I just brokered a peace treaty between the two. Twice in 2 playthroughs(both different sheps).
So the starchild is wrong. So very wrong.

#27
Darknessfalls23

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His logic isn't what bother me, it was Shepard accepting it. If you solved Geth and Quarian and talk to legion in the server where it proved that the Geth had and still have no wish to destroy organics , You should be able to prove the space baby wrong. Also what was the obsession with creating a human reaper over any other race. The whole ending seems like they saw the reboot of Battle star Galactica and wanted to copy the idea( since at least two of voice actors were chosen exclusively because of the show it doesn't surprise me). They should of stuck to the Dark energy Idea at least that sort of worked. Kind of like the plot of the Spin books by Robert Charles Wilson.

#28
shepskisaac

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desert116 wrote...

Here's a question; why don't the Reapers just destroy the offending synthetics if they want to protect organic life, instead of, you know, destroying organic life.

Because the advanced civilization would've crated new synthetics the next day?

#29
ReapersFTW

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Genera1Nemesis wrote...

"Plus, as that guy said above, if the reapers were created and just killed off every synthetic race that began, THAT would save species from "possible" synthetic attacks."

What if that AI was too sophisticated for the Reapers to destroy?


They seemed to rule over the Geth pretty easily.

#30
ShaneP

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"I'm going to send a race of sentient machines to wipe your race out, to stop the machines that they make from becoming too sentient and wiping them out"

Yeah, makes sense.

#31
shepskisaac

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Darknessfalls23 wrote...

His logic isn't what bother me, it was Shepard accepting it.

No, Shep said "maybe". And if you pick Destroy ending, then you're basically making a choice that you don't believe in technological singularity Reapers/Catalyst believe in.

Darknessfalls23 wrote...

Also what was the obsession with creating a human reaper over any other race.

They deemed humans as the strongest race of the cycle thus the representation of evolutionary peak of the cycle, I mean, wasn't it clear in ME2 already? Harbinger couldn't stop talking how humans' genetic code was great and how capable human were and how other races were inferior

#32
dkear1

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Sorry, I just don't understand any of this nonsense. Best way I can think of is this analogy:
So your kid does something dangerous. Instead of correcting your kid you murder him. This way he never does that dangerous thing again. No big deal as you can always have another kid or adopt one.

Yea.....seems legit................NOT.

Why don't the reapers just come in and kill off the so called dangerous synthetics and "save" the organics. Horrible logic hole here people.

#33
Umbrellamage

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suusuuu wrote...

Genera1Nemesis wrote...
Also, in ME3; when Legion is
uploading himself; he says that the death of the creators is the only solution;
and depending on Shep's interference that is what happens.

I believe this depends on your playthrough, because in my game, he never said something even remotely similar to what you're claiming.

Might just go in and check but I'm sure I would notice if he said something like that. 


Yeah, I got it on the stock Shepard playthrough.

Stock Shepard either sells, or never gets Legion, and never does, or fails Tali's loyalty mission in ME2.

The conversation goes much differently than if you picked up Legion, made Legion and Tali friends, prevented Tali's exile, and urged peace between Quarians and Geth.

#34
CroGamer002

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Sorry but Legion, EDI and Shepard resolving Geth-Quarian conflict with peace and alliance between both race, pretty much kills Catalyst's logic.

#35
AusitnDrake

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Genera1Nemesis wrote...

"Plus, as that guy said above, if the reapers were created and just killed off every synthetic race that began, THAT would save species from "possible" synthetic attacks."

What if that AI was too sophisticated for the Reapers to destroy?

Well they obviously destroy any existing AI anyway. Otherwise what happened to the AI of the Metacon War the protheans waged, and there must have been other AI in other cycles. Otherwise there would be no reason for the reapers to have even come into existence, according to the Star Child's reasons for them existing. Yet the only ones we encounter, or even mentioned in the present tense, other then the reapers are those that were created during the current cycle.

Modifié par AusitnDrake, 15 mars 2012 - 10:03 .


#36
111987

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The idea that Sovereign only woke up because of AI is wrong. The Reapers invade every 50,000 years. This was proven by Chorban's studying of the keepers.

#37
shepskisaac

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Mesina2 wrote...

Sorry but Legion, EDI and Shepard resolving Geth-Quarian conflict with peace and alliance between both race, pretty much kills Catalyst's logic.

If you think so then just pick destroy ending. I mean, it's rather clear that's what this is for

#38
cotheer

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So Reaper creators had some sort of magic (pun intended) crystal ball which told them that, what happened to them is SURE to happen to every civilization in the future to come?

Logic is flawed in its roots.

#39
Zofiya

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I don't really care about Star Child's logic. Why? Because:

1. Star Child is an AI.

2. AIs are created.

3. Someone created Star Child.

4. Star Child killed its creators.



This argument must be true, otherwise Star Child's logic is invalidated by its existence. This is proof of a homicidal AI that thinks it is right, not proof that is actually is right; we know that AI can be wrong, as evidenced by the geth heretics. Maybe Star Child's logic circuits are corrupt. Either way, time to blow up an AI core! :o

#40
KrAzY WiSh

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It seems pretty illogical to me. Instead of wiping civilisations out, the Reapers could instead just bomb them back to the stone age if they want to reset everything.

Before finishing the game, I had started to think of the Reapers as some bizarre kind of galactic Shepards, a bit like the Inhibitors from the Revelation Space books.

With regard to the Reapers, their motives should have remained a complete mystery. Sovereign stated their motives were beyond our comprehension and I quite liked that. The Reapers are a lot scarier as a hyper advanced, super intelligent race that we can never understand.

Outside Context Problem.

#41
2484Stryker

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Darknessfalls23 wrote...

His logic isn't what bother me, it was Shepard accepting it. If you solved Geth and Quarian and talk to legion in the server where it proved that the Geth had and still have no wish to destroy organics , You should be able to prove the space baby wrong. Also what was the obsession with creating a human reaper over any other race. The whole ending seems like they saw the reboot of Battle star Galactica and wanted to copy the idea( since at least two of voice actors were chosen exclusively because of the show it doesn't surprise me). They should of stuck to the Dark energy Idea at least that sort of worked. Kind of like the plot of the Spin books by Robert Charles Wilson.


^This

I'm sorry, but this ending is like a five year old's imitation of the Mona Lisa.  It's trying to be profound and deep and meaningful, but it isn't.  It fails.  Instead of fame and an unforgettable ending, it's infamous.

#42
CroGamer002

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IsaacShep wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

Sorry but Legion, EDI and Shepard resolving Geth-Quarian conflict with peace and alliance between both race, pretty much kills Catalyst's logic.

If you think so then just pick destroy ending. I mean, it's rather clear that's what this is for


What?

#43
JasmoVT

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The complete fallacy in the logic is that there is no reason to believe "synthetic life" is any better or worse than biologic life or somehow magically capable of being vastly superior to biologic life. Just as much sense to say since some humans will fight each other we should regularly wipe out all humans.

I accept it for purposes of the plot, but it is inherenetly illogical and to try to establish any logic in it is foolish.

#44
nitefyre410

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aristaea wrote...

I don't really care about Star Child's logic. Why? Because:

1. Star Child is an AI.

2. AIs are created.

3. Someone created Star Child.

4. Star Child killed its creators.



This argument must be true, otherwise Star Child's logic is invalidated by its existence. This is proof of a homicidal AI that thinks it is right, not proof that is actually is right; we know that AI can be wrong, as evidenced by the geth heretics. Maybe Star Child's logic circuits are corrupt. Either way, time to blow up an AI core! :o

 
^this 

#45
Myrmedus

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aristaea wrote...

I don't really care about Star Child's logic. Why? Because:

1. Star Child is an AI.

2. AIs are created.

3. Someone created Star Child.

4. Star Child killed its creators.



This argument must be true, otherwise Star Child's logic is invalidated by its existence. This is proof of a homicidal AI that thinks it is right, not proof that is actually is right; we know that AI can be wrong, as evidenced by the geth heretics. Maybe Star Child's logic circuits are corrupt. Either way, time to blow up an AI core! :o


Brilliant post.

#46
Luigitornado

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2484Stryker wrote...

But I thought my Shepard reconciled the Geth and Quarians?

But what about permantley?

I do think there should have been an option to argue with the Catalyst to bring up this point, but it would probably dissolve into, "And species before have done similar things and in the end the relationship failed. What makes this cycle different?"

ALSO

If you talk to Tali after the mission she says that the Geth are helping the Quarians by uploading to themselves to their suits to make "improvements" to their immunity system. She even goes to say that some Quarians are uneasy of this because where do you draw the line.

That could be a different problem, similar to Jarvik's cycle had, that leads to another war between organic and synthetic.

Too bad we'll never know lol

#47
SandTrout

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This is why even if the Catalyst is correct in-universe, the ending is still wrong and broken in terms of storytelling.

#48
ZacE7

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desert116 wrote...

Here's a question; why don't the Reapers just destroy the offending synthetics if they want to protect organic life, instead of, you know, destroying organic life.


do you actually believe everything the starkid says?

That certainly could have been a lie.  He was clearly trying to manipulate Shep

Modifié par ZacE7, 15 mars 2012 - 10:11 .


#49
Dae0

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My understanding of the ending is pretty much like the United States nuking the entire world so that no other super power will ever have the chance to rise and oust the current leadership...

#50
Luigitornado

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Iztiak wrote...

It's still absolutely terrible logic.

He's killing off entire species, as a synthetic, so that later on they aren't "possibly" killed by synthetics they create. It's obtuse and idiotic.

Because synthetics aren't always hostile... Honestly, in all situations BUT the reapers, they were friendly. The geth never acted as aggressors, and forgave the quarians and helped them back on the homeland as absolutely soon as the quarians stopped attacking.

Plus, as that guy said above, if the reapers were created and just killed off every synthetic race that began, THAT would save species from "possible" synthetic attacks.

Truly a terrible ending.


NO they are doing it so organic life can have a future. The rational is that synthetic life will destroy ALL organic life, not just "advanced" organic life.

And destroying the threatening synthetic life forms would do nothing. Project Overload showed the risk of this.