131 réponses à ce sujet

[Subject M]

Final bump before utter and total oblivion, promise.

[Kargsure]

Having only just read this (its hard to keep up with the speed of the forums right now), I just want to say the OP is very well written, and unlike some of the posts here, expresses the issue without resorting to insults and the like. Well Done.

[Random citizen]

Kargsure wrote...

Having only just read this (its hard to keep up with the speed of the forums right now), I just want to say the OP is very well written, and unlike some of the posts here, expresses the issue without resorting to insults and the like. Well Done.

Yeah, the negativity of some posts are just toxic. Then its good to see constructive and respectful threads.

[SmellyMetal]

"Your choices mattered and affected just about every mission in the entire game, all of which culminated in the final battle - where the resources (earned via your decision) determined success or failure."

--->
Did you even play the game?

I'm just saying this because I don't know if you noticed it, but even when you get the best "ending", it's still the same, the whole galaxy blows up.

Shepard does more damage than the reapers ever...what's the difference? Did you get different explosion colors than the 3 we all got?

[The Bastus]

Absolutely support this.

[SmellyMetal]

N7 Spectre525 wrote...
I've met quite a few people over xbox live that first tried Mass Effect 3 when the free demo hit. Most of them bought the game not having invested years in the series like most of BSN, and nearly everyone of them loved the game....until the last 10 minutes. I talked to my bud who works at gamestop and he's telling me people have been returning Mass Effect 3 along with 1 and 2. Some people are just that pissed. It's not just the forums man.

I've just returned all my Mass Effect  Xbox 360 copies this afternoon. Unfortunately, stlil have some on PC that I can't get rid off, unless I'd delete my Steam and Origin accounts. You have no idea on how much that pains me.

Modifié par SmellyMetal, 21 mars 2012 - 08:34 .

[ragnorok87]

gatorboy128 wrote...

Bleh, I read a few lines of your post and moved on. I haven't even beaten the game and can already tell it's terrible. Every other mission is simply a mini-map where you move from one side to the other with a different "horde" of enemies trying to stop you, or protecting objective "A" from destruction for a set amount of time. It's a crude ploy to make the game longer without actually putting any content in. It took years for Bioware to create Mass Effect 1 and Dragon Age 1, and only a couple of years to destroy both franchises.
Pure unadulterated mass-appeal is what these games have boiled down to, with a big "**** you" to the fans who actually played the first games and loved them for what they were.

well said and same goes to thread creator. i agree with both of you. this game was designed for casual gamers inmind.

[ragnorok87]

SmellyMetal wrote...

N7 Spectre525 wrote...
I've met quite a few people over xbox live that first tried Mass Effect 3 when the free demo hit. Most of them bought the game not having invested years in the series like most of BSN, and nearly everyone of them loved the game....until the last 10 minutes. I talked to my bud who works at gamestop and he's telling me people have been returning Mass Effect 3 along with 1 and 2. Some people are just that pissed. It's not just the forums man.

I've just returned all my Mass Effect  Xbox 360 copies this afternoon. Unfortunately, stlil have some on PC that I can't get rid off, unless I'd delete my Steam and Origin accounts. You have no idea on how much that pains me.

good for you sir. i should also return my copies immediately. but i am still holding the line and praying to god to save mass effect. i will wait until the dlc or word of an exppansion. however if it turns out that they will not fix the ending i shall immediately return all of my mass effect copies and not only that but all ea and bioware products to a gamestore or pawn shop and video record it and put in on the net and send it to bioware and ea. not only that i shall boycott ea and bioware and encourage others to do so. when bioware dies out they will have justly earned it.

[teh_619]

They aren't listening bro.

[Frostmourne86]

I find it funny that people are basically rehashing the same arguments about ME 2 as ME 3, or heck, the entire series. In real life, stuff happens that no one can truly prepare for, and sometimes those events happen regardless of what you did before it.

People began to complain that games weren't real, they didn't have weight to them in regards to decisions and endings...and then when a game series comes around that is more realistic, people complain that it's not what they wanted.

True story: The Rana Thanopsis encounter. I saved her in ME 1....never did I think that would turn out that way. Choices have consequences, and sometimes Life still kicks you in the teeth.

[Random citizen]

They might see OP and take notice. Its worth trying.

[abaris]

Frostmourne86 wrote...

I find it funny that people are basically rehashing the same arguments about ME 2 as ME 3, or heck, the entire series. In real life, stuff happens that no one can truly prepare for, and sometimes those events happen regardless of what you did before it.

The realism vs fantasy argument.

Just as old as the art argument.

There is no realism involved since logic gets blown out the window anyway.

It would have been pretty simple to create different endings.

1) Screw up royally and you get the opportunity to sacrifice yourself by blowing up the universe in RGB.
2) Screw up mildly and you get the opportunity to not blow up the universe. Maybe you die, maybe you don't. Depends on your actions.
3) The realism part if you so wish: Do everything right and just get away with averting the immediate threat with the prospect of the war raging on for some centuries. Because that's what would happen in something like a real world and with that kind of threat.

[Random citizen]

abaris wrote...

Frostmourne86 wrote...

I find it funny that people are basically rehashing the same arguments about ME 2 as ME 3, or heck, the entire series. In real life, stuff happens that no one can truly prepare for, and sometimes those events happen regardless of what you did before it.

The realism vs fantasy argument.

Just as old as the art argument.

There is no realism involved since logic gets blown out the window anyway.

It would have been pretty simple to create different endings.

1) Screw up royally and you get the opportunity to sacrifice yourself by blowing up the universe in RGB.
2) Screw up mildly and you get the opportunity to not blow up the universe. Maybe you die, maybe you don't. Depends on your actions.
3) The realism part if you so wish: Do everything right and just get away with averting the immediate threat with the prospect of the war raging on for some centuries. Because that's what would happen in something like a real world and with that kind of threat.

or

1. Screw up royally and the reaper wins when your weak armade reaches the sol system.
2. Screw up a bit and get RGB
3. Do everything right and solve the problem followed by walking away with your life and meeting up with your team, survivors and LI on the smoking ruin called Earth.

Modifié par Random citizen, 22 mars 2012 - 09:06 .

[Kidd]

Nicely written Subject M, doubt I could write it as well. Am I silly for being a little proud you're also Swedish? =)

pkmn wrote...

You people whining about your choices not mattering.

Did you not play the game? Your choices mattered

That stops at the ending though. I can see things like "you threw a person a ball" -> "that person is holding a ball" just fine. But I stop understanding how things work when I try to see how "[race] joined the fleet" + "Diana Allers report straight from the Normandy to increase troop morale" equals "green beams of space magic on the Citadel now available."

The only consequence to your previous choices found in the ending is purely through game play mechanics (EMS), not through the plot itself. BioWare games tend to marry the two perfectly, with vistas, game play, music and writing alike coming together to form an incredible whole. The ending leaves you with only vistas and game play, however.

BlacJAC74 wrote...

i love these threads, they assume they're talking for the majority, when they most certainly aren't. I disagree with your feelings, as do others and when you factor in only a small percentage of people use this site compared to the actual units sold, then, again, you most certainly aren't talking for the majority.

I do believe we had someone well versed in statistics that could extrapolate that the test group was big enough, indeed giving a proper ratio for the fanbase at large with a plus/minus of some 82 or 84 persons - don't remember the exact number. Someone remember what thread that might have been? 

Modifié par KiddDaBeauty, 22 mars 2012 - 10:22 .

[sillyrobot]

pkmn wrote...

You people whining about your choices not mattering.

Did you not play the game? Your choices mattered and affected just about every mission in the entire game, all of which culminated in the final battle - where the resources (earned via your decision) determined success or failure.

I'm not quite sure what you people were expecting. An ending that awkwardly mentions every single decision you made over the course of 3 games? That's a little unrealistic.

You just need to accept that you aren't happy with the ending. Demanding that Bioware changes its endings is about as anti-art as you can get.

More likely an ending where you previous decisions (like unitng Geth / Quarian) weren't negated by the ending -- by killing all the Geth.

Or maybe an ending where the protagonist isn't directly responsible for the death of trillions and throwing the galaxy back into a dark age whilst making a choice between (a) assaulting and forcibly modifying every sentient in the galaxy removing the diversity the character has celebrated up to this point, ( commit mass genocide against a peaceful race that's just been brought back into the community and obliterate all high-tech, or © "control" the reapers.

Synthesis was Saren's choice and rejected in ME1.  Control was TIM's choice and rejected in ME2 and ME3.  Destroy has too high a cost. 


Oh -- and preferably an ending without space magic.

[Random citizen]

sillyrobot wrote...

pkmn wrote...

You people whining about your choices not mattering.

Did you not play the game? Your choices mattered and affected just about every mission in the entire game, all of which culminated in the final battle - where the resources (earned via your decision) determined success or failure.

I'm not quite sure what you people were expecting. An ending that awkwardly mentions every single decision you made over the course of 3 games? That's a little unrealistic.

You just need to accept that you aren't happy with the ending. Demanding that Bioware changes its endings is about as anti-art as you can get.

More likely an ending where you previous decisions (like unitng Geth / Quarian) weren't negated by the ending -- by killing all the Geth.

Or maybe an ending where the protagonist isn't directly responsible for the death of trillions and throwing the galaxy back into a dark age whilst making a choice between (a) assaulting and forcibly modifying every sentient in the galaxy removing the diversity the character has celebrated up to this point, ( commit mass genocide against a peaceful race that's just been brought back into the community and obliterate all high-tech, or © "control" the reapers.

Synthesis was Saren's choice and rejected in ME1.  Control was TIM's choice and rejected in ME2 and ME3.  Destroy has too high a cost. 


Oh -- and preferably an ending without space magic.

Yeah, I am bothered by the values and message Bioware communicates with the ending.

[Subject M]

Random citizen wrote...

sillyrobot wrote...

pkmn wrote...

You people whining about your choices not mattering.

Did you not play the game? Your choices mattered and affected just about every mission in the entire game, all of which culminated in the final battle - where the resources (earned via your decision) determined success or failure.

I'm not quite sure what you people were expecting. An ending that awkwardly mentions every single decision you made over the course of 3 games? That's a little unrealistic.

You just need to accept that you aren't happy with the ending. Demanding that Bioware changes its endings is about as anti-art as you can get.

More likely an ending where you previous decisions (like unitng Geth / Quarian) weren't negated by the ending -- by killing all the Geth.

Or maybe an ending where the protagonist isn't directly responsible for the death of trillions and throwing the galaxy back into a dark age whilst making a choice between (a) assaulting and forcibly modifying every sentient in the galaxy removing the diversity the character has celebrated up to this point, ( commit mass genocide against a peaceful race that's just been brought back into the community and obliterate all high-tech, or © "control" the reapers.

Synthesis was Saren's choice and rejected in ME1.  Control was TIM's choice and rejected in ME2 and ME3.  Destroy has too high a cost. 


Oh -- and preferably an ending without space magic.

Yeah, I am bothered by the values and message Bioware communicates with the ending.

Yeah, I know what you mean. But Idon't think it was their intent really. They were probably rushed had some ideas that sounded cool and "new" but forgot some really important stuffin the process. Long hours of work plus too little sleep or  time to think things through can do that do you

Modifié par Subject M, 24 mars 2012 - 01:29 .

[Random citizen]

Subject M wrote...

Random citizen wrote...

sillyrobot wrote...

pkmn wrote...

You people whining about your choices not mattering.

Did you not play the game? Your choices mattered and affected just about every mission in the entire game, all of which culminated in the final battle - where the resources (earned via your decision) determined success or failure.

I'm not quite sure what you people were expecting. An ending that awkwardly mentions every single decision you made over the course of 3 games? That's a little unrealistic.

You just need to accept that you aren't happy with the ending. Demanding that Bioware changes its endings is about as anti-art as you can get.

More likely an ending where you previous decisions (like unitng Geth / Quarian) weren't negated by the ending -- by killing all the Geth.

Or maybe an ending where the protagonist isn't directly responsible for the death of trillions and throwing the galaxy back into a dark age whilst making a choice between (a) assaulting and forcibly modifying every sentient in the galaxy removing the diversity the character has celebrated up to this point, ( commit mass genocide against a peaceful race that's just been brought back into the community and obliterate all high-tech, or © "control" the reapers.

Synthesis was Saren's choice and rejected in ME1.  Control was TIM's choice and rejected in ME2 and ME3.  Destroy has too high a cost. 


Oh -- and preferably an ending without space magic.

Yeah, I am bothered by the values and message Bioware communicates with the ending.

Yeah, I know what you mean. But Idon't think it was their intent really. They were probably rushed had some ideas that sounded cool and "new" but forgot some really important stuffin the process. Long hours of work plus too little sleep or  time to think things through can do that do you

I agree that it was probably not thought through.

[Ragepower]

What many don't realize is that there really is not a "Bioware" to listen to our concerns. When the company was purchased by EA they ceased to be "Bioware". Many of the same developers and artists have moved on to other companies, while some of the more influential members are indeed still with the "company" they ultimately work for Electronic Arts. This means that while Bioware had a great relationship with their consumers previously, EA can go ahead and ignore your concerns and plow forward raking in the money. This is what EA is known for, and up until the last few years was extremely successful in bringing in large quantities of profit for the company. A. Purchase well known brand name. B. Use brand properties and name to release titles as quickly as possible. C. Profit heavily... D. Eventually consumers burn out on the product and move on... E. Find new brand name and retire used up brand.

In all honesty this could be the last "great" property released by this developement studio under the Bioware name. Look at Dragon Age II and realize that is primarily what you are going to get going forward.

EA is notorious for this practice, but most of the large corporations in this industry use this practice. Activision, EA, Midway, THQ, Atari, Sega... How many of those names still matter? Look at Bethesda, Take 2, Blizzard, etc.. and those studios will ALWAYS profit, but perhaps not as quickly or as much as Activision and EA ultimately do (EA has been losing money for quite some time now... if they don't change this attitude and mindset...someday they might become a Midway).

[BeefoTheBold]

Dear Bioware,

Please stop thinking we're all idiots and that this was the "artistic vision" and the endings you really wanted. Just about any moron out there can see that one of two things happened:

1. You ran out of time or budget and had to ship a game with endings 180 degrees different from what you promised your customer base

2. You deliberately held back the real endings and are holding them hostage to charge for them as DLC.

The first possibility is incompetence and the second is greed. Neither paint you in a flattering light and the Bioware of five years ago, that many of supported and loved far above any other developer out there and considered to be the gold standard for RPG games of which all others could only hope to aspire to, would be ashamed of the way you're treating us right now.

Nobody is perfect and, for the most part, you have a fanbase that is still in love with you and aching to fall into your glorious embrace once more if only you would go back to being the company that you once were.

Admit you were wrong. Apologize. Promise to fix it free of charge.

Do these things, and do them SINCERELY and without PASSIVE AGGRESSION, and I'd wager vast sums of money that probably 90% of the problems your customers have with you right now would go away.

Don't do them and you're going to lose customers. It's that simple. This isn't a complicated problem. The solution isn't complicated.

As always, I'll be hoping that you do the right thing.

Beefo The Bold

[Random citizen]

Ragepower wrote...

What many don't realize is that there really is not a "Bioware" to listen to our concerns. When the company was purchased by EA they ceased to be "Bioware". Many of the same developers and artists have moved on to other companies, while some of the more influential members are indeed still with the "company" they ultimately work for Electronic Arts. This means that while Bioware had a great relationship with their consumers previously, EA can go ahead and ignore your concerns and plow forward raking in the money. This is what EA is known for, and up until the last few years was extremely successful in bringing in large quantities of profit for the company. A. Purchase well known brand name. B. Use brand properties and name to release titles as quickly as possible. C. Profit heavily... D. Eventually consumers burn out on the product and move on... E. Find new brand name and retire used up brand.

In all honesty this could be the last "great" property released by this developement studio under the Bioware name. Look at Dragon Age II and realize that is primarily what you are going to get going forward.

EA is notorious for this practice, but most of the large corporations in this industry use this practice. Activision, EA, Midway, THQ, Atari, Sega... How many of those names still matter? Look at Bethesda, Take 2, Blizzard, etc.. and those studios will ALWAYS profit, but perhaps not as quickly or as much as Activision and EA ultimately do (EA has been losing money for quite some time now... if they don't change this attitude and mindset...someday they might become a Midway).

Very sad reading. I hope it is not true. I hope there is stil hope.

[Subject M]

There is still hope.

[ringdrossel]

Well spoken. I hope this does not fall on deaf ears but is taken into consideration. That in the end we won't get just some "clarification" or "closure" but a conclusion that feels good to us who played and loved the trilogy.

[Noelemahc]

Ragepower wrote...

EA is notorious for this practice, but most of the large corporations in this industry use this practice. Activision, EA, Midway, THQ, Atari, Sega... How many of those names still matter? Look at Bethesda, Take 2, Blizzard, etc.. and those studios will ALWAYS profit, but perhaps not as quickly or as much as Activision and EA ultimately do (EA has been losing money for quite some time now... if they don't change this attitude and mindset...someday they might become a Midway).

You're out of date. ActiVision and Blizzard are the same company now that ActiVision has eaten Vivendi who has eaten Sierra who has eaten Blizzard a LONG while back, and their official name has been ActiVision Blizzard for almost a year now. It's just not reflected in the logos because I think they're having a hard time to let go of either spiffy-looking brand (and let me tell you, I can believe them, seeing how hard Blizzard refused to let go of their Silicon & Synapse past). That means ActiVision is sitting on an endless stream of money that are the Blizzard IPs, and, sadly, will probably never die thanks to that.
(And yes, I am sufficiently old to refuse to not capitalize the V in ActiVision, they're about the last ancient non-Japanese game company that hasn't changed their logo in decades)

I find it funny that people are basically rehashing the same arguments
about ME 2 as ME 3, or heck, the entire series. In real life, stuff
happens that no one can truly prepare for, and sometimes those events
happen regardless of what you did before it.

Hey, I liked ME2 and didn't mind its ending. It had a very definite "we're preparing for the BIG THING now" message to it. ME3 was supposed to be that big thing, and it was big right about until Shepard did not get an option to throw the final choice into the offerer's face. (please remember that this is a no-spoiler forum).
That said, you DO have a fourth option, people have discovered you can actually throw yourself off the platform and into space. It's very pretty to look at and somewhat cathartic at that, but isn't recognized by the game as a valid option, sadly =(

Modifié par Noelemahc, 29 mars 2012 - 08:49 .

[CARL_DF90]

Between this issue and the Deception debacle I think that the trust and confidence most fans had for Bioware is shot to hell. It needs to be fixed. Let's see what happens. I'm holding out a modicum of hope yet.