I am running a human archer and I am running with alistar and either morgian or wynne in my group. With leliana as a bard do i need to go bard as well? or can i just use her bard skills and put most of her points in cunning as well to buff the bard songs up, or should i spec my toon bard as well?
The hows and whys of Archery
Débuté par
Dopeslap
, nov. 28 2009 08:27
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#177
Posté 11 décembre 2009 - 08:34
SuperD-710
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So why is any dex over 30 a waste on cunning build archers? There's still damage bonus (same as cunning/str) and not to mention attack bonus right?
#178
Posté 11 décembre 2009 - 09:56
ELOE1985
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SuperD-710 wrote...
So why is any dex over 30 a waste on cunning build archers? There's still damage bonus (same as cunning/str) and not to mention attack bonus right?
After 30, you can unlock all the Archery Talents and you should have enough +Stat items to get 34 for Tier 7 longbows. While adding more Dex can still add more damage, adding more Cunning will benefit more abilities such as Lockpicking, Stealing, Coercion, Bard songs, etc.
#179
Posté 11 décembre 2009 - 10:19
Siven80
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ELOE1985 wrote...
SuperD-710 wrote...
So why is any dex over 30 a waste on cunning build archers? There's still damage bonus (same as cunning/str) and not to mention attack bonus right?
After 30, you can unlock all the Archery Talents and you should have enough +Stat items to get 34 for Tier 7 longbows. While adding more Dex can still add more damage, adding more Cunning will benefit more abilities such as Lockpicking, Stealing, Coercion, Bard songs, etc.
Yes and no.
While cunning is good for Archers (Bard song mainly) its not a huge boost so dont neglect Dex.
Archers NEED good attack rating otherwise you WILL notice all those misses. Remember Dex gives 0.5 attack and dmg per point and there arent many items with +attack on. Its well worth having a good high Dex.
A difference of 30 cunning with Bards song of courage isnt a whole lot really. But 30 dex is 15 attack which is a whole lot and much more than the attack you get from the bard song.
Thats not to say the song is bad, its very good infact. But for archers IMO, Dex is better once cunning is high enough.
For DW rogues, its the other way round. High cun, mid dex.
#180
Posté 21 décembre 2009 - 09:26
Nifell
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so then, as a new archer, i only have one question for a cunning longbow bard.
what stats per level?
say level 2, 1 dex 2cun, that sorta thing.
also, given the high amount of cun, what points in the game do i need to, or if i need to, take a point into coerscion (spelling), lock picking, etc.
i play on the 360, something about my netbook not having enough stats
what stats per level?
say level 2, 1 dex 2cun, that sorta thing.
also, given the high amount of cun, what points in the game do i need to, or if i need to, take a point into coerscion (spelling), lock picking, etc.
i play on the 360, something about my netbook not having enough stats
Modifié par Nifell, 21 décembre 2009 - 09:29 .
#181
Posté 03 janvier 2010 - 07:54
NinjaWJ
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wow that was an intense read. lotsa good info though
#182
Guest_LordReinhart_*
Posté 05 janvier 2010 - 06:18
Guest_LordReinhart_*
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On consoles I don't see how strength is adding 100% damage to bows..
As when I add one point of str, I get 0.3 damage added, and when I add one point of dex, 0.3 damage is added as well, wheres this 100% from str ???
As when I add one point of str, I get 0.3 damage added, and when I add one point of dex, 0.3 damage is added as well, wheres this 100% from str ???
#183
Posté 06 janvier 2010 - 02:25
Soretooth
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This is an excellent thread for those getting into the numbers game. However, I'm going to throw something else into the mix. I play on a PC, so I don't know the applicability of my suggestions for consoles.
I use a couple of mods for Leliana and my main Warrior char using longbows for ranged enemies. The mods are:
Better Archery
All Aquiver
One of the longbow mods I use is:
Baelschorne
I haven't the faintest idea about stat numbers, etc.
I just know that my archers are tremendous with these mods. They're actually pretty good as melee archers as well, as long as this skill has been chosen. Hint: They don't miss and they do impressive damage, especially with the All Aquiver arrows that have a neat fire or ice tip effect.
I use a couple of mods for Leliana and my main Warrior char using longbows for ranged enemies. The mods are:
Better Archery
All Aquiver
One of the longbow mods I use is:
Baelschorne
I haven't the faintest idea about stat numbers, etc.
I just know that my archers are tremendous with these mods. They're actually pretty good as melee archers as well, as long as this skill has been chosen. Hint: They don't miss and they do impressive damage, especially with the All Aquiver arrows that have a neat fire or ice tip effect.
#184
Posté 06 janvier 2010 - 02:52
sethroskull79
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Man, I swear this has to be the most confusing/interesting topic about character builds. I can't wait to make my Archer Character. Going Dalish Elf Rogue. I need to do the Origin story, but a woodland elf with a bow seems very RPG to me. I just wish I could know the (real way) damage is derived for bows. Is it 100% STR or 50 50 STR DEX swapping STR for CUN for Lethality? I play on 360 so mo mods for me.
#185
Guest_LordReinhart_*
Posté 06 janvier 2010 - 04:43
Guest_LordReinhart_*
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bump
Dex and str still adding 0.3 damage each, not 100% nor 0.5 damage. On consoles. Generic longbow used for testing, str modifier = 1 on it.
Dex and str still adding 0.3 damage each, not 100% nor 0.5 damage. On consoles. Generic longbow used for testing, str modifier = 1 on it.
#186
Posté 06 janvier 2010 - 04:46
sethroskull79
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LordReinhart....what does that mean? example. STR 23 DEX 47 Longbow that does 9.5 damage....What would my damage be?
#187
Posté 06 janvier 2010 - 04:46
sethroskull79
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My guess would be around 27 max.
#188
Posté 06 janvier 2010 - 04:55
Siven80
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They add only 0.3 on PC too, always have. Whether its meant to, or a bug i dunno.
#189
Posté 06 janvier 2010 - 05:02
sethroskull79
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So according to you guys for example sake : (STR 23 DEX 47 Longbow 9.5 damage) 0.3 damage per DEX and STR points. This Char would do 30.5 max Damage.
#190
Guest_LordReinhart_*
Posté 06 janvier 2010 - 05:28
Guest_LordReinhart_*
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I'll have to check my bow's damage, all I know is every point of dex I add, 0.3 damage was being added, and same with st, 0.3 damage, you can all try it for yourself, just when you level up, or if you have str or dex gear, put it on and take it off, you'll see for every point of dex its 0.3 added, and every point of str its 0.3 added.
#191
Guest_LordReinhart_*
Posté 06 janvier 2010 - 05:28
Guest_LordReinhart_*
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This is on consoles.
#192
Posté 06 janvier 2010 - 05:30
sethroskull79
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Well I believe you Lord R. At least now I got something to go by as this seems more accurate and that you've done the research, not just go by what you've read. DEX is a must for Archer builds, but now do I go STR or CUN? Not sure about that yet.
#193
Posté 06 janvier 2010 - 05:32
sethroskull79
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I play on console so this is the exact info I was looking for.
#194
Guest_LordReinhart_*
Posté 06 janvier 2010 - 05:35
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Yeah, it's just annoying you read a million different things of what people say, so I had to just go figure it out on my own, and it was nothing to what people were saying... theres no 0.5 points of damage being added, and theres no 100% of damage coming from str.
That's why people say go full cunning as it would supposedly get 100% of its damage from that talent, but its still 0.3 on dex or str/cunning with lethality.
That's why people say go full cunning as it would supposedly get 100% of its damage from that talent, but its still 0.3 on dex or str/cunning with lethality.
#195
Posté 06 janvier 2010 - 05:37
sethroskull79
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I'd say if your a warrior archer go STR but if a Rogue you go CUN. That makes the most sense to me. It may take a while to get Lethality, so go STR early, then go DEX, CUN, WILL later on.
#196
Guest_LordReinhart_*
Posté 06 janvier 2010 - 05:44
Guest_LordReinhart_*
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Now maybe its a possibility that the slid in a minor hotfix in the game that we don't notice, but who knows.
I just know information from a month ago said 100% from str, and the fix was supposed to be 50/50 with 0.5 damage being added.
But today,and as of last night me adding dexterity and str, and subtracting them, was only adding 0.3 per str, and 0.3 per dex, with a str modifier = 1 long bow.
This is also my fourth archer I've remade because I kept remaking because I kept reading different **** that people were saying with the dex bug.
I still don't know if its wiser to go full dex, or full cunning.
It doesn't matter for damage sake,
except more dex = less misses if you don't go duelist
more cunning = more armor pen and assuming armor pen isnt broken for longbows, then more damage.
As the highest build for a dw rogue is dagger/dagger cun, as the armor pen vastly improves their damage.
For this playthrough I am going to stop at 34 or so dex, I forget the exact number to weild the best bow in the game, then pump the rest in cunning.
Cunning also affects tainted blade and bard songs if you go that route. So more damage too.
I personally am going ranger / duelist or bard.
Ranger doesn't affect your damage at all for heroic accomplishment, but I know its my pet, so I don't complain as I know with my pet doing 30~ damage every second or so plus my 30 damage, I am doing 60 or so damage to help the party, even through heroic accomplishments wont record your ranger pets damage, you just personally know he's adding significant damage, like a hunter pet in warcraft.
But if you want just yourself to be doing alot of damage, and for all of your damage to be in heroic accomplishment, then duelist/bard is the way to go.
I just know information from a month ago said 100% from str, and the fix was supposed to be 50/50 with 0.5 damage being added.
But today,and as of last night me adding dexterity and str, and subtracting them, was only adding 0.3 per str, and 0.3 per dex, with a str modifier = 1 long bow.
This is also my fourth archer I've remade because I kept remaking because I kept reading different **** that people were saying with the dex bug.
I still don't know if its wiser to go full dex, or full cunning.
It doesn't matter for damage sake,
except more dex = less misses if you don't go duelist
more cunning = more armor pen and assuming armor pen isnt broken for longbows, then more damage.
As the highest build for a dw rogue is dagger/dagger cun, as the armor pen vastly improves their damage.
For this playthrough I am going to stop at 34 or so dex, I forget the exact number to weild the best bow in the game, then pump the rest in cunning.
Cunning also affects tainted blade and bard songs if you go that route. So more damage too.
I personally am going ranger / duelist or bard.
Ranger doesn't affect your damage at all for heroic accomplishment, but I know its my pet, so I don't complain as I know with my pet doing 30~ damage every second or so plus my 30 damage, I am doing 60 or so damage to help the party, even through heroic accomplishments wont record your ranger pets damage, you just personally know he's adding significant damage, like a hunter pet in warcraft.
But if you want just yourself to be doing alot of damage, and for all of your damage to be in heroic accomplishment, then duelist/bard is the way to go.
#197
Guest_LordReinhart_*
Posté 06 janvier 2010 - 05:50
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I just personally like having my ranger pet, I may though, change my mind, and go duelist/bard, as I want all the damage to go from me. and be recorded in the heroic accomplishments.
I bet if the ranger pet would be included with your damage in the heroic accomplishment, then you'd have alot more, but I tested it, and my wolf's damage wasn't being added to my damage in the heroic accomplishment list.
Duelist/Bard is the way to go for your personal damage to be high, as well as all of it would be in heroic accomplishment, unlike your ranger pet.
Song of Courage + Tainted Blade, is a significant damage increase.
I know tainted blade alone was adding 11-12 more damage to my bow at level 10, song of courage was about 4-5. This being low level with like 30 cunning or so.
Plus the health you take at the lower levels, 10 health a tick, is noticable for a bit, but higher levels it's barely noticed with a healer in your party.
And when you use pinpoint strike from the duelist tree, you get 10 automatic crits after, which is awesome.
I bet if the ranger pet would be included with your damage in the heroic accomplishment, then you'd have alot more, but I tested it, and my wolf's damage wasn't being added to my damage in the heroic accomplishment list.
Duelist/Bard is the way to go for your personal damage to be high, as well as all of it would be in heroic accomplishment, unlike your ranger pet.
Song of Courage + Tainted Blade, is a significant damage increase.
I know tainted blade alone was adding 11-12 more damage to my bow at level 10, song of courage was about 4-5. This being low level with like 30 cunning or so.
Plus the health you take at the lower levels, 10 health a tick, is noticable for a bit, but higher levels it's barely noticed with a healer in your party.
And when you use pinpoint strike from the duelist tree, you get 10 automatic crits after, which is awesome.
Modifié par LordReinhart, 06 janvier 2010 - 05:52 .
#198
Posté 06 janvier 2010 - 05:55
sethroskull79
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But can you max out all the archer lines, the stealth line, device mastery line, and both duelist and bard lines? Thats 28 talents, but if you get to Level 22 or so plus the tomes, and Warden Bonus and the 2 in the begining during character creation this may be possible.
#199
Guest_LordReinhart_*
Posté 06 janvier 2010 - 06:18
Guest_LordReinhart_*
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I didn't bother with stealth, I just never found it that useful, for one extra shot crit. That left me with 4 points to put wherever. People say stealth for trap making, and to get out of combat if your'e in trouble, but do proper tanking from your tank and you shouldn't have to use stealth in combat to hide. I also found trap making with stealth just to take tooo much time and not worth the trouble.
Bard you only need to go 3 points, duelist would be 4 for pinpoint strike,
which is 4 points free from stealth, and device mastery line, you only need to go 2 points, with high cunning, they say one point with 60 cunning though, but I always do 2 points as then as im leveling up everything is unlockable. Going 1 point, then hitting denerim would **** you over on chests, same with circle tower., but 2 covers the leveling process to pick locks as your raising cunning.
Bard you only need to go 3 points, duelist would be 4 for pinpoint strike,
which is 4 points free from stealth, and device mastery line, you only need to go 2 points, with high cunning, they say one point with 60 cunning though, but I always do 2 points as then as im leveling up everything is unlockable. Going 1 point, then hitting denerim would **** you over on chests, same with circle tower., but 2 covers the leveling process to pick locks as your raising cunning.
#200
Posté 06 janvier 2010 - 06:32
sethroskull79
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I won't reach 60 cunning till very late, and there are plenty of chests before then, so there is something to be said about getting the lockpick skills as early as possible. Stealth may be useful cause if you set tactics to stealth first, then your first hit is a crit. I am not sure yet how I am gonna do it. It may not be for a while cause I still got a mage and a warrior waiting to go to the landsmeet and I want to finish at least one of them before I start this archer. But I continue to scour these message boards and spy on character builds to see how to do it. From what I see by level 15 or so Archers can hit for 35-45 on average. Leliana hits for 40 or so for my games and I didn't even really spec her the best. If the archer in my main character, I am sure I will be reading tomes, and getting all the best equipment. So they will exceed her damage output.
