And to be honest, I wouldn't stress about what to play as, play what's more fun.
Personally, for my main playthrough I am going ranger, and bard
So I miss more with out duelist, but I have more fun with having a ranger pet.
The hows and whys of Archery
Débuté par
Dopeslap
, nov. 28 2009 08:27
Retour en haut
#202
Guest_LordReinhart_*
Posté 06 janvier 2010 - 06:46
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But, yes, the best build is, dex till the best bow, I think its like 37, but it's like 31 with gear + tomes from circle tower, read the first page. and all of the rest in cunning.
and duelist/bard, as the 10 attack in duelist, will make you have a higher hit rate. as well as the 9 attack in song of courage at 70 cunning, for 19 total points of attack which is equivalent to adding 38 points of dexterity for attack rating, which is alot.
And it bumps up your damage better than dex would, even those its 0.3 damage per point for each stat, BUT you gain over 4 more points of armor pen, + 5~ damage from song of courage.
and duelist/bard, as the 10 attack in duelist, will make you have a higher hit rate. as well as the 9 attack in song of courage at 70 cunning, for 19 total points of attack which is equivalent to adding 38 points of dexterity for attack rating, which is alot.
And it bumps up your damage better than dex would, even those its 0.3 damage per point for each stat, BUT you gain over 4 more points of armor pen, + 5~ damage from song of courage.
Modifié par LordReinhart, 06 janvier 2010 - 06:49 .
#203
Posté 06 janvier 2010 - 07:01
sethroskull79
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Hey do you know if there is a max % crit chance gear you can wear. I know for mages the max is %30 for fire ice or electric damage increasers.
#204
Guest_LordReinhart_*
Posté 06 janvier 2010 - 07:42
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I personally do not know that information :/
#205
Guest_LordReinhart_*
Posté 06 janvier 2010 - 08:14
Guest_LordReinhart_*
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The information I posted was information I personally tested and tried out ingame, always better to test for yourself then what you read, as what generally happens is, person A tests stuff out, posts his information, then persons B, C, D reads it, learns from it, so when person X Y Z asks for help, persons B C D simply relay the information they read weeks ago, and it keeps on spreading... with out actual testing.
I took the time, to test for myself, and came to the conclusion that it was simply adding 0.3 damage per point of str, and per point of dex, not 0.5 like people are claiming.
I took the time, to test for myself, and came to the conclusion that it was simply adding 0.3 damage per point of str, and per point of dex, not 0.5 like people are claiming.
#206
Posté 06 janvier 2010 - 08:46
Siven80
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Not a fan of ranger spec....atleast not until its fixed.
I find while the stamina cost of having the pet is high, its worth it for the dmg, BUT the cast time to summon it is way way too long and the fact you have to re summon after every zone switch, urgh hate it.
maybe when thats fixed i'll like ranger more, but currently, no dont like it
I find while the stamina cost of having the pet is high, its worth it for the dmg, BUT the cast time to summon it is way way too long and the fact you have to re summon after every zone switch, urgh hate it.
maybe when thats fixed i'll like ranger more, but currently, no dont like it
#207
Guest_LordReinhart_*
Posté 07 janvier 2010 - 12:27
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Yeah that is a pain in the ass, but I enjoy it for a casual fun playthrough...
now if I were min maxing my damage potential soley, def duelist/bard.
now if I were min maxing my damage potential soley, def duelist/bard.
#208
Posté 07 janvier 2010 - 06:47
Kelandria
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LordReinhart, is it possible for you to write a collection of this thread in a small guide or in depth detailed guide(i know they can be a pain) small is just as good. You seem to do your homework and enjoy helping others. I don't think the OP will update. If you can start a new post for it and reply the link to my guide compilation so i can add it for others
Thanks
Thanks
#209
Posté 07 janvier 2010 - 10:00
Haplose
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LordReinhart wrote...
But, yes, the best build is, dex till the best bow, I think its like 37, but it's like 31 with gear + tomes from circle tower, read the first page. and all of the rest in cunning.
and duelist/bard, as the 10 attack in duelist, will make you have a higher hit rate. as well as the 9 attack in song of courage at 70 cunning, for 19 total points of attack which is equivalent to adding 38 points of dexterity for attack rating, which is alot.
And it bumps up your damage better than dex would, even those its 0.3 damage per point for each stat, BUT you gain over 4 more points of armor pen, + 5~ damage from song of courage.
I would disagree. Unless you specifically want to play a party friendly Bard.
IMHO the best Archer would be a Dex Ranger/Duelist build. I think the Ranger's pet is worth more then these maybe 4 points of damage coming from extra penetration from Cun. As a Dex base you have no issues hitting stuff and your survivability due to high Defence can be hardly compared with a Cun build.
Pinpoint Strike should be quite good also.
Cunning Rogues are only good as dual-wielders, when they can stack a metric ton of Assasin and DLC damage effects from high Cun (Exploit Weakness, Mark of Death, Tainted Blade... is Lacerate also based on Cun?). None of these applies to archery. There is the slight boost to armour penetration, but is it worth the loss in accuracy and Defence? IMO no.
#210
Posté 07 janvier 2010 - 11:19
Sacrificial Bias
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You are of course saying all this under the assumption that everyone is playing the PC version with the dexfix right? Because I was under the assumption that anyone playing on the console would be getting the short end of the stick when using dex-based builds, no matter what their class is or what weapon they use. Though I suppose on a pure tank with no concern for damage output it would prove useful.Haplose wrote...
LordReinhart wrote...
But, yes, the best build is, dex till the best bow, I think its like 37, but it's like 31 with gear + tomes from circle tower, read the first page. and all of the rest in cunning.
and duelist/bard, as the 10 attack in duelist, will make you have a higher hit rate. as well as the 9 attack in song of courage at 70 cunning, for 19 total points of attack which is equivalent to adding 38 points of dexterity for attack rating, which is alot.
And it bumps up your damage better than dex would, even those its 0.3 damage per point for each stat, BUT you gain over 4 more points of armor pen, + 5~ damage from song of courage.
I would disagree. Unless you specifically want to play a party friendly Bard.
IMHO the best Archer would be a Dex Ranger/Duelist build. I think the Ranger's pet is worth more then these maybe 4 points of damage coming from extra penetration from Cun. As a Dex base you have no issues hitting stuff and your survivability due to high Defence can be hardly compared with a Cun build.
Pinpoint Strike should be quite good also.
Cunning Rogues are only good as dual-wielders, when they can stack a metric ton of Assasin and DLC damage effects from high Cun (Exploit Weakness, Mark of Death, Tainted Blade... is Lacerate also based on Cun?). None of these applies to archery. There is the slight boost to armour penetration, but is it worth the loss in accuracy and Defence? IMO no.
#211
Posté 07 janvier 2010 - 11:22
Haplose
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Not really. Now that patch 1.02 is out on the PC I assume most people will be using that.
For the consoles... I'm not sure, but I don't think I saw a final and definite statement that they are 100% Str based?
I rather heard the opinions that they have the 50%/50% split as well. But sure, the info about this was rather confusing.
For the consoles... I'm not sure, but I don't think I saw a final and definite statement that they are 100% Str based?
I rather heard the opinions that they have the 50%/50% split as well. But sure, the info about this was rather confusing.
#212
Posté 07 janvier 2010 - 01:22
Kipferl
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Does someone know a good mod for archery?
There was "better Archery" on DragonAgeNexus but its gone...
There was "better Archery" on DragonAgeNexus but its gone...
#213
Posté 07 janvier 2010 - 02:45
Kelandria
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Haplose wrote...
Not really. Now that patch 1.02 is out on the PC I assume most people will be using that.
For the consoles... I'm not sure, but I don't think I saw a final and definite statement that they are 100% Str based?
I rather heard the opinions that they have the 50%/50% split as well. But sure, the info about this was rather confusing.
LordReinhart was talking about console only along with most of the end of this thead. IMO PC should not have to worry, the community fixes the problems faster then the developers.
#214
Posté 07 janvier 2010 - 02:52
sethroskull79
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I looked at Leliana in both of my current games, and she can more than hold her own when it comes to dealing out damage. Plus, not that I neglected her, but I built her both times not really knowing much about Archery. Having read a bunch about it since and having my third playthrough be as an Archer and Main PC, I think that my soon to be Archer will exceed Leliana's abilities. If my Leliana does 40-50 damage on average at Level 21, then my main PC Archer will be doing more, due to the Tomes, Warden Bonus, Equipment, and smarter allocation of attributes and talents. So I can't wait to begin this Archer.
#215
Posté 07 janvier 2010 - 03:48
WillieStyle
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Haplose wrote...
Cunning Rogues are only good as dual-wielders, when they can stack a metric ton of Assasin and DLC damage effects from high Cun (Exploit Weakness, Mark of Death, Tainted Blade... is Lacerate also based on Cun?). None of these applies to archery. There is the slight boost to armour penetration, but is it worth the loss in accuracy and Defence? IMO no.
Tainted blade applies to archery and mark of death doesn't scale with cunning.
The only benefit from cunning that a dual-wielder gets but an archer doesn't (as far as I know) is Exploit weakness.
#216
Posté 07 janvier 2010 - 03:58
sethroskull79
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I can sort of confirm the 0.3 per point of STR and DEX as what determines damage for Archers. By doing the math with the current stats from Leliana and her bow. My result was 1 point off. I think the Game had her Damage at 41.6 and when I did the 0.3 thing I got 40.6. So not exact but pretty damn close. Obviously I used Cunning instead of Strength due to Lethality. So take it or leave it but it comes pretty damn close. I also play on XBOX 360. Not sure about PC.
#217
Guest_LordReinhart_*
Posté 07 janvier 2010 - 05:56
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Yeah what you can do, is save when you level up, then put in the 3 points in dex, and you'll see the damage goes up by 0.9, on consoles, same with str, or cunning with lethality.
It should be 0.5 as all the wiki's say, even bioware, but it's broken on consoles.
And it's a huge decrease in damage, adding 20 points of dex would be 6 points of damage on console, but had the dex been fixed and giving 0.5, then it would be 10 points of damage, a loss of 4 potential points of damage every 20 points.
So say your archer has 40 points in dex, 60 in cunning with lethality, that's a grand total of 80 points, at 0.3 damage per point, you're at 24 extra points of damage, but had the calculations be correct for dex and str, at 0.5 points of damage per point, you'd have 40 extra points of damage, almost double of your potential damage output on consoles. So in reality you're archer is losing half its damage on consoles.
This needs to be addressed and fixed asap.
and another thing to add, rogues who wield daggers, are not getting any points of damage from dexterity, I just tried that as well. Which makes high str, or high cunning builds better. But you're still losing 12 or so points of damage as you have to invest points in dex to wield the best daggers.
It should be 0.5 as all the wiki's say, even bioware, but it's broken on consoles.
And it's a huge decrease in damage, adding 20 points of dex would be 6 points of damage on console, but had the dex been fixed and giving 0.5, then it would be 10 points of damage, a loss of 4 potential points of damage every 20 points.
So say your archer has 40 points in dex, 60 in cunning with lethality, that's a grand total of 80 points, at 0.3 damage per point, you're at 24 extra points of damage, but had the calculations be correct for dex and str, at 0.5 points of damage per point, you'd have 40 extra points of damage, almost double of your potential damage output on consoles. So in reality you're archer is losing half its damage on consoles.
This needs to be addressed and fixed asap.
and another thing to add, rogues who wield daggers, are not getting any points of damage from dexterity, I just tried that as well. Which makes high str, or high cunning builds better. But you're still losing 12 or so points of damage as you have to invest points in dex to wield the best daggers.
#218
Guest_LordReinhart_*
Posté 07 janvier 2010 - 06:05
Guest_LordReinhart_*
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Haplose wrote...
LordReinhart wrote...
But, yes, the best build is, dex till the best bow, I think its like 37, but it's like 31 with gear + tomes from circle tower, read the first page. and all of the rest in cunning.
and duelist/bard, as the 10 attack in duelist, will make you have a higher hit rate. as well as the 9 attack in song of courage at 70 cunning, for 19 total points of attack which is equivalent to adding 38 points of dexterity for attack rating, which is alot.
And it bumps up your damage better than dex would, even those its 0.3 damage per point for each stat, BUT you gain over 4 more points of armor pen, + 5~ damage from song of courage.
I would disagree. Unless you specifically want to play a party friendly Bard.
IMHO the best Archer would be a Dex Ranger/Duelist build. I think the Ranger's pet is worth more then these maybe 4 points of damage coming from extra penetration from Cun. As a Dex base you have no issues hitting stuff and your survivability due to high Defence can be hardly compared with a Cun build.
Pinpoint Strike should be quite good also.
Cunning Rogues are only good as dual-wielders, when they can stack a metric ton of Assasin and DLC damage effects from high Cun (Exploit Weakness, Mark of Death, Tainted Blade... is Lacerate also based on Cun?). None of these applies to archery. There is the slight boost to armour penetration, but is it worth the loss in accuracy and Defence? IMO no.
Ranger's pet does do a lot of damage, but for your personal damage output, for it to be on heroic accomplishment as the amount of damage you personally did, duelist/bard is the best. If you read previously I stated that. I did say ranger pet does do significant more damage than you would get going duelist/bard, but all your pets damage would not show up on heroic accomplishment with your damage, it's like having an extra npc helping you (not a party member, but an npc), that doesn't have his damage recorded.
The duelist/bard build is simply for people who want to maximize their own damage potential, and have every bit of it show up on heroic accomplishments, where as ranger pet will not. Now had ranger pet been combined with your damage in heroic accomplishments, then yes, your ranger pet plus your damage would blow any other damage out of the water.
#219
Posté 07 janvier 2010 - 06:13
sethroskull79
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Isn't there supposed to be an xbox patch? I am not sure.
#220
Posté 07 janvier 2010 - 06:24
Haplose
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LordReinhart wrote...
Yeah what you can do, is save when you level up, then put in the 3 points in dex, and you'll see the damage goes up by 0.9, on consoles, same with str, or cunning with lethality.
It should be 0.5 as all the wiki's say, even bioware, but it's broken on consoles.
And it's a huge decrease in damage, adding 20 points of dex would be 6 points of damage on console, but had the dex been fixed and giving 0.5, then it would be 10 points of damage, a loss of 4 potential points of damage every 20 points.
So say your archer has 40 points in dex, 60 in cunning with lethality, that's a grand total of 80 points, at 0.3 damage per point, you're at 24 extra points of damage, but had the calculations be correct for dex and str, at 0.5 points of damage per point, you'd have 40 extra points of damage, almost double of your potential damage output on consoles. So in reality you're archer is losing half its damage on consoles.
This needs to be addressed and fixed asap.
Hmm... are we speaking about damage per shot or about the statistic number in the character sheet?
If the latter, then that figure is normalized to base attack speed, therefore won't reflect the actual damage per shot (for which the 0,5/0,5 modifiers should be used).
#221
Guest_LordReinhart_*
Posté 07 janvier 2010 - 06:35
Guest_LordReinhart_*
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I don't think its being normalized, as with a bow with rapid aim, and a bow with out, the damage is the same, increased by 0.3, with every bow thus far I've tried with, falodins, far song, generic longbows etc.
#222
Posté 07 janvier 2010 - 07:05
sethroskull79
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Is the number on the character screen for damage max damage or an average?
#223
Posté 07 janvier 2010 - 07:10
beancounter501
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No stat gives a full +1 pt of dmg for either melee or archery. S&S, 2hand and Archers each get .625 pts of dmg per dmg attribute point. Dual welders get .37. Since attribute dmg for Archers is split 50/50 dex and str you get the .312 per point of either dex or str/cun. Hope that helps explain things.
Edit: then the attribute dmg gets modified by the attribute bonus on your weapon. The above only applies to the character screen. It game play you get 50% of your base plus a random number between 0 and 25% of you base attribute dmg.
Dualers get a base of 25% plus a random number between 0 and 25%.
Edit: then the attribute dmg gets modified by the attribute bonus on your weapon. The above only applies to the character screen. It game play you get 50% of your base plus a random number between 0 and 25% of you base attribute dmg.
Dualers get a base of 25% plus a random number between 0 and 25%.
Modifié par beancounter501, 07 janvier 2010 - 07:13 .
#224
Posté 07 janvier 2010 - 07:52
sethroskull79
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Well as I stated in another post, I tried the 0.3 thing and the math worked out almost exactly to what the damage was on the Character screen. I was 1 point off. Whats the attribute bonus on your weapon?
#225
Posté 07 janvier 2010 - 08:35
beancounter501
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It will say it on the item screen. War axes and Great Swords get 110% and Mauls get a 125% attribute bonus. I don't think any of the bows get a bonus
