451 réponses à ce sujet

[Tomppa666t]

EA,bribes and the lack of backbone from critics

[KotorEffect3]

Volus Warlord wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

Volus Warlord wrote...

Tony_Knightcrawler wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...
To be fair, a game reviewer's job isn't to be a bug hunter.

Hehe, this quote reminds me of Dragon Age 2. I guess none of the reviewers, at all, became friends with Isabella. What an incredible and unlikely coincidence that was. :-P

Who would wanna be friends with Isabella? God knows where that's been.

Well it is either her or Merril and Merril just feels wrong.

Which one's Merril?

The elf mage, but this is getting off topic and well what the heck this forum has lost it's nut anyway.

[AkiKishi]

kbct wrote...

BuffPhantoms wrote...

kbct wrote...

Solgrid wrote...

Apparently it's easier to deny that Bioware dropped the ball on the ending then to admit they disappointed the mass majority their fans with a sub par, disjointed ending (in the opinion of said fans) to a great series. Instead of excuses and denial, just address your fans concerns, answer their pleas for answers and work to fix what the majority see as an egregious affront to those who are (or in some cases were) great and loyal fans of Mass Effect and Bioware. Continued denial and excuses only costs you your reputation, continued loyalty and in the end,  what apparently matters most to Bioware and EA now, money.

  Damage is already done.

And isn't reflecting in the sales or scores.

Massive damage.

The damage is already done when you look at your sales for the game. Remember, there is a difference between shipped units and sold units. Also, a lot of people pre-ordered the game. Let's see what happens in the coming weeks. That will be the test, I guess.

Well it sold less on day 1 than VG predicted in pre-sales. Pre-orders were predicted at 1.2 million. It sold around 8-900k
Whether that deficit was down to the DLC controversy we can only guess.

We know they shipped 3-5 million, but of course that means nothing unless those are sold through. They could end up like DA2 gathering dust on shelves and reduced to clear at fire sale prices. Given the terrible Amazon ratings I would not bet against it.

For a game that was likely hugely expensive to create the numbers are not great.

[cachx]

 Chances are that reviewers don't have such a large emotional investment with the game. (they do have to play a lot of games relatively quickly). And that's why a poor ending doesn't really get them that much.

[kbct]

Solgrid wrote...

The result of all this fallout will be in how Bioware's next game sells, how Mass Effect 3 DLC (provided it isn't a free, ending altering DLC) sells, and ultimately how Bioware responds to this incident. If Bioware loses alot of customers over this, or that paid Mass Effect DLC doesn't sell, maybe they will accept  the fact they severly disppointed a majority of their fans and that cost them both their reputation and their bottom line. Sadly with how defensive Bioware employees are (as evidenced by Stanely Woo) about how they refuse to accept it. Only time and sales will tell how much damage has been done.

Agreed, future sales will be the ultimate proof. However, sales trends over the coming weeks will provide feedback as well.

If people listen to the professional reviews, Mass Effect 3 will sell well. If they listen to user reviews, no bueno.

[cipher86]

bleachorange wrote...
And ME2's hubs were tiny compared to those other games. The overall content is the same, just spread out. I'm not knocking your opinion, I'm just saying think a little and you may change your mind.

I prefer variety, spending 8-10 hours in a zone is kinda dull.  People move around but it all stays the same.

[DoctorEss]

You do realize most "professional game critics" are PAID FOR GOOD SCORES.

You recall the debacle of the Kane & Lynch review that got the reviewer fired, because the site (Gamespot, I believe) was paid to hype the game and say it was good, right?

Or when IGN was forced to admit that yes, they are paid to give false good reviews, right?

If you don't remember those events, feel free to Google them. There's many more instances of that. Never, ever trust "professional" gaming press. I mean, IGN has a staff member IN ME3, for chrissakes.

One can't really trust a site covered from stem to stern in ME3 banners, ads, and flash trailers to give a fair and honest review, lol.

[bleachorange]

Solgrid wrote...

kbct wrote...

BuffPhantoms wrote...

kbct wrote...

Solgrid wrote...

Apparently it's easier to deny that Bioware dropped the ball on the ending then to admit they disappointed the mass majority their fans with a sub par, disjointed ending (in the opinion of said fans) to a great series. Instead of excuses and denial, just address your fans concerns, answer their pleas for answers and work to fix what the majority see as an egregious affront to those who are (or in some cases were) great and loyal fans of Mass Effect and Bioware. Continued denial and excuses only costs you your reputation, continued loyalty and in the end,  what apparently matters most to Bioware and EA now, money.

  Damage is already done.

And isn't reflecting in the sales or scores.

Massive damage.

The damage is already done when you look at your sales for the game. Remember, there is a difference between shipped units and sold units. Also, a lot of people pre-ordered the game. Let's see what happens in the coming weeks. That will be the test, I guess.

The result of all this fallout will be in how Bioware's next game sells, how Mass Effect 3 DLC (provided it isn't a free, ending altering DLC) sells, and ultimately how Bioware responds to this incident. If Bioware loses alot of customers over this, or that paid Mass Effect DLC doesn't sell, maybe they will accept  the fact they severly disppointed a majority of their fans and that cost them both their reputation and their bottom line. Sadly with how defensive Bioware employees are (as evidenced by Stanely Woo) about how they refuse to accept it. Only time and sales will tell how much damage has been done.

They aren't defensive. Stan has actually spent what has to be his free time here with us, reading our posts, because he was responding to a thread I was reading for over 6 hours, from 10pm Eastern time to 4am Eastern time. I think he probably is based out of Canada like the rest of the ME team, but who knows? Don't jump to conclusions.

What Stan has been doing is letting us know, yes, Bioware is at least paying attention. How much attention and if anything comes of it remains to be seen. Public Statements representing the company's viewpoint are always highly controlled, and always prepared ahead of time. Do you honestly think Bioware was prepared for this? Maybe, maybe not. But if they were, why the silence? They are still focusing on product rollout in other countries, and yet they take the time to say 'hey we havent forgotten you!'

By no means do I like the ending. But you give credit where credit is due, and criticize what you think needs it. I'm simply giving you information you may not know, so you can better your understanding.

[tecmonster]

Stanley Woo wrote...
Is that what the reviewer means by 100/100? Because I can think of several other ways to interpret a perfect score for a video game review:

- HOLY CRAP IT WAS SO FUN!
- the game is an exemplar of its genre
- everything the game was trying to accomplish, it did so
- the game is completely problem free
- the game is perfect
- the game has tremendous value for its price
- the positives of the whole game experience vastly outweighed the negatives

And depending on the site or publication's policies, it may or may not be possible to get a perfect score. not saying you're wrong, but I can think of other reasons a game might get a perfect (or high or low) score.

- Yes it was fun, a lot of fun ,until ....
- I don't think that works anymore because genre's have been so intermixed and well to be honest there are games out there that are better exemplar of the genres that Mass Effect tries to get.
- The game didn't accomplish what it tried to do. To many questions left, to much left te be done and not everything that was proimised was delivered.
- Not problem free, really not.
- Perfection does not exist.
- the game has tremendous value for its price, it is long, fun, .... but that is what we expect from Bioware.
- The positives don't completely outweigt the negatives, and for a perfect score it needs to completly outweigt.

when I was still in school a perfect score meant that every answer on the test/exam was answerd flawlesly, the answers were formulated perfectly and it was cleanly written. My teachers always said: a perfect score does not exist without cheating. And to get a perfect score at the end of the year you had to have a perfect score on all courses. It doesn't happen (except maybe for a handfull of people on the enitre world)

This game does deserve a 90/100 or maybe even a 92/100 but probably less with all the bugs (a few of them degrade the game or interrupt the experience) and uninspired incomplete (to not use the word bad) ending

[cotheer]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Lets see....

You meet a really a hot girl, you have steamy sex for weeks. Then you find out she gave you an STD. Does that still make the "journey" worth it ?

I wanted to use the "safari and malaria" analogy, but damn, this one runs with the Nobel 

[Novate]

sorry not sure how to link an actual video but this is Totalbiscuit mailbox 3/14/2012
near 10:50 he describes the current situations of gamers vs gamers. And how its actually hurting our future games.
Because when we start fighting among ourselves we lose, not only are we telling developers and investers that they can release less and less content and making it more expensive and that content they release can be less and less innovative they win and we lose.

[Nachtritter76]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Holding us to a higher standard, I can understand and am firmly in support of, since I believe we do make high-quality games. Holding us to a perfect standard, on the other hand, I wouldn't recommend, since no one can possibly live up to something like that.

To be perfectly frank, there are orders of magnitude between PERFECT (or SATISFYING) and what you delivered in the end.

[WilliamDracul88]

http://www.change.or...es-of-the-game#

[Volus Warlord]

KotorEffect3 wrote...

The elf mage, but this is getting off topic and well what the heck this forum has lost it's nut anyway.

So DA2 made you pick between a blatant hooker, going interspecial, or going gay? That explains a lot. 

And this forum's collective mind has long been lost. Recent events are just bringing the symptoms to the surface.

[Vaktathi]

 Some may genuinely think the game was as good as they rated it, 90%+ they may have no problem with the endings at all, as much as some hate the ending, others don't. That's fine. The game in all honesty was pretty ****ing great up until the last 5-10 minutes or so even for the vast majority of people who have huge problems with the ending. 

Others have obvious skin in the game, it's hard to see IGN for instance, with an employee as an actual character and *tons* of pre-release access and promotional marketing, doing anything but singing the games praises pretty much no matter what, and they've really shown their colors with Colin's editorial video. It's *very* difficult to take IGN's stance as unbiased seriously. 


What's surprising is that almost no mainstream gaming source saw fit to mention the endings or found anything wrong/controversial/surprising/etc in any way with them apparently, while it would appear the prevailing trend amongst players and fans is that the ending threw a giant monkeywrench into their vision of the ME series even before they could actually finish watching the end cinematics, and it seems few to none in the mainstream game press even saw fit to raise a possible point of contention on that until people started beating the game over last weekend. 



The fact that it blew them by completely, not even so much as a "some may find the ending controversial/odd/etc" in almost any reviews, is what's really blowing the ghost on this one, especially given how rapidly and powerfully the response to the game ending amongst fans came. 

Modifié par Vaktathi, 16 mars 2012 - 01:51 .

[kbct]

cotheer wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

Lets see....

You meet a really a hot girl, you have steamy sex for weeks. Then you find out she gave you an STD. Does that still make the "journey" worth it ?

I wanted to use the "safari and malaria" analogy, but damn, this one runs with the Nobel 

Yeah, BobSmith101 knocked the cover off the ball with that one! That analogy is going in my pocket.

[AkiKishi]

Volus Warlord wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

The elf mage, but this is getting off topic and well what the heck this forum has lost it's nut anyway.

So DA2 made you pick between a blatant hooker, going interspecial, or going gay? That explains a lot. 

And this forum's collective mind has long been lost. Recent events are just bringing the symptoms to the surface.

If only incest was on the table... not litteraly on the table, in the game.

I've never felt so railroaded in my life than I did in DA2 and that includes JRPGS with a fixed path.

[Draythe]

Adam Sessler works for G4TV. G4TV is owned by NBC Universal. NBC Universal is in a partnership with EA. EA is in an advertising and promotional partnership with NBC Universal, which to state once more, owns and completely funds G4TV. G4TV submits a review that states that essentially, Mass Effect (a game made by their advertising partner) is perfection itself.

We don't just scream paid reviews for no reason.

[bleachorange]

The only way to judge something is to experience it for yourself.

[Eebatsama]

I didn't like the endings, but you seriously cannot argue with Stan on this one guys - a review is one person's attempted objective opinion. I know a lot of us would give it a 8/10 just for the ending, but in a reviewers eyes the game is an amazing narrative for the 29.5 hours it took to get to the ending, has fantastic combat and interesting characters. The ending is a huge disappointment, but asking a games journalist to be subjective is to ask them to not do their job.

[Solgrid]

bleachorange wrote...

Solgrid wrote...

kbct wrote...

BuffPhantoms wrote...

kbct wrote...

Solgrid wrote...

Apparently it's easier to deny that Bioware dropped the ball on the ending then to admit they disappointed the mass majority their fans with a sub par, disjointed ending (in the opinion of said fans) to a great series. Instead of excuses and denial, just address your fans concerns, answer their pleas for answers and work to fix what the majority see as an egregious affront to those who are (or in some cases were) great and loyal fans of Mass Effect and Bioware. Continued denial and excuses only costs you your reputation, continued loyalty and in the end,  what apparently matters most to Bioware and EA now, money.

  Damage is already done.

And isn't reflecting in the sales or scores.

Massive damage.

The damage is already done when you look at your sales for the game. Remember, there is a difference between shipped units and sold units. Also, a lot of people pre-ordered the game. Let's see what happens in the coming weeks. That will be the test, I guess.

The result of all this fallout will be in how Bioware's next game sells, how Mass Effect 3 DLC (provided it isn't a free, ending altering DLC) sells, and ultimately how Bioware responds to this incident. If Bioware loses alot of customers over this, or that paid Mass Effect DLC doesn't sell, maybe they will accept  the fact they severly disppointed a majority of their fans and that cost them both their reputation and their bottom line. Sadly with how defensive Bioware employees are (as evidenced by Stanely Woo) about how they refuse to accept it. Only time and sales will tell how much damage has been done.

They aren't defensive. Stan has actually spent what has to be his free time here with us, reading our posts, because he was responding to a thread I was reading for over 6 hours, from 10pm Eastern time to 4am Eastern time. I think he probably is based out of Canada like the rest of the ME team, but who knows? Don't jump to conclusions.

What Stan has been doing is letting us know, yes, Bioware is at least paying attention. How much attention and if anything comes of it remains to be seen. Public Statements representing the company's viewpoint are always highly controlled, and always prepared ahead of time. Do you honestly think Bioware was prepared for this? Maybe, maybe not. But if they were, why the silence? They are still focusing on product rollout in other countries, and yet they take the time to say 'hey we havent forgotten you!'

By no means do I like the ending. But you give credit where credit is due, and criticize what you think needs it. I'm simply giving you information you may not know, so you can better your understanding.

I was using Mr. Woo as an example (that's what evidenced means:wizard:), as the general response from Bioware employees, including Casey Hudson, is defensive  in nature and a refusal to admit that fans are disappointed.  Quotation from Casey Hudson Interview:
(Interviewr)What are your thoughts on the reaction to the game’s endings?
(Casey Hudson) I didn’t want the game to be forgettable, and even right down to the
sort of polarizing reaction that the ends have had with people–debating
what the endings mean and what’s going to happen next, and what
situation are the characters left in. That to me is part of what’s
exciting about this story. There has always been a little bit of mystery
there and a little bit of interpretation, and it’s a story that people
can talk about after the fact.

End Quotation
Nowhere does he admit tht fans are disappointed in the endings, merely that such feelings were intentional in the design of said endings. That our reaction is merely discussing what the story means, interpretations and the such. Nowhere is the acknowledgement that fans are disappointed in the ending itself, just menton of the debate of what our "interpretation" of the ending is. I hate to point out that a vocal majority has interpreted the ending as disjointed and lacked the promised control that Bioware assured us it would have.

Modifié par Solgrid, 16 mars 2012 - 02:16 .

[Novate]

Reviews and Critics aren't going to support us, they need to be able to sell advertising space to these companies that they make the reviews for.
The only true reviews are the ones made by its consumers. The ones that aren't worry about their next paycheck from these companies.
We play games for entertainment, its not Our Privilege to play their games, its their Privilege for us the Consumers to play their games. Because without the Consumers they can creat as many games as they like, its not going to put food on their tables.

We hold the rights to let our opinion known and we should let it be known.

[Mr. Gogeta34]

To those who feel the vocal are the minority, then we'll know that all subsequent sales have nothing to do with anything other than Bioware's game.

[Jestina]

That Sessler guy is nothing but a joke anyways. Unless he gets incentives, he will bomb a game.

[TheSnappyDude]

  good question I would like to jump to paid off, but ill go with the they didnt finish it theroy since I have more respect for Bioware then that