831 réponses à ce sujet

[Apathy1989]

I love your ending OP. To be honest thats how I thought it would all end.

I almost think it should be a paragon interrupt though for shepherd to choose to go himself.

I would expect VS, then Garrus then Liara to volunteer (depending on who survived, Edit: and LI always last). Shepherd could paragon interrupt to stop them and go himself. Seems less bad than simply ordering them to die.

Modifié par Apathy1989, 21 mars 2012 - 07:38 .

[RKB28]

Eternalsteelfan, don´t give a crap if you are a man or woman, because of that post I love you.

[Eternalsteelfan]

ArmyKnifeX wrote...

Eternalsteelfan thank you SO MUCH for posting this thread. I'm incredibly glad to see a professional screenwriter break down the reasons why this ending was bad from a writers point of view - it kinda provides a lot of evidence that we're not just crazy or flawed in some way, heh.

I suppose my one question is why Jerry Holkins from Penny-Arcade, who purports himself to be a writer, was happy with the ending.

Writers are like anyone else, they can have vastly different opinions. Looking him up, it seems he writes webcomics and gaming articles, a more journalistic and perhaps literary pursuit; while my own writing is for the screen, which has more emphasis on coherent and consistent narrative, economy, and interpreting story into something visual. Not exactly apples to oranges, but close enough.

[rpgfan321]

Awesome post. Nice read. Something to think more about.

[Jaguar8481]

Absolutely fantastic.

[LordRaptor]

Well done...deserves a bump.

[NotCras]

What do you think will happen now that Dr Muzyka, co-founder of Bioware actually commented in our favor... well sorta. My thoughts here: http://toomuchbrainf...done-right.html

[Captain Victory]

The OP is well-written, and I bump this.

[Painaid]

Well done, OP. I especially loved your ending.

[Vhalkyrie]

I would have been happy with your alternative ending.

[FutileSine]

Thank you for your ending, in my head from now on... that's how my game ended.

[Darth_Ultima]

Deus ex machina means god in the machine. You activate the crucible and that AI/god/child thing pops out. Sounds like deus ex machina to me.

Modifié par Darth_Ultima, 22 mars 2012 - 02:27 .

[jedsithor]

I've been so tempted over the last few days to do my own rewrite of the ending, taking various choices into account. Every time I start to think about it though I go further and further back in the endgame. I started wanting to rewrite Starchild, now I'm thinking of going back as far as the race to the conduit. This time tomorrow I'll be rewriting Mass Effect 1 if I'm not careful.

[Lucas Wolfen]

Haha, like the ending even if it's a bit cliche. Cliche is better than what we got. Kudos to you and i'm glad to see you're still with us.

Hold the line!

[Kayawyn4]

Incredible read. Thank you!

[Ck213]

The thing that stuck with me it that this story goes into its low point and never comes out of it, at least for me, and then tries to wrap things up in an extremely unsatisfying way.

When Hammer company gets wiped out so easily, Shepard can barely walk, the Elusive Man shows up and Anderson is killed, and then we get a slight rise in the story with the Crucible being delivered, only to have it all dashed by this new player (Catalyst)  in the story who is behind everything. We find ourselves confused. It's a twist, but it feels like a very cheap one, so cheap they had to create the concept of this child to make it less jarring.

And so this new player begins to dictate the choices that our hero must make. All my past work with my character, and the whole choice concept of the game itself,  feels like it was a red herring to set me up for this bizarre twist. Shepard does not win, the Catalyst wins because it decided what Shepard can do, for whatever reasons it wants him/her to do it.

You can't help but feel this is not the true ending of the story because it just feels so hamfisted. I hope alternative endings are planned, because I have no desire of re-playing to the end game of ME3. It just ruins replay for me. I mean everytime I will come to interesting choices in ME1 and 2, I can't help, but think, what diffence does it make ultimately? Although the subplots are great, the main plot and its ending sucks.

[Fat Head]

That was an absolutely wonderful read. Thank you for taking the time to write all of that. I really enjoyed your ending as well.

[anonymousx]

I was expecting this post to be full of a bunch of bull but I think he hit the nail on the head.

[hanshotfirs]

Hey, I'm starting my own game company... want a job?

Maybe they can use you for the Mass Effect movie.

[jedsithor]

So I went and did it. I laid out my alternate endings. It still needs some work but I'm too tired to go back to it right now. Assuming I did this right though, you can read the current draft right now if you'd like.

ME3 Alternate Endings

Modifié par jedsithor, 22 mars 2012 - 04:05 .

[Captain Victory]

This thread got me thinking, and when I got to thinking I got to typing, I felt the need to add something to the overall discussion, whether or not it's something of 'value' is debatable, regardless...

As I've been following these forums the past week or so, I can't help but feel like I've been blessed to see people far mor eloquent/educated/driven than myself expressing notions that I can only clumsily blurt out, still, I can toss this one little tidbit out:

I refuse to believe that the ending of a player-driven, immersive trilogy like Commander Shepard's story in Mass Effect was strung together by the same people that made scenes like this possible. There are a lot of arguments that can go either way on the subject, especially concerning exactly how 'difficult' it was to string those bits of code together and make that (and other) scenes possible, or the narrative 'weight' of the scenes like meeting Fist on Omega in ME2, if he survived, or the Rachni Queen's servitors or any number of recurring bits of character interaction that stem from choices/actions in previous games. But, on the whole, I feel it's indicitave of a rushed schedule, or bad storytelling. All roads led to a conclusion that fit the framework of the story-as-directed by the player, and there was never any indication that the ending was supposed to be [as penny arcade so aptly put it] an "invincible chocolate platinum" philosophical ending. In fact, no Bioware game I've ever played has been so keen to preach the sort of rhetoric that some are attributing to the writers of ME3's ending.

• Baldur's Gate took me from stripling adventurer to the Newly-minted God of Death in the Realms.
• MDK took me on some kind ot trip, I don't remember much, except I ended up a janitor, but I was happy there.
• Neverwinter Nights was more of a Toolset than anything else, but I've told and been told many stories in that toolset, and enjoyed almost all of them, so that counts for something in my book.
• Jade Empire,  KOTOR, and Dragon Age (Origins, Awakening, and even II) all echo Baldur's Gate - you start young, impressionable, and in some cases utterly lost in a sea of possibilities before you rise to the occasion and forge your own destiny.

Mass Effect, Mass Effect 2, and admittedly, yes, most of Mass Effect 3 told me a nuanced story of a hero who's actions resonated in the world, and it was little scenes like meeting Conrad Verner time and again, or the colonists from Zhu's Hope, or any other number of encounters which sold that story wholesale; and then it ends badly, the ending is wrong. And it's wrong because all signs pointed to anything but what was given to us. And it's wrong because every other time, even when there were errors, or bugs, or hiccups, or even combat overhauls that were not even remotely my cup of tea (I'm looking at you, DA2), the story Bioware told ended -if not exactly the way I wanted it to- the way it should have. The advertisement was pretty clear - the end of Shepard's story; the beginning of the galactic war; 'take earth back' - all that good stuff - nothing about a catch-22 color wheel experiment.

That's not really a matter of opinion from where I'm standing, not with my past experience, and time invested into not only this game, but each and every one of the games I've mentioned. I can't provide any logical evidence to back myself up because there's an emotional attachment which causes me to feel instead of think. Certainly I could think about how I feel, but that would make me squirm.

More or less, If Bioware wanted to discuss philosophy via visual aids with me for $80, and had stated as such from the get-go I would have politely declined, and then asked about Jade Empire 2, or Dragon Age 3, or maybe if they were ever going to do a Baldur's Gate 3; it's not like I can even return my copy - seeing as it's on the PC. I honestly feel a little betrayed, and I dare say ripped off - '90% good' does not make up for the part where the invincible platinum chocolate begins to taste like week-old fish.

I suppose the point I'm laboring to make here amidst all this rambling is this: Thank you Eternalsteelfan, for an excellent post which went a long way toward helping me figure out exactly what I wanted to say without feeling like a buffoon.

Modifié par Captain Victory, 23 mars 2012 - 12:55 .

[Portia Cousland]

@OP - loved your concept for the ending - so simple yet elegant. This is truly the end that my Sheps could live with. I *love* that Shep can choose to either make the sacrifice herself or send one of her squad mates. Excellent!

[Norker]

Thanks Eternalsteelfan!

Well written post and I enjoyed reading it.

Captain Victory wrote...

This thread got me thinking, and when I got to thinking I got to typing, I felt the need to add something to the overall discussion, whether or not it's something of 'value' is debatable, regardless...

As I've been following these forums the past week or so, I can't help but feel like I've been blessed to see people far mor eloquent/educated/driven than myself expressing notions that I can only clumsily blurt out, still, I can toss this one little tidbit out:

I refuse to believe that the ending of a player-driven, immersive trilogy like Commander Shepard's story in Mass Effect was strung together by the same people that made scenes like this possible. There are a lot of arguments that can go either way on the subject, especially concerning exactly how 'difficult' it was to string those bits of code together and make that (and other) scenes possible, or the narrative 'weight' of the scenes like meeting Fist on Omega in ME2, if he survived, or the Rachni Queen's servitors or any number of recurring bits of character interaction that stem from choices/actions in previous games. But, on the whole, I feel it's indicitave of a rushed schedule, or bad storytelling. All roads led to a conclusion that fit the framework of the story-as-directed by the player, and there was never any indication that the ending was supposed to be [as penny arcade so aptly put it] an "invincible cholocate platinum" philosophical ending. In fact, no Bioware game I've ever played has been so keen to preach the sort of rhetoric that some are attributing to the writers of ME3's ending.

• Baldur's Gate took me from stripling adventurer to the Newly-minted God of Death in the Realms.
• MDK took me on some kind ot trip, I don't remember much, except I ended up a janitor, but I was happy there.
• Neverwinter Nights was more of a Toolset than anything else, but I've told and been told many stories in that toolset, and enjoyed almost all of them, so that counts for something in my book.Jade Empire,  KOTOR, and Dragon Age (Origins, Awakening, and even II) all echo Baldur's Gate - you start young, impressionable, and in some cases utterly lost in a sea of possibilities before you rise to the occasion and forge your own destiny.

Mass Effect, Mass Effect 2, and admittedly, yes, most of Mass Effect 3 told me a nuanced story of a hero who's actions resonated in the world, and it was little scenes like meeting Conrad Verner time and again, or the colonists from Zhu's Hope, or any other number of encounters which sold that story wholesale; and then it ends badly, the ending is wrong. And it's wrong because all signs pointed to anything but what was given to us. And it's wrong because every other time, even when there were errors, or bugs, or hiccups, or even combat overhauls that were not even remotely my cup of tea (I'm looking at you, DA2), the story Bioware told ended -if not exactly the way I wanted it to- the way it should have. The advertisement was pretty clear - the end of Shepard's story; the beginning of the galactic war; 'take earth back' - all that good stuff - nothing about a catch-22 color wheel experiment.

That's not really a matter of opinion from where I'm standing, not with my past experience, and time invested into not only this game, but each and every one of the games I've mentioned. I can't provide any logical evidence to back myself up because there's an emotional attachment which causes me to feel instead of think. Certainly I could think about how I feel, but that would make me squirm.

More or less, If Bioware wanted to discuss philosophy via visual aids with me for $80, and had stated as such from the get-go I would have politely declined, and then asked about Jade Empire 2, or Dragon Age 3, or maybe if they were ever going to do a Baldur's Gate 3; it's not like I can even return my copy - seeing as it's on the PC. I honestly feel a little betrayed, and I dare say ripped off - '90% good' does not make up for the part where the invincible platinum chocolate begins to taste like week-old fish.

I suppose the point I'm laboring to make here amidst all this rambling is this: Thank you Eternalsteelfan, for an excellent post which went a long way toward helping me figure out exactly what I wanted to say without feeling like a buffoon.

Thanks,
you caught my sentiment very well.

My take was: They promised me a trip to the candy store but took me to the dentist.

Building on my expectations and then playing with them is just a cheap trick, some sort of marking territory (This is our IP and we will do with it whatever we want). And as you have pointed out so well, their previous games and esp. ME1, ME2 and 90% of ME3 gave no indication they'd pull a stunt like that.

[Eternalsteelfan]

Captain Victory wrote...

This thread got me thinking, and
when I got to thinking I got to typing, I felt the need to add something
to the overall discussion, whether or not it's something of 'value' is
debatable, regardless...

As I've been following these forums the
past week or so, I can't help but feel like I've been blessed to see
people far mor eloquent/educated/driven than myself expressing notions
that I can only clumsily blurt out, still, I can toss this one little
tidbit out:

I refuse to believe that the ending of a
player-driven, immersive trilogy like Commander Shepard's story in Mass
Effect was strung together by the same people that made scenes like this possible.
There are a lot of arguments that can go either way on the subject,
especially concerning exactly how 'difficult' it was to string those
bits of code together and make that (and other) scenes possible, or the
narrative 'weight' of the scenes like meeting Fist on Omega in ME2, if
he survived, or the Rachni Queen's servitors or any number of recurring
bits of character interaction that stem from choices/actions in previous
games. But, on the whole, I feel it's indicitave of a rushed schedule,
or bad storytelling. All roads led to a conclusion that fit the
framework of the story-as-directed by the player, and there was never
any indication that the ending was supposed to be [as penny arcade so aptly put it] an "invincible cholocate platinum"
philosophical ending. In fact, no Bioware game I've ever played has
been so keen to preach the sort of rhetoric that some are attributing to
the writers of ME3's ending...

(*snip* It gets all shot to hell when I try to quote it)

Good read, thanks for taking the time.

hanshotfirs wrote...

Hey, I'm starting my own game company... want a job?

Maybe they can use you for the Mass Effect movie.

Seems legit, I'll consider all job offers sent to inbox

[LittleSusie]

I just love you:)
If you could make such a good point while writing a "stream of conscious", why did not the actual writers for the ending do anything at least equally good while given more time & resources?!