451 réponses à ce sujet

[Everwarden]

InvincibleHero wrote...

Perhaps the problem is your heightened expectation.

The problem is Bioware outright lying about what the end of Mass Effect 3 would contain.

BW has the right to end it as they will since it is their property.

True, they could end it with a five minute video of Shepard dancing and farting while eating out of a can of beans if they really wanted to. That doesn't change the fact that it would be a horrible ending, and not even remotely what they promised their audience. 

...not gonna lie, though. That ending would be better. 

Modifié par Everwarden, 16 mars 2012 - 03:40 .

[kbct]

InvincibleHero wrote...

kbct wrote...

Sure, there are more faults with the game. My only point was to highlight three flaws (besides the ending) that have been heavily discussed in the forums.

Given the large disparity between the user reviews and the professional reviews, I have to consider that there are other factors at play in the professional reviewer's decision making process besides being objective.

There are simply too many perfect scores from professional reviewers.

You could be right about too many perfects, but that is a product of time. If you could point that % of all games receiving perfect has gone up considerably then maybe we'd have soemthing worth talking about.  If less than 1% of games made in a year get 10/10 then it does not need fixed. After all it does not mean perfect game it means best game possible and every game 10/10 has peers. It sets them apart from games scored 9.9 saying it is better than that game so it is valid to use the 10 score.

In my opinon, time should be an independent variable in an objective review. If the game has flaws now, it had flaws then.

I can see how some professional reviewers could overlook the four flaws I listed because they didn't experience them or didn't value them, but I can't accept the fact that so many of them did.

Unfortunately, there are other factors at play for professional reviewers besides being objective. Any astute observer will recognize it.

[Munktor]

It's funny because most of you keep referring to objective unbiased opinion, when truly your views are extremely subjective and biased lol.

[Vincent Rosevalliant]

Lancane wrote...

Saying that the ending doesn't truly effect the overall aspect of a series or trilogy is utter nonsense. Anyone with any sort of education in literature could tell you otherwise, I'd have liked to see someone tell that to Frank Herbert or J.R.R. Tolkien and see what sort of response they would have gotten. The ending is the climax of a story arch, it's suppose to be a sound conclusion to all that's led up to that point. Do you think Dune would have been considered a classic had the ending been dull and inept? What about Lord of the Rings? Think that would have been made into one of the biggest movie trilogies of all time or had near the success had it been written with a poor, unintelligible ending? You may believe so, no one in the literary community would agree with you though...success of a story is about the whole of the story not the beginning or the middle. Mass Effect 3 was a great game with a tremendous storyline but the ending was one of the worst I've ever seen or have read. It would be equal to reading David Edding's Belgariad series and at the end he finds a nuclear bomb in this amazing fantasy world and boom, the end. Yeah, that's great and fulfilling...but heck at least the first four books were gratifying.

QFT     well said.
I can't even imagine or remember a worse ending. It gave you no closure and more questions, but most of all the execution was rediculous. Plot holes, teleportation(?), lore-breaking and no explanation or epilogue.
Yet EVERY critic didn't care about any of that? And liked it?
Please. Don't ****** in my pocket and tell me it's raining.

[kbct]

Munktor wrote...

It's funny because most of you keep referring to objective unbiased opinion, when truly your views are extremely subjective and biased lol.

No, we're saying the professional reviews ain't so objective either.

[InvincibleHero]

kbct wrote...
In my opinon, time should be an independent variable in an objective review. If the game has flaws now, it had flaws then.

I can see how some professional reviewers could overlook the four flaws I listed because they didn't experience them or didn't value them, but I can't accept the fact that so many of them did.

Unfortunately, there are other factors at play for professional reviewers besides being objective. Any astute observer will recognize it.

No I meant in 2005 there were this many perfects and now adding every years totals after it then it becomes a much larger number. They are still a very small % of all games made. 

I know people say advertising pressures or outright bribes, but I bet every reviewer could point out technical objective reasons why they rated ME 3 higher than any game they rated 9.5 citing review materials and or opinions.  If they can't then they are a poor writer period.

[InvincibleHero]

Everwarden wrote...

InvincibleHero wrote...

Perhaps the problem is your heightened expectation.

The problem is Bioware outright lying about what the end of Mass Effect 3 would contain.

BW has the right to end it as they will since it is their property.

True, they could end it with a five minute video of Shepard dancing and farting while eating out of a can of beans if they really wanted to. That doesn't change the fact that it would be a horrible ending, and not even remotely what they promised their audience. 

...not gonna lie, though. That ending would be better. 

Can't explain well without spoilers but I think it has a happy ending much better than the rest. All are wins for the rest of the glaxy and the future. They never promised each user would be 100% squee happy.

Why do people make up outlandish non-sensical things as if it proves a point? If BW did that then there would be something objective to point to rather than I don't like the tone of the writing or the results of it.

[LinksOcarina]

Obrusnine wrote...

Why is it that not a single one I have seen with a review has even mentioned the terrible ending. I mean seriously, wtf???

Adam Sessler in on X-Play literally said "this is how you end a trilogy!"

That one made me laugh, really hard.

You havent read my review yet obviously..

[Obrusnine]

Okay, I have completely lost the flow of my own thread here, but I saw a comment as I was skimming through that I would like to comment on.

"Bioware has the right to end it their way since it's their property."

While this does hold some water, in some ways it's absolute BS. We paid our hard-earned money for a product that was specifically described to NOT be an A, B, C ending. That's exactly what we got. There is nothing worse then a product that advertises under false pretenses.

In addition, Mass Effect is a property people emotionally link with. After getting so emotionally invested over three entire games, getting an ending that was the complete opposite of what we had been promised was like a slap in the face.

Bioware themselves (or rather Casey Hudson) said that we played a part in co-writing the entire trilogy. I know for a fact I didn't help co-write that crappy ending.

After investing my money and time in their products, and after buying downloadable content for Mass Effect 2, we have the right to ask for a resolution. Especially when according to Casey, we helped write it. Which now... just kind of feels like an insult.

Modifié par Obrusnine, 16 mars 2012 - 04:23 .

[Munktor]

kbct wrote...

Munktor wrote...

It's funny because most of you keep referring to objective unbiased opinion, when truly your views are extremely subjective and biased lol.

No, we're saying the professional reviews ain't so objective either.

How not?  Reviews I see seem to focus on the gameplay and mechanics -- what I see on the forums is mere disdain and dislike for the artistic direction of the story. 

Seems to me evaluating gameplay/mechanics is an objective approach whereas criticizing the story is moreso a subjective opinion based on personal bias.

[LinksOcarina]

Munktor wrote...

kbct wrote...

Munktor wrote...

It's funny because most of you keep referring to objective unbiased opinion, when truly your views are extremely subjective and biased lol.

No, we're saying the professional reviews ain't so objective either.

How not?  Reviews I see seem to focus on the gameplay and mechanics -- what I see on the forums is mere disdain and dislike for the artistic direction of the story. 

Seems to me evaluating gameplay/mechanics is an objective approach whereas criticizing the story is moreso a subjective opinion based on personal bias.

A good reviewer though needs to focus on both, not just one. Especially considering the storyline is a high water mark for the game.

that said, Mass Effect 3 is unique because its a game five years in the making, its part of a trilogy. So a good reviewer needs to take into account the trilogy as a whole when talking about Mass Effect 3, and how it may or may not fit in with the trilogy.

[Zulmoka531]

http://kotaku.com/58...r-review-scores
Pretty much sums up what happens to you if you give a mainstream game a low rating.

[LinksOcarina]

Zulmoka531 wrote...

http://kotaku.com/58...r-review-scores
Pretty much sums up what happens to you if you give a mainstream game a low rating.

that doesn't happen much anymore. What does happen is the threat of publishers pulling ad revenue or just simply not sending games to review sites.

It's all tied to metacritic scores...but i'm actually wriitng an editiorial on that one as we speak.

[InvincibleHero]

Obrusnine wrote...

Okay, I have completely lost the flow of my own thread here, but I saw a comment as I was skimming through that I would like to comment on.

"Bioware has the right to end it their way since it's their property."

While this does hold some water, in some ways it's absolute BS. We paid our hard-earned money for a product that was specifically described to NOT be an A, B, C ending. That's exactly what we got. There is nothing worse then a product that advertises under false pretenses.

In addition, Mass Effect is a property people emotionally link with. After getting so emotionally invested over three entire games, getting an ending that was the complete opposite of what we had been promised was like a slap in the face.

Bioware themselves (or rather Casey Hudson) said that we played a part in co-writing the entire trilogy. I know for a fact I didn't help co-write that crappy ending.

After investing my money and time in their products, and after buying downloadable content for Mass Effect 2, we have the right to ask for a resolution. Especially when according to Casey, we helped write it. Which now... just kind of feels like an insult.

You do realize they say those things to play on your vanity. Anyone should realize they write everything giving you a menu of options period.

And it isn't you have to do things well making optimal choices to unlock the endings and variations thereof. Not everyone will get three option and each ends the story in a different and meaningful way. People are mad they don't get the ending they wanted happy Shepard gets married and has kids if able to. So they create proxy arguments so they don't appear shallow and demanding.

I got a new ending for you all that clsoes all plothole and lore violations. ENJOY.
New ending

1. Shepard dead squadmates dead with him

2. Normandy blows up exactly where people think it should be

3. reapers just want to have fun wiping out hated organics and robbing their tech

4. no choices at the end except two linear ones ala the first two games that end at the same place with cosmetic changes: reapers self-destruct or beaten conventionally

5. cycle is broken and reapers ended and BW determines the universe aftermath.


Any takers with their $10. NO anyone? Helllooo.....

It can get more grim and you'd have to say hey they did what I asked so that is acceptable. People would be even more furious so the real issue is we all actually know it.

[sonogi]

ME3 was more or less perfectly executed. it didnt have the extraneous stuff of ME2 (mining, pointless bad side missions, etc.), which led to a very streamlined experience. every side mission felt big. the combat is way improved, the graphics cant even be compared, and the game has ridiculous value. ive already put at least 100 hours into it, and i still wanna do 2 more playthroughs and more multiplayer. easily worth the 60 bucks. this makes a 90+% game.

i really liked the endings, but this is my own opinion. there's no way anyone sane would grade ME3 poorly because they didnt like the ending. in truth, like it or not, the ending was well executed.

[Embrosil]

sonogi wrote...

ME3 was more or less perfectly executed. it didnt have the extraneous stuff of ME2 (mining, pointless bad side missions, etc.), which led to a very streamlined experience. every side mission felt big. the combat is way improved, the graphics cant even be compared, and the game has ridiculous value. ive already put at least 100 hours into it, and i still wanna do 2 more playthroughs and more multiplayer. easily worth the 60 bucks. this makes a 90+% game.

i really liked the endings, but this is my own opinion. there's no way anyone sane would grade ME3 poorly because they didnt like the ending. in truth, like it or not, the ending was well executed.

Oh yes, select three colors, greatest ending ever. Hmm, maybe Bioware should have it patented.

[LinksOcarina]

Embrosil wrote...

sonogi wrote...

ME3 was more or less perfectly executed. it didnt have the extraneous stuff of ME2 (mining, pointless bad side missions, etc.), which led to a very streamlined experience. every side mission felt big. the combat is way improved, the graphics cant even be compared, and the game has ridiculous value. ive already put at least 100 hours into it, and i still wanna do 2 more playthroughs and more multiplayer. easily worth the 60 bucks. this makes a 90+% game.

i really liked the endings, but this is my own opinion. there's no way anyone sane would grade ME3 poorly because they didnt like the ending. in truth, like it or not, the ending was well executed.

Oh yes, select three colors, greatest ending ever. Hmm, maybe Bioware should have it patented.

Better than selecting two colors in Mass Effect 1....

Or two colors in KOTOR....

Or nothing in Baldurs Gate...

[IamShepardsinflamedsenseofBetrayal]

Please bioware i dont need a happy ending. Sacrifice is key concept of the entire game. But atleast give me some sort of explanation of the ending because it simply made no goddamn sense!

[Verlidiane]

IamShepardsinflamedsenseofBetrayal wrote...

Please bioware i dont need a happy ending. Sacrifice is a key concept of the entire game. But at least give me some sort of explanation of the ending because it simply made no goddamn sense!

Seconded. I went into the game expecting Shepard to die in the end, but I also expected the end to make sense and have a sense of closure. The current state of the ending.... just....dosen't.