229 réponses à ce sujet

[LOLalaska]

LOLalaska wrote...

So I still am not doing the most damage i could via Lethality since dex is bugged? (360)

360 still bugged?

[rogermao]

well the 360 can't get the dex fix so yes, i guess it still is

[Discobird]

Love-Buzz wrote...

Not sure if you got the data yet, but according to gamebanshee, rapid aim = -0.3 sec aim time

Depends on the weapon.  Some have less, some have more.

[Lightninggus]

this is a bit of a necro but...



according to this shortbows are the same as longbows in the respect that they are a 50/50 split between dex and str (or cunning with lethality):

http://dragonage.gul...p/items/weapons



so longbows would seem better regardless of whether your using cunning or dex. Also the 1.02 patch did not address anything with regular bows (non-crossbows) so i don't believe this is a bug.



also it seems to me like dex would be better using the rapid shot sustained ability. It seems like most people disregard this talent or take it just to move further in the tree, but according to the missing manual it gives 5% attack speed per point of dex...which is quite substantial, and that bonus doubles with master archery.

http://dragonage.gul...ents/rapid_shot



if this information is correct the speed bonus from rapid shot could be pretty ridiculous...



i will build my archer with heavy dex, longbow, most if not all the archery talents and for rogue talents i may get combat stealth and lethality. I'm pretty apathetic about opening boxes so i won't get points in that stuff. I will probably take duelist for one spec, and the other...perhaps assassination for mark to get max arrow of slaying crits, but im not sure.

[AXidenT Gamer]

So how does longbow damage work? I hear cunning + lethality gives more damage, yet Dex is meant to contribute to damage or something? How does it work?



Is it viable for Leliana (in my current playthrough she has a Dex of ~30 and Cunning of ~22) for example at this point to go +2 Dex, +1 Cun per level or vice versa?

[Seraphael]

Lightninggus wrote...

this is a bit of a necro but...

according to this shortbows are the same as longbows in the respect that they are a 50/50 split between dex and str (or cunning with lethality):
http://dragonage.gul...p/items/weapons

Bioware "forgot" to balance the game. As a result we have near useless talents/spells and very overpowered ones. The below semi-official hotfix makes shortbows pure dexterity based (among other things), and is an attempt to make bows/daggers more viable. The link below it is to a archery revamp mod endorsed by Georg Zoller (Bioware), to make archery a viable alternative to other melee.

http://dragonage.gul...rity_hotfix_101
http://www.dragonage...file.php?id=216

This thread is a worthwhile read, I suggest you follow the debate as the recommendations change after posters get more experience with different builds.

[Seraphael]

AXidenT Gamer wrote...

So how does longbow damage work? I hear cunning + lethality gives more damage, yet Dex is meant to contribute to damage or something? How does it work?

Read up on the attributes from the link below:

http://dragonage.wik...wiki/Attributes

[AXidenT Gamer]

So Dexterity and Cunning + Lethality both add to damage. Do they add equal amount of damage, or is one better than the other? (If that is the case would I be right in assuming that that one is Cunning?)



Which build would suit a Bard/Ranger more?

[Seraphael]

AXidenT Gamer wrote...

So Dexterity and Cunning + Lethality both add to damage. Do they add equal amount of damage, or is one better than the other? (If that is the case would I be right in assuming that that one is Cunning?)

Which build would suit a Bard/Ranger more?

Lethality simply makes Cunning replace Strength in terms of calculating damage alone (not attack/accuray). This build suits those who have significant amounts of other talents which rely on Cunning, for instance Bards. Such a Bard will be weaker defensively and offensively (esp. than a hotfix Dexterity/Shortbow archer), but the added potency of the Bard sustained buffs is said to benefit the party sufficiently to outweight the loss of personal power.

The Ranger is more neutral in this regard and the builds do not affect that specializations potency I think. The Assassin Exploit Weakness benefit from added Cunning though.

Modifié par Seraphael, 09 décembre 2009 - 09:53 .

[AXidenT Gamer]

The main downside of the Cunning build is that more arrows will miss, but if the party had the third Bard talent and the Warrior's Rally, that'd be more than made up for, right?

[Seraphael]

AXidenT Gamer wrote...

The main downside of the Cunning build is that more arrows will miss, but if the party had the third Bard talent and the Warrior's Rally, that'd be more than made up for, right?

More misses, less damaging average hits, with a full team the Bard bonus is said to outweight the offensive loss. Warrior's Rally will never make up for the massive loss of personal defence (compared with the pure Dexterity build). But then again, an archer is ranged and doesn't generally need as much defense if you have a tank in the team.

[AXidenT Gamer]

If you go for the Cunning build, is it worth raising your Dex to say 45, just for defence sake, or would you say go all Cunning once you meet talent requirements?

[Asugai2]

After reading through this topic, here is my two cents on archery:



I do not use the hotfix, it makes shortbows better than longbows and enables one attribute builds. Not to mention even more annoying bandit encounters in Denerim.



With the hotfix, the archer character seems pretty straightforward, pick a rogue and pump his dex, add some cunning for combat stealth and willpower for stamina and you're good. Item bonuses and Circle of Magi quest should take care of strength requirement for best leather armor.



My favorite build therefore is the Warrior archer. Champion's talents work perfectly with archer, and surprisingly so, all Reaver talents are usable as well, unlike Templar's or Berserker's. Frigthening Appearance works like Dirty Fighting, so it is quite nice to have. Still, Templar seems like a better choice, even if the mana drain does not work with ranged weapons.



This kind of character uses the Armor of Diligence, which offers great armor and defense and nice bonus to willpower. Master Archer negates the heavy armor attack speed penalty. The stats are split to mostly dexterity, with some into strength for armor requirement, and willpower of course.



This kind of character has no problems with attack rate, armor and defense ratings are quite good, and Disengage/War Cry/Frightening Appearance are used to keep enemies away from you. The downside is that you cannot have the Far Song, since you need the boots of Dilligence to complete the set, but Falon'din's Reach is a wonderful bow likewise.

[T0rin3]

 The 1.02 patch, assuming it can be seen as the final rebalancing of archery (with 50/50 dex/str split for shortbows) has effectively killed the shortbow/dex build. So, it's back to the Cunning/Longbow build now.

As for warrior vs rogue, if you don't need the lockpicking, and you aren't playing a game where stealth is required (such as a solo play through), then warrior is almost an equivalent choice, but certainly not for the ability to equip better armor. Relying on Master Archer (which IMO should be the very last archery talent you take) to equip medium or better armor is pretty silly, especially with how good the light armor is for archery damage output.

Berserker can be used with bows, you just have to activate Berserk while equipping a melee weapon, the same way you use Pinpoint Strikes with Duelist. Berserker/Champion is fine for an archer warrior using light armor, you still get good defense and decent armor, and have Berserk for damage, but really this build has no edge over the rogue in terms of damage output.

When comparing warrior and rogue, the attack/defense bonus from Rally is replaced with the attack/defense from duelist, Berserk gives a flat +8 damage, but Song of Courage gives at least that much damage (albeit a little later in the game) but also gives a bonus to attack and critical % chance. None of the warrior talents help archery really at all, and the lack of stat distribution into cunning means more of a skill burden for the warrior. (not to mention the warrior gets far fewer skill points overall to begin with)

Stat wise, the warrior can put more into strength for physical resistance instead of dex for defense, but really there is no reason to. The rogue has the option of making Cunning a stat dump, improving several things with no real loss to damage output.

I personally cannot see any reason why you would want to play a warrior archer over a rogue archer, the only benefit is that damage from berserk matures earlier than song of courage, but not by much, and the loss of stamina regen cannot be overlooked. Rogue does more damage than a warrior per shot and will have improved critical chance. There is no real reason to use medium or heavy armor over light armor for an archer, Felon's Coat is that good. If Warrior had any talents that actually contributed to the archer experience, then there might be an argument, but they don't.

[Hulk Hsieh]

T0rin3 wrote...

 The 1.02 patch, assuming it can be seen as the final rebalancing of archery (with 50/50 dex/str split for shortbows) has effectively killed the shortbow/dex build. So, it's back to the Cunning/Longbow build now.

I don't see why cun build is better than dex/str build since both add 50% to damage.
And with none-cun build, you can safely pump str for better armor (such as Wade's Dragon Armors) without worrying wasting points on both cun/str.

[Hizoka003]

Hulk Hsieh wrote...

T0rin3 wrote...

 The 1.02 patch, assuming it can be seen as the final rebalancing of archery (with 50/50 dex/str split for shortbows) has effectively killed the shortbow/dex build. So, it's back to the Cunning/Longbow build now.

I don't see why cun build is better than dex/str build since both add 50% to damage.
And with none-cun build, you can safely pump str for better armor (such as Wade's Dragon Armors) without worrying wasting points on both cun/str.

you do CuN because most rogue abilitiys get better with it.... and if you are a bard CUN makes your songes really powerful

[T0rin3]

Hulk Hsieh wrote...

T0rin3 wrote...

 The 1.02 patch, assuming it can be seen as the final rebalancing of archery (with 50/50 dex/str split for shortbows) has effectively killed the shortbow/dex build. So, it's back to the Cunning/Longbow build now.

I don't see why cun build is better than dex/str build since both add 50% to damage.
And with none-cun build, you can safely pump str for better armor (such as Wade's Dragon Armors) without worrying wasting points on both cun/str.

For a rogue, Cun boosts Song of Courage and Tainted Blade, and saves skill points on Persuasion and talent points on Lockpicking. It isn't all about damage...

And why would you want non-light armor?

[Ashkeldir]

T0rin3 wrote...

I don't know when you get the Whitewood Bow, but it's the best shortbow. Also, strangely enough, in the game it is actually bigger than the best longbow, go figure.

I haven't read the rest of the thread yet but I'm posting this in case I forget to reply later..

***spoiler***

I got the Whitewood bow from one of the two chests at the Kadan-Fe mercenaries camp (when doing the quest chain for Master Ignacio)

Also, something in a different vein - I think Falon'Din's Reach is buggy - at least for me..  Crit chance bonuses are not being applied correctly, or at least, not displaying correctly in my stats window.  With the bow equipped, and Leliana singing Song of Courage, I still have only a 1.6% crit chance!  It's weird because it does go up when I activate Aim.  I tested by swapping out to the Whitewood bow, and the crit chance goes up as much as expected, but when I switch back to Falon'Din's reach, it's back to not working with Song of Courage     And I already rescued Owen's daughter - wish I had read this thread before doing that - now I'll never get Far Song 

[Besetment]

Ashkeldir wrote...

And I already rescued Owen's daughter - wish I had read this thread before doing that - now I'll never get Far Song 

I made a .gda for use with the Mysterious Bag mod that adds a bunch of items I missed throughout the game into my inventory. These were usually items that were bugged and didn't drop (Ancient Elven Boots) and ones like Far Song which you have one chance to get before its gone forever. Without wanting to redo large parts of the game to get these items I just spawned them directly into my inventory. If you want, I can delete all the other crap I missed and just upload the .gda with only Far Song in it.

Modifié par Besetment, 10 décembre 2009 - 11:45 .

[Ashkeldir]

Besetment wrote...

Ashkeldir wrote...

And I already rescued Owen's daughter - wish I had read this thread before doing that - now I'll never get Far Song 

I made a .gda for use with the Mysterious Bag mod that adds a bunch of items I missed throughout the game into my inventory. These were usually items that were bugged and didn't drop (Ancient Elven Boots) and ones like Far Song which you have one chance to get before its gone forever. Without wanting to redo large parts of the game to get these items I just spawned them directly into my inventory. If you want, I can delete all the other crap I missed and just upload the .gda with only Far Song in it.

I really appreciate you taking the time to post, and what you're offering, but I'm a stickler...  Often to my own detriment, and that means that in this case, I have to decline    Thank you though!  I'm sure others would want it, but it won't be the last time I play an archer, so next time I'll know     Besides, there are other decent bows - just none quite so good.  I don't consider it cheating, and though I feel ripped off that I had no idea that being a nice guy would screw me out of the best bow in the game, I'm just that way..  I even had an extra grimoire of the frozen wastes (the book you get with the collector's edition), it was given to me in my inventory after receiving The Edge download, but I deleted it rather than using it - because that's just the way I am - not judging anyone else!  I just prefer to play this way - thanks again though  

And btw, it seems that Falon'Din's Reach is no longer bugged for me - maybe I just had to post a complaint here ?  LoL  Though Leliana's crit chance is still 3% higher than mine, but I am guessing (perhaps incorrectly) that it is because she's the one singing the Song of Courage..  My stats are higher than hers, and we're both using Dragonthorn bows - she has fewer talents than I do..  I'm using Falon'Din's Reach and have a 7.1% crit chance, she's using Marjolaine's bow and has a 10.1% crit chance...  Odd, but ... whatever... (and no, there's no other equipment giving us bonuses to crit chance - my character is only level 13)

Modifié par Ashkeldir, 10 décembre 2009 - 12:38 .

[Asugai2]

A warrior will have higher attack rating compared to rogue, and I'd say that the warrior talents are quite useful, especially when wearing the heavy armor, Powerful, Bravery, Disengage, Perfect Striking are all good. Of course, it all depends on how do you wish to play your character. I don't use Dueling and Berserker glitch because it is lame IMO, therefore I prefer warrior for higher hit rate.

[th3warr1or]

Why no will-power?

[Ashkeldir]

AXidenT Gamer wrote...

The main downside of the Cunning build is that more arrows will miss, but if the party had the third Bard talent and the Warrior's Rally, that'd be more than made up for, right?

That's assuming your archer is within the Rally circle - and I try to stay at range from melee combat, so I'm not often in those circles.

[th3warr1or]

Asugai2 wrote...

A warrior will have higher attack rating compared to rogue, and I'd say that the warrior talents are quite useful, especially when wearing the heavy armor, Powerful, Bravery, Disengage, Perfect Striking are all good. Of course, it all depends on how do you wish to play your character. I don't use Dueling and Berserker glitch because it is lame IMO, therefore I prefer warrior for higher hit rate.

What is the Beserker glitch?

Also, what damage should your character be doing.. I'm only hitting 40-50 with 72 cunning.

And also, why is the WILLPOWER so low?

[Asugai2]

The Berserker talents are reserved for melee weapons, but if you have one equpped and immediately switch to a ranged one the damage bonus from Berserk (+8) will remain.



About the damage, what level are you? Which bow do you use? 50 Damage is not bad.



I don't know what you mean about the Willpower. If it's low, put a few points in it and buy Spellward amulet (+5 in Willpower). Since the Archery tree is the one with the lowest amount of passive talents (only 2, compared to 5 in S&S, and 4 in Dual Wield and 2h) it is wise to have a solid score there, and/or to find some equipment with stamina bonus.