831 réponses à ce sujet

[LePetitRobot]

Excellent work, OP.

[Lexica]

Great read long but very great

[OldPapaRich]

All of these fundemental writing mistakes makes it seem like the ending was bad on purpose.

[theacefes]

Great post, OP. You did an awesome job of breaking down and explaining why the ending doesn't make sense without going into uber-fan-rage mode. Attitudes like yours are much more effective at us having any chance of getting an alternate ending..or some kind of explanation.

[Federally]

EternalSteel your ending is much better then the one we got, tho I feel the end sacrificed is kind of forced. Instead at that point in your story you could involve the as yet unused war assets, small fighters and ground troops. So a fight with a heavily damaged Harby on the ground trying to deal the final blow would work I think. The rest of your war assets make an appearance making the fight easier.

[NotCras]

OldPapaRich wrote...

All of these fundemental writing mistakes makes it seem like the ending was bad on purpose.

I totally agree, BUT with all of casey hudson's comments and whatnot, I think you really are just stupid... But i really think theyre going to be fixing it eventually. Despite their stupidity with the ending, I dont think theyre stupid enough to leave it as is... i hope at least xD

Everyone be patient, the longer it takes them to make the fix, the better quality it should be right?? lol

[alx119]

I think the whole point of the kid on earth, and why Shepard gives so many ****s about him (which honestly, is simply weird, one would think that as a pretty much war hero he's seen -worse-) is to make Shepard look like a tragic hero.
The problem is that after two games of awesome success, ME3 is a total defeat. And it wouldn't be nearly as bad if it weren't for the incoherent ending :x

[Ahdia]

Great post OP, great ideas for the ending as well, nice work!

[Egonne]

Good read. Intelligent post.

[dannati]

Nice ending, OP. Would have been much better than what we got and a good send-off to the series, with only minor issues to quibble with

[iotha1804]

So much INSIGHT! Thanks OP

[clos]

Edje Edgar wrote...

Arppis wrote...

Great post and good read.

I didn't think the endings were so bad. But it does suck that there is lack of closure. They propably wanted players to "piece out" the missing bits themselves and make their own conclusions.

Edje Edgar wrote...

Casey Hudson on the ending:

"We always intended that the scale of the conflict and the underlying theme of sacrifice would lead to a bittersweet ending—to do otherwise would betray the agonizing decisions Shepard had to make along the way. Still, we wanted to give players the chance to experience an inspiring and uplifting ending; in a story where you face a hopeless struggle for basic survival, we see the final moments and imagery as offering victory and hope in the context of sacrifice and reflection."

I have no idea to which game he is refering. I havent made an agonizing choice once. Guess his story wasnt as clear as he thought.

To be fair, he propably means the Geth Vs. Quarian decission, if you haven't set it up just right. It's a hard choice if you are forced to choose between the two. Not to mention if you want the Salarian help in the Tuchanka, you need to betray both, Wrex and Mordin. That's a hard thing to do too.

Ending decission is hard in a way too. You can kill synthetics in expense of killing the Reapers. You may sacrifice your life to find a "middle ground", but you know Reapers will get away with it. Or you can manipulate all living things in galaxy, to make sure synthetics and meatbags don't fight ever again.

But yeah, if your mind and morals are clear, it shouldn't be too hard decission to make.

A dark setting is a bleak and hopeless setting. At no point during Mass Effect is this
apparant. I pretty much saved everything and everyone every time. Apart from Kaidan or Ashley you could save everyone:

ME 1: Kaidan or Ashley, both soldiers who knew the risk. Heroicly sacrificing themselves to save their friends.
ME 2: Everyone's cool here.
ME 3: Mordin: Sacrificed himself to cure the genophage. This wasn't Shephards choice but his own, his own redemption.
           Thane: Sacrificed himself to save a counciler. He himself calls this redemption, the last act of an assassin is to stop another. In addition, he was dying anyway, this death was better then dying in bed.
           Legion: Sacrificed himself to give free will to the Geth. This was his gift, his choice.

Apart from the ones in ME1 these were all choices made by the NPC's themselves! It was their sacrifice, their choice, not Shephards (the player). Besides these weren't 'hopeless' deaths, every one of them sacrificed themselves for a better world. Which is completely out of tone with a dark setting.

All conflicts between 'friendlies' could be solved peacefully by Shephard, meaning no choice was necessary at all:

ME1: Wrex
ME2: Miranda- Jack and Legion/Tali. The latter even become quite close because of this...
ME3: Turian- Krogan (Salarians cop out but don't hamper in anyway, and dissidents support shephard even when he cures the genophage). Quarian-Geth, happily ever after.        

It doesn't quite feel like a dark setting when even death is impermanent, Shephard dies and is resurrected (gloom & doom here). The Normandy is destroyed only to be rebuilt better, faster and stronger. The only species we know that was destroyed by the Reapers, as a last act of defiance, made sure the galaxy had a fighting chance next time around.
          
The central theme of Mass Effect isn't dark at all. It is about hope and courage, about fighting no matter the odds, about never giving up. All these themes are abandoned at the end, when Shephard loses hope, when he gives up. When he chooses to surrender.

All the sacrifices were made pointless when Shephard is FORCED to kill himself, which leaves the universe slightly less screwed up then was originally intended by the antagonist. It didn't become a dark sci-fi story till the last 5 minutes. When we're told that Shephard is nothing but a man, facing gods, and giving up.

Bravo sir, bravo.

[kidfusion3000]

 I haven't been on these forums as much as i have been on others, i've had nothing to input about bioware games since the begining, beyond a lot of 5/5 star ratings. I've been a long term fan of the company's productions and particularly of the mass effect series. But i have to say i am in complete agreeance with the original post. I'm not a troll, if you google me you'll see that on other forums 9/10 posts i place are in defence of developers. But the ending to this game was so terrible i had to convince myself to give it a second play through. I didn't read all 25 pages of responses but i have to post my support of the writer's position.

In prior mass effect games, resolution has been a little sparse, this is more acceptable primarily because we knew the game was going to continue. In the ending of 3 nothing is certain, the fate of the galaxy is only hinted at. We don't know what becomes of surviving teammates, if any of them survived. This negates any feeling of accomplishment. Especially in view of the arbitrary decision given to shepard by the catalyst. Mass effect has always been a game of decisions and changing the universe. Yet in the  end, there is a surprising lack of impact by what you've done. Where is the option for shepard to say "forget you! i proved by uniting the geth and the quarians that artificial and organic life can coexist, an AI that murdered a platoon of aliance soldiers has exonerated itself and serves failthfully on my crew! You're Wrong we can all exist together!" instead you get three options that destroy everything you've worked for the whole game. As if God himself descended from on high to tell shepard, "nice try kid, but the universe doesn't care what you think." Who is catalyst? where did he come from? why does he have anything to say about this? The ending to this game feels completely arbitrary and disjointed. For a gamer who has invested not only considerable money but also a good amount of time and emotion into watching a character grow and develope for 60+ hours, Shepard's final moments feel cheap and pointless, the only result is a feeling of impotence and meaninglessness.  

While i'm on the subject I have to add: from hearsay there is an ending where shepard can survive but it requires a military asset score of 5000+. Which is impossible to have unless your galactic readiness rating is over something like 80%, the fact that a score developed in a multiplayer unrelated to the main story, (or in an unrelated ipad game) can determine shepard's fate whereas his own decisions cannot, completely undermines the character driving the story. Furthermore if in 5 years i decide to give the game another run through and i want to accomplish that ending i will not be able to since the multiplayer score decreases if you don't play it. Lets be honest, are there going to be many people playing this multi then? its not like the multiplayer is even managable on a solo basis, so my ending is completely dependant on matters outside shepard's control, again defeating the whole draw of the game's decisions and severely hampering the game's replayability, and end value, since the only reason to replay the game would be to experience the different endings.

In closing, simply: the game was wonderful until the last 10 minutes, but it is possible to destroy any work of art by a poor finish. With today's distrubtion systems it would be easy to disperse to the community a correction for this travesty. which I strongly suggest to the developers. Other community members observed that the ending feels staged, as though it was poor on purpose. If it is EA's intention to charge for DLC of an alternate ending of some quality, I can say that I will reconsider ever paying for another of their productions. Making a great game (mass effect 2) better is a passable reason for charging for DLC (Lair of the Shadow Broker). Making a poor ending -and therefore a poor product- acceptable by paid DLC is a marketing strategy akin to extortion, and if that is where Bioware is being dragged by its parent company, then it is a sad day in videogame history. 

[BWGungan]

Alright, this is now head canon until further notice.

[jinxter69]

Wow...I love your ending...THAT is the ending I would PAY $$$ to play!

[Nayt Navare]

Fantastic- I appreciate both the insight and the voice. We should talk, writing teacher to writer

[geas_sama]

Eternalsteelfan, very well put. You've crystallized what I and my peers have been thinking and feeling. I enjoyed your brainstorming for a revised ending. If I thought there were a chance of ever seeing a revised one I would really enjoy pitching ideas around with you. Thank you for your work!

Sadly, I think it's awfully unlikely that BioWare (or EA, or both) will actually go through with scrapping the endings for something new. Likelier, but only just, there will be a DLC to "flesh out" the given ending into something tolerable which will almost certainly be another disappointment given it's flawed foundation.

[Jetfire99]

I just found this in the main ending thread catching up. All i can say that was a well thought out ending, that offers closure to the game and it's plot. It's not sunshine and rainbows but there's hope, there's a chance. I notably like the part with the Reapers. It was some how every fitting, the younger ones turning on their elders at last coming to understand the horror of what they are.

[Baronesa]

So many great points have been added to this thread.

Edje Edgar makes a really good post here.

This thread is a must read

[Eternalsteelfan]

kidfusion3000 wrote...

 I haven't been on these forums as much as i have been on others, i've had nothing to input about bioware games since the begining, beyond a lot of 5/5 star ratings. I've been a long term fan of the company's productions and particularly of the mass effect series. But i have to say i am in complete agreeance with the original post. I'm not a troll, if you google me you'll see that on other forums 9/10 posts i place are in defence of developers. But the ending to this game was so terrible i had to convince myself to give it a second play through. I didn't read all 25 pages of responses but i have to post my support of the writer's position.

In prior mass effect games, resolution has been a little sparse, this is more acceptable primarily because we knew the game was going to continue. In the ending of 3 nothing is certain, the fate of the galaxy is only hinted at. We don't know what becomes of surviving teammates, if any of them survived. This negates any feeling of accomplishment. Especially in view of the arbitrary decision given to shepard by the catalyst. Mass effect has always been a game of decisions and changing the universe. Yet in the  end, there is a surprising lack of impact by what you've done. Where is the option for shepard to say "forget you! i proved by uniting the geth and the quarians that artificial and organic life can coexist, an AI that murdered a platoon of aliance soldiers has exonerated itself and serves failthfully on my crew! You're Wrong we can all exist together!" instead you get three options that destroy everything you've worked for the whole game. As if God himself descended from on high to tell shepard, "nice try kid, but the universe doesn't care what you think." Who is catalyst? where did he come from? why does he have anything to say about this? The ending to this game feels completely arbitrary and disjointed. For a gamer who has invested not only considerable money but also a good amount of time and emotion into watching a character grow and develope for 60+ hours, Shepard's final moments feel cheap and pointless, the only result is a feeling of impotence and meaninglessness.  

While i'm on the subject I have to add: from hearsay there is an ending where shepard can survive but it requires a military asset score of 5000+. Which is impossible to have unless your galactic readiness rating is over something like 80%, the fact that a score developed in a multiplayer unrelated to the main story, (or in an unrelated ipad game) can determine shepard's fate whereas his own decisions cannot, completely undermines the character driving the story. Furthermore if in 5 years i decide to give the game another run through and i want to accomplish that ending i will not be able to since the multiplayer score decreases if you don't play it. Lets be honest, are there going to be many people playing this multi then? its not like the multiplayer is even managable on a solo basis, so my ending is completely dependant on matters outside shepard's control, again defeating the whole draw of the game's decisions and severely hampering the game's replayability, and end value, since the only reason to replay the game would be to experience the different endings.

In closing, simply: the game was wonderful until the last 10 minutes, but it is possible to destroy any work of art by a poor finish. With today's distrubtion systems it would be easy to disperse to the community a correction for this travesty. which I strongly suggest to the developers. Other community members observed that the ending feels staged, as though it was poor on purpose. If it is EA's intention to charge for DLC of an alternate ending of some quality, I can say that I will reconsider ever paying for another of their productions. Making a great game (mass effect 2) better is a passable reason for charging for DLC (Lair of the Shadow Broker). Making a poor ending -and therefore a poor product- acceptable by paid DLC is a marketing strategy akin to extortion, and if that is where Bioware is being dragged by its parent company, then it is a sad day in videogame history. 

Thanks for taking the time to respond, it was a good read. Fear not, I don't think anyone is suspicious that you or others with similar views are trolls; if anything, it's that we care so much for the series that we find it worth fighting for.

[dbl219]

Bringing this thread to the fore again so others have the chance to see it. Bump.

[NotCras]

Jetfire99 wrote...

I just found this in the main ending thread catching up. All i can say that was a well thought out ending, that offers closure to the game and it's plot. It's not sunshine and rainbows but there's hope, there's a chance. I notably like the part with the Reapers. It was some how every fitting, the younger ones turning on their elders at last coming to understand the horror of what they are.

Yeah i really liked the reapers turning kind of thing.  It adds a sort of redemption to the races that were processed into reapers, as well as making all those other cycles' deaths not in vain. Its perfect!

[ArmyKnifeX]

Eternalsteelfan thank you SO MUCH for posting this thread. I'm incredibly glad to see a professional screenwriter break down the reasons why this ending was bad from a writers point of view - it kinda provides a lot of evidence that we're not just crazy or flawed in some way, heh.

I suppose my one question is why Jerry Holkins from Penny-Arcade, who purports himself to be a writer, was happy with the ending.

[Senario]

I personally like your rendition of the ending. It brings the game to what I would call a bittersweet ending. Having to choose one of those characters to sacrifice just seems like an amazing point. Also it conveniently gives me a reason to kill Ashley without being renegade lol. I have no idea why I didn't save Kaiden in ME1...