831 réponses à ce sujet

[Crazed Weevil]

Very nice post Eternalsteelfan...hit everything on head. Too bad that Bioware won't likely batter an eyelid at it...

[Federally]

Who doesn't enjoy a good boss fight? Most people barely understood the story line for Metal Gear Solid, but the game is remembered and considered a classic primarily due to its amazing boss fights. Even many gamers who've never played the game know who Psycho Mantis is.

[Fazumar]

Amazing insights! Thanks for taking the time to write that up.

[WaterWar]

Excellent post! Sums it up quite nicely!
Bioware needs to read this and keep it in mind during their considerations.

[dbl219]

Replying again to keep this on the front page.

To reiterate, Eternalsteelfan has written the most thoughtful and comprehensive analysis of what went wrong with the ending that I have seen to date.

[NekOoNinja]

6. Shephard is not a tragic hero. A
common debate I see is between people who think there should be a happy
ending and people who think such an ending would be out of place or
impossible, sometimes refering to Shephard as "tragic". The simple fact
is, Shephard has no tragic flaw nor does he make a tragic mistake; had
such a tragic characteristic existed, it could be a foregone conclusion
he would die. Overcoming the Reapers may be an impossible task, but the
impossible is routinely overcome in the Mass Effect trilogy and other
epics. As is, there is nothing
in the story that would railroad Shephard towards an inevitable demise,
the difficulty of his task makes his death likely, but there's nothing
that should remove the possibility of a happy ending. This may be
why many people want a "happy" or "brighter" ending, there's no setup
nor payoff to Shephard's death and without those it may feel cheap;
storytelling is all about setup and payoff.

For an example of a
good tragic hero, look no further than Mordin Solus. His tragic mistake
was the modification of the genophage. When a desperate need for krogan
intervention arose and the genophage was the reason they refused, Mordin
fulfilled his tragic role by sacrificing and redeeming himself. There's
a big setup for the genophage throughout the series and Mordin's
involvement is setup in the second game as a huge internal conflict for
him. In three, this all pays off beautifully with either his redemption
or brutal murder at Shephard's hands before he can succeed. This is
proper execution for a tragic character. From what I've seen,
this is one of the most beloved and well-received storylines in the
game; compare that to the ending's reception.

Thank you for putting it like this. My gut feeling at the end was that, plot holes aside, something was very wrong with the story telling. Atleast from the way you put it, it is not unreasonable to question why there was no happier ending.

From my point of view:
The death really felt tacked on for extra drama, at this point I was already worn down from all the emotional ups and (mostly) downs the story had. I could already feel the weight, the pressure, the emotional and moral conflcts Shepard was going through, and instead of giving the player/shepard a much needed "sigh of relief" or "victory accomplished" feeling, most were left with the feeling that is often described as "bleak" and "empty".

This may work for games such as "Dark Souls / Demon Souls", because their whole setting contains nothing but bleakness and is set up in a "lots of speculations for everyone" narrative style. But not Mass Effect. <_<

[WaterWar]

Just read it again. It is nice to have someone who knows about storytelling and screenwriting to analyze it for us who can't see the things you do.

Modifié par WaterWar, 20 mars 2012 - 03:52 .

[xxskyshadowxx]

Just read this again. I think they should employ this individual to help them flesh out something better.

[Keiran Solaris]

I like your analysis but will respectfully disagree with the point that Shepard is not tragic. Depending on the backstory and your choices in the game there are plenty of places for Shepard to have made a tragic mistake and cast himself as such. If nothing else the fact that Shepard was dead, resurrected by Cerberus, and then forced to work with them could be considered a mistake. That being said I'm ok with endings where he does and doesn't survive, honestly since Bioware is so big about choice in their games (or at least they used to be) I think there should have been both options available.

[AtlAggie]

Thanks for sharing this thoughtful analysis. I agree with your points, and have said other places that I'm particularly perturbed by the fact that the ending is all "telling" and no "showing." It's just so lazy, is bad storytelling and leaves the player (well, many players) seriously dissatisfied with the conclusion.

[BWchief117]

Great post... hope Bioware reads it, and gains some understanding of our feelings, and hopefully get past this defensive action that they naturally had to fall into.

[Kushan101]

Excellent posting, you managed to put into words all the things that disappointed me about the ending: but without me being able to articulate why.

[dbl219]

Another bump for great justice. Been trying to post this link on the Mass Effect Facebook page but for some reason I haven't been able to make it go through.

[mwiggin]

Just wanted to add another thank you for the OP. It is pretty crazy the amount of press this kind of stuff is getting.

[Divitiacus]

Keiran Solaris wrote...

I like your analysis but will respectfully disagree with the point that Shepard is not tragic. Depending on the backstory and your choices in the game there are plenty of places for Shepard to have made a tragic mistake and cast himself as such. If nothing else the fact that Shepard was dead, resurrected by Cerberus, and then forced to work with them could be considered a mistake. That being said I'm ok with endings where he does and doesn't survive, honestly since Bioware is so big about choice in their games (or at least they used to be) I think there should have been both options available.

Working for Cerberus as a paragon was not a mistake. They went rogue as soon as it appeared TIM was misusing their work.

[Eternalsteelfan]

Eternalsteelfan wrote...

anexanhume wrote...

Genuine curiosity, OP how would you end it?

I don't really mess with fan fiction but give me a few days and a handle of vodka and I'll churn something out.

In all seriousness though, a lot would depend on how much free rein I have, something like removing the Crucible would have ramifications throughout the script. For simplicity's sake and the high quality of most of the game, I'd say the very earliest part I'd consider start making changes to would be the trench run on the Citadel beam. It's the climax and from there we have many ways we can branch out into the resolution.

Stream of consciousness (excuse the clutter and lack of organization):
I'd like to work with alternatives to the Catalyst as a character, cut the whole thing from the elevator raising the character above to the top of the Citadel, TIM should have been dealt with prior to the battle for Earth, more screen time for Harbinger, ,ore integration of war assets and specific war assets acquired. I think eveything about the Catalyst needs a rework and I'd tie it to an ultimate choice or choices the player has to make. Maybe the Catalyst needs to be fueled or triggered by something, some high cost has to be paid. Ultimate goal was always destruction of Reapers, I'd say that'd be my constant in the endings with the variables being things like: war assets - choice(s) made with the reworked Catalyst.

I'm in a game right now, but I have a few specific ideas. Will post later.

Simplest answer: Anderson and Shepherd sit on the control tower -> the Crucible fires, the Reapers are destroyed -> epilogue

New update in OP, general outline of an ending. I 'm not going to lie, trying to unscrew the ending was an interesting challenge.

I had a real point to raise somewhere but I tired myself out with that crap. Sorry everyone who enjoys the more intellectual and important posts, real data and analysis will be added in the future. Today's musing was just for fun

[agent musubi]

Very good thread, providing a concrete expression to the frustrations of so many. In reflecting back to the days prior to the launch, I felt such a degree of confidence in Bioware's ability to finish the telling of our story...a degree of confidence then that now I'm barely able to believe existed given the ending's quality and Bioware's lack of subsequent response.

[JamesMoriarty123]

Although I don't agree with all you've said, Bioware should take notice of your thread as by doing so they will probably be in a position to make a LOT of people happy.

[Doc Magnus]

To the OP: Your first post analyzing the flaws of Mass Effect 3's ending was masterfully well-written and insightful. Thanks very much for sharing it here. And I've just finished reading the additional ending that you added. All I can say is that I wish that Bioware had you on their writing staff a year ago.

Modifié par Doc Magnus, 20 mars 2012 - 08:17 .

[Eternalsteelfan]

Doc Magnus wrote...

To the OP: Your first post analyzing the flaws of Mass Effect 3's ending was masterfully well-written and insightful. Thanks very much for sharing it here. And I've just finished reading the additional ending that you added. All I can say is that I wish that Bioware had you on their writing staff a year ago.

I'm flattered.

JamesMoriarty123 wrote...

Although I don't agree with all
you've said, Bioware should take notice of your thread as by doing so
they will probably be in a position to make a LOT of people
happy.

Thanks for the feedback, is there anything in particular you'd like to point out?

[Locutus_of_BORG]

^I like your analysis, OP. You've clearly sat down and combed through the ending more closely than me.

The ending I envisioned uses more of the original material than yours by playing off indoctrination as a device for giving Shep/player prescience, but yours has more well defined bookends than my ending did.

I never liked Thanix Missiles (they should've stayed being guns imo), so I personally wouldn't have used them over again.

I particularly liked your idea of the Crucible being an information weapon rather than just a big gun. Reminds me of the final solution from Sid Meyer's Alpha Centauri. I'd add that to my own imagined ending in a heartbeat.

Modifié par Locutus_of_BORG, 20 mars 2012 - 08:33 .

[Xmus88]

 I really like your analysis, as it makes very much sense in concert with the emotions i had when i finished the game. 

Also what a tremendous ending that would be... If only you worked for Bioware! 

[Sentox6]

Bump because this thread deserves it.

Your demonstration ending shows that it doesn't take an infeasible amount of effort to construct a resolution that is largely satisfying and provides at least a token acknowledgement of the player's choices.

Given what BioWare have shown themselves to be capable of (in terms of crafting engaging content), I can only really assume that what we got was intended as a blatant publicity grab, or a misguided attempt at "art" in videogames.

[Cambios]

Wow.

Very interesting take on a possible different ending.

[clos]

Woah! If only the OP had written the ending instead of the travesty Bioware has for an ending this would have been the best trilogy of games for all time! This guy breaks down where everything went incredibly wrong at Bioware and if I was them I would hire him in a second and copy his ending verbatim for Bioware to develop.

I still fail to comprehend how Bioware managed to screw up this big but that being said: Bravo OP, I'll from this point forever wish you had written the ending tot his game. Bravo.