451 réponses à ce sujet

[Akka le Vil]

Yeah, yeah

Blind fanboyism, how to distort reality to only see what you want.
Man, Bioware didn't had to look very far to imagine indoctrination. They got examples all around the forum.

[Abirn]

See sig. THe entire industry is corrupt to the core. Videogamers will continue to suffer until we have actual reviews they can depend on.

[LinksOcarina]

Akka le Vil wrote...

Yeah, yeah

Blind fanboyism, how to distort reality to only see what you want.
Man, Bioware didn't had to look very far to imagine indoctrination. They got examples all around the forum.

I should know better to not feed a troll like yourself, but i'm content with whatever you think about me. I'll just leave it at that.

Modifié par LinksOcarina, 16 mars 2012 - 08:55 .

[Mighty_BOB_cnc]

LinksOcarina wrote...

Getorex wrote...

Joker1117 wrote...

Not everyone buys games for the endings. Shocking, but it's true. The rest of ME3 greatly makes up for the ending, and that's what those critic reviews reflect. The story means a lot to me too, sure, but there's no way the last <1% is going to have a big influence on my overall opinion on the game when the rest kicks ass.

I addressed this earlier.  Some people come into a game as dillitantes who don't give a crap for story, don't care for character, don't invest anything but a few minutes of time to run-and-gun, FPS style.  Cool.  Go for it.  But ME was NEVER mainly designed nor advertised nor sold as a run-and-gun mindless game.  It was intended and sold to be something far more.  Something far different. 

My 100% HONEST reviews of ME3, unlike paid hacks ("professionals") has always stated that if you don't know or care about the series story and universe and just want to run-and-gun, then ME3 fits the bill fine, like Modern Warfare or Call of Duty or Crysis2, etc.  If you actually CARE about the story, got involved in the story both emotionally and imaginatively, then you will NOT like the game as it renders EVERYTHING (literally) you did in 1, 2, AND 3 up to the very end, moot.  No matter what choices you made, no matter whether you were paragon or renegade or mix of the two, no matter who you saved, who you killed, who you allied to, no matter resources you collect, no matter what mods you make to weapons, no matter what abilities you setup for yourself and squadmates, it all comes to nothing.  It ALL comes to the same end with just a choice as to color of explosions.  That's it.  The entire series wiped in an instant.  No need to import a Shepard at all so the face issue is of no account.  Start from scratch or import a beloved Shepard from previous games it all comes to the same steaming pile of crap in the end. 

THAT is an honest review.

So is this one, wether you like it or not. 

That's the one you wrote right? 

[if answer == yes then print "Thanks for linking it after you were talking about it" elseif answer == no then print "ignore me"]

[oblivionenss]

Hmmmmmm, will get this game on monday but this worries me, if what you guys says is true they are doing a set up for future games in the series am i correct?

If so I am disappointed the meaning of an ending to a story is to get closure and questions answered, not more questions and stuff........

And now if i get this much disappointment I have seen on the forum I will give up on Bioware, after DA 2 I don't have much feelings left for this company.

[LinksOcarina]

Mighty_BOB_cnc wrote...

LinksOcarina wrote...

Getorex wrote...

Joker1117 wrote...

Not everyone buys games for the endings. Shocking, but it's true. The rest of ME3 greatly makes up for the ending, and that's what those critic reviews reflect. The story means a lot to me too, sure, but there's no way the last <1% is going to have a big influence on my overall opinion on the game when the rest kicks ass.

I addressed this earlier.  Some people come into a game as dillitantes who don't give a crap for story, don't care for character, don't invest anything but a few minutes of time to run-and-gun, FPS style.  Cool.  Go for it.  But ME was NEVER mainly designed nor advertised nor sold as a run-and-gun mindless game.  It was intended and sold to be something far more.  Something far different. 

My 100% HONEST reviews of ME3, unlike paid hacks ("professionals") has always stated that if you don't know or care about the series story and universe and just want to run-and-gun, then ME3 fits the bill fine, like Modern Warfare or Call of Duty or Crysis2, etc.  If you actually CARE about the story, got involved in the story both emotionally and imaginatively, then you will NOT like the game as it renders EVERYTHING (literally) you did in 1, 2, AND 3 up to the very end, moot.  No matter what choices you made, no matter whether you were paragon or renegade or mix of the two, no matter who you saved, who you killed, who you allied to, no matter resources you collect, no matter what mods you make to weapons, no matter what abilities you setup for yourself and squadmates, it all comes to nothing.  It ALL comes to the same end with just a choice as to color of explosions.  That's it.  The entire series wiped in an instant.  No need to import a Shepard at all so the face issue is of no account.  Start from scratch or import a beloved Shepard from previous games it all comes to the same steaming pile of crap in the end. 

THAT is an honest review.

So is this one, wether you like it or not. 

That's the one you wrote right? 

[if answer == yes then print "Thanks for linking it after you were talking about it" elseif answer == no then print "ignore me"]

Yes, its the one I wrote. I didn't think I needed to say so though because I am fairly open about being a contributer for a review site. My apologies.

Modifié par LinksOcarina, 16 mars 2012 - 09:07 .

[Getorex]

MelfinaofOutlawStar wrote...

Except they stripped down a lot of the RPG elements. Dialog options were the most notable change. It became a third person cover-based action shooter pretty darn fast.

Yes.  What dialog was available was better than much of what came before (exception with Ashely at Citadel commons when conversation awkwardly jumps from talking about her father to "I can't think about anything but you Ash".  Huh?  Nice seqway!)

The problem is a LOT of the good dialog was passive.  You WATCHED it happen, didn't have anything to do with what it was or how it went.  In ME3 you became MUCH more of a viewer rather than a participant.  The ending was the worst expression of this. 

Plus the ONE ending proves Casey Hudson to be a LIAR.  Repeatedly state that the ending with be different based upon the choices you make in 1, 2, and 3.  No.  The end, the one single end with 3 different colors, nullifies every choice made.  Nothing you do changes the end.  The end violates various coda from the entire series as well.

So.  Casey Hudson a LIAR.  "Writers" (I use that term advisedly) don't even know their own game coda so they violate it at whim in the end.  The slap a half-assed ending on that is disjointed, hallucinagenic, illogical on its face to boot.

Epic FAIL.

Modifié par Getorex, 16 mars 2012 - 09:22 .

[Getorex]

oblivionenss wrote...

Hmmmmmm, will get this game on monday but this worries me, if what you guys says is true they are doing a set up for future games in the series am i correct?

If so I am disappointed the meaning of an ending to a story is to get closure and questions answered, not more questions and stuff........

And now if i get this much disappointment I have seen on the forum I will give up on Bioware, after DA 2 I don't have much feelings left for this company.

There are no more stories to tell because the ONE ending killed everyone.  Period.  Everyone is dead.  There is no point to any DLC for ME3 because it doesn't change the ending either.  You get funneled down without any choice to one ending: dead.  All dead.

[Craigonator]

the Ending makes or Breaks a game.

[Mighty_BOB_cnc]

LinksOcarina wrote...
Yes, its the one I wrote. I didn't think I needed to say so though because I am fairly open about being a contributer for a review site. My apologies.

I figured as much, but thought I would double check just to be compleely certain.

Getorex wrote...

oblivionenss wrote...

Hmmmmmm,
will get this game on monday but this worries me, if what you guys says
is true they are doing a set up for future games in the series am i
correct?

If so I am disappointed the meaning of an ending to a
story is to get closure and questions answered, not more questions and
stuff........

And now if i get this much disappointment I have
seen on the forum I will give up on Bioware, after DA 2 I don't have
much feelings left for this company.

There are no more
stories to tell because the ONE ending killed everyone.  Period. 
Everyone is dead.  There is no point to any DLC for ME3 because it
doesn't change the ending either.  You get funneled down without any
choice to one ending: dead.  All dead.

I believe Hudson said that if they do more, they will take place during ME3 or between ME2 and ME3.  So yeah there really is no more "future" for the ME universe, just prequels and concurrent stories.


-edit- Fixed a typo.

Modifié par Mighty_BOB_cnc, 17 mars 2012 - 12:47 .

[Nykara]

Nightsider2169 wrote...

It's simple... The ending wasn't bad. It was beautifully written and sets the stage perfectly for future releases.

You all could have saving yourselves some stress if you'd simply paid attention to the hints and clues scattered thru out the trilogy.

Mass Effect 3 IS the best in the series BY FAR. Loved all of it 100%. Of course I paid attention to the story as a whole and I put the pieces together. Play thru all three again and pay CLOSE attention... You'll understand, and if you still don't, then once Biowares intended plan goes into effect you'll be kicking yourselves and we'll be there to tell you we told you so lol.

THIS exactly! 

[Craigonator]

Stanley Woo wrote...

EJ107 wrote...

But would you give a game with a terrible ending 100/100 and say it was a fantastic ending to the series? I'd deduct at least 10/100 from the score if the ending was as bad as mass effect 3's. 

Would I? Maybe. Would you? Obviously not. But would that reviewer you're talking about? Obviously he would and he did. Remember that the review you're reading isn't your opinion (though yuou might agree and disagree with different parts of it), it is the opinion of someone else who potentially does this as a job.

It doesn't mean the reviewer is right or wrong. You just decide whether you agree with him or not.

 The reviewers for major websites drive the market.   The reviewers who gave good reviews didnt take into account the audience they were writing the review for which is negligence on thier part.  If they did I suspect that it would be a completely different story.  look at the amazon reviews and the metacritic reviews.  They completely counteract  the good scores.  Who is wrong.  the 20 or so reviewers or the several thousand fans of the ME Fans that want blood for what has been done. 

[Getorex]

Nykara wrote...

Nightsider2169 wrote...

It's simple... The ending wasn't bad. It was beautifully written and sets the stage perfectly for future releases.

You all could have saving yourselves some stress if you'd simply paid attention to the hints and clues scattered thru out the trilogy.

Mass Effect 3 IS the best in the series BY FAR. Loved all of it 100%. Of course I paid attention to the story as a whole and I put the pieces together. Play thru all three again and pay CLOSE attention... You'll understand, and if you still don't, then once Biowares intended plan goes into effect you'll be kicking yourselves and we'll be there to tell you we told you so lol.

THIS exactly! 

I paid close attention, read the books, did all the DLC.  I also read the developer notes.  It's over.  The entire series is terminated by the ending to ME3.  No point to pre-ME3 ending DLC because it changes nothing at all.  No point in running your various Shepards through ME3 either because they all end in the same explosion. 

The ending wasn't only inconsistent with the entire series and books, it is inconsistent with ME3 too.  They retconned things from ME2 AND had the gall to retcon from ME3! 

[alikilar]

i dont think they look at ME3 as conntected to the other games they think of it as a seperate game in itself so i understand all the reviews.

[BaladasDemnevanni]

Craigonator wrote...

The reviewers for major websites drive the market.   The reviewers who gave good reviews didnt take into account the audience they were writing the review for which is negligence on thier part.  If they did I suspect that it would be a completely different story.  look at the amazon reviews and the metacritic reviews.  They completely counteract  the good scores.  Who is wrong.  the 20 or so reviewers or the several thousand fans of the ME Fans that want blood for what has been done. 

I haven't looked at the amazon reviews, but I'm curious as to how many actually decided to discuss the multiplayer at all.

[Craigonator]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Thousands of fans are angry because they trusted in some site, They trusted in EA, They trusted in Bioware.

They trusted that no one at any of these companies would ever make a mistake or create something that the players don't like, ever? While flattering, that appears to be an unreasonable expectation. Holding us to a higher standard, I can understand and am firmly in support of, since I believe we do make high-quality games. Holding us to a perfect standard, on the other hand, I wouldn't recommend, since no one can possibly live up to something like that.

Stanely Woo, you make some good points but this was not a little mistake or even a moderate sized mistake.  This was an epic mistake on Bioware and what they did with the ending.  It seems like you guys had an impending deadline and had no choice but to throw something together.  It also seems that you guys completely missed the target audience.  I know of many people that feel so betrayed by the ending that they really don't want anything to do with Mass Effect Again.  I know I am one of them.  For example I was unfortunately revolted by the sight of the cinematic trailer.  something I loved now destroyed by broken promises.

[Craigonator]

alikilar wrote...

i dont think they look at ME3 as conntected to the other games they think of it as a seperate game in itself so i understand all the reviews.

I suspect that this is where the problem lies as well.  No other game is like Mass Effect.  I suspect that the reviewers are still on the old way of thinking.

[Akka le Vil]

LinksOcarina wrote...

I should know better to not feed a troll like yourself, but i'm content with whatever you think about me. I'll just leave it at that.

Man, someone who denies documented facts and ignore obvious evidences calls me a troll ? Reminds me the "debates" with Creationists.

Craigonator wrote...

the Ending makes or Breaks a game.

I wouldn't go as far as saying it "makes or breaks", but it sure have a LOT of influence on how you'll remember it.

Modifié par Akka le Vil, 16 mars 2012 - 09:49 .

[Nykara]

Akka le Vil wrote...

Yeah, yeah

Blind fanboyism, how to distort reality to only see what you want.
Man, Bioware didn't had to look very far to imagine indoctrination. They got examples all around the forum.

Are you serious? I mean really? The evidence is there all over the place about the fact that Bioware actually has good writters who may have half a clue of what they are doing. Firstly they created the -entire- Mass Effect universe with characters that where real and stole our hearts. Secondly they also made the KOTOR storyline which was, on my first play through totally freakin awesome with that revealation near the end. A revealation however that had hints about it throughout the game for those who were paying attention.

Bioware has a plan, they know what they are doing. Sit back and enjoy the ride.

[Getorex]

BaladasDemnevanni wrote...

Craigonator wrote...

The reviewers for major websites drive the market.   The reviewers who gave good reviews didnt take into account the audience they were writing the review for which is negligence on thier part.  If they did I suspect that it would be a completely different story.  look at the amazon reviews and the metacritic reviews.  They completely counteract  the good scores.  Who is wrong.  the 20 or so reviewers or the several thousand fans of the ME Fans that want blood for what has been done. 

I haven't looked at the amazon reviews, but I'm curious as to how many actually decided to discuss the multiplayer at all.

None, except to the extent that it is BULLCRAP that you HAVE to play the MP game to move your "galactic readiness" above 50%.  Not everyone wants to, or can, do MP.  But then again, it is irrelevant because even if you tick up your galactic readiness to 100% and do EVERY side mission and find EVERY military resource and get a good outcome to ALL the issues (Krogan-Turian-Salarian, Quarian-Geth, etc) then you still get funneled to the ONE ending with everyone and everything destroyed and DEAD.

[Getorex]

Nykara wrote...

Akka le Vil wrote...

Yeah, yeah

Blind fanboyism, how to distort reality to only see what you want.
Man, Bioware didn't had to look very far to imagine indoctrination. They got examples all around the forum.

Are you serious? I mean really? The evidence is there all over the place about the fact that Bioware actually has good writters who may have half a clue of what they are doing. Firstly they created the -entire- Mass Effect universe with characters that where real and stole our hearts. Secondly they also made the KOTOR storyline which was, on my first play through totally freakin awesome with that revealation near the end. A revealation however that had hints about it throughout the game for those who were paying attention.

Bioware has a plan, they know what they are doing. Sit back and enjoy the ride.

No, they don't have "good writers who know what they're doing".  Many of the good people bailed after ME1 when EA came along and Hudson sold out.  More bailed after ME2 or got directed to other CRAP.  Another writer was diverted from ME3 in the middle!  You do NOT change writers, EVER, in a coherent series.  You keep the same writers so that it is self-consistent and coherent.  You do not mix and match writers on the false belief that one writer is as good as another.  No.  That is not true. 

You also don't assume that anyone who can tell the difference between a noun and a verb is a writer.

[Mighty_BOB_cnc]

LinksOcarina wrote...
Yes, its the one I wrote. I didn't think I needed to say so though because I am fairly open about being a contributer for a review site. My apologies.

Been at work, managed to read a few paragraphs but got busy.  I'll read the rest when I get home.

[yearsago]

Obrusnine wrote...

Why is it that not a single one I have seen with a review has even mentioned the terrible ending. I mean seriously, wtf???

Adam Sessler in on X-Play literally said "this is how you end a trilogy!"

That one made me laugh, really hard.

Most either 'didn't play all the way through or like the guy from Ars Technica, assumed there were other endings.

[Akka le Vil]

Nykara wrote...

Are you serious? I mean really? The evidence is there all over the place about the fact that Bioware actually has good writters who may have half a clue of what they are doing. Firstly they created the -entire- Mass Effect universe with characters that where real and stole our hearts. Secondly they also made the KOTOR storyline which was, on my first play through totally freakin awesome with that revealation near the end. A revealation however that had hints about it throughout the game for those who were paying attention.

Bioware has a plan, they know what they are doing. Sit back and enjoy the ride.

Err...

Did you mixed this thread with another perchance ?
This thread is about the disconnect between the "professionnal reviewers" and the public, and my answer was about how ridiculous it is to pretend such a disconnect doesn't exist, and such a disconnect is genuine and not motivated by business.

I'm actually a subscriber of the "indoctrination theory", so I tend to think that Bioware will release the "real" ending later.
I also recognize that Bioware has great writers, BUT samely I recognize that they aren't necessarily at their best when it comes to endings, to say the least. Let's check :

Throne of Bhaal : epic ending, the best one so far, bringing closure and the greatest feeling of completedness.
Jade Empire, DAO, HotU : adequate endings, bring closure but felt a bit generic and predictable.
KotOR, BG1 : ridiculous  endings that amount to little more than a "gratz, you win" as soon as the last boss is dead. Seriously.
NWN : bad ending due to complete lack of closure.
DA2  : meh ending, no closure, felt more like a bait to buy the next game than an actual ending, without having the ME strong narrative continuity to justify it.
ME1, ME2; SoU : they so openly mean "to be continued" that they can't really be considered endings at all, so they are a bit apart.

Nothing terribly spectacular here when it comes to endings. Not horrible on average, but not that great either.

[theauthority]

At least Dragon Age: Origins and Jade Empire's endings didn't leave me totally baffled.
DA:O outcome would be the same (new ruler/rulers, Blight defeated) but it accounted for all your choices, even the tiniest ones; sure, a slideshow is easier to handle than a full-fledged ending with cinematics and all, but it gave a sense of closure nonetheless (even Awakening delivers it, to an extent).
Jade Empire ending was ok, I just didn't like the fact that a single choice could invalidate a full Open or Closed Hand playthrough, something very similar to what I experienced with ME3's ending because I really felt like I was throwing away all the choices I made so far.
I finished ME3 last night after playing ME1 and 2, all of them in 10 days to have a full Shepard to import (unemployment makes up for a long, unpaid holiday with a lot of time to kill).
I wasn't given much to really understand why everything boggles down to three choices. To me, the ending doesn't provide enough info or reason to accept it as it is. Ambiguity is cool but a "WTF?" expression while staring at the credits is not. Rather than ugly, I though the ending was incomplete, I had no means to understand why it was this limiting.
Still, it is not enough to say ME3 is garbage. Up until setting foot in the last stage it was like reading a manual on how to create a monumental, emotional videogame. Problem is, as it is now, I can't bring myself to play it again. Hell, I can't even rate it, I still can't figure out if the ending was good or bad (maybe I'm still in the "denial" phase XD).