45 réponses à ce sujet

[Sinfulvannila]

AgenTBC wrote...

pffft. Planescape: Torment.

I've shed many a tear from that game, tears of boredom...

[RPGmom28]

Never did the Connor negative thing in this game, but I just watched it on YouTube because I don't think I'll ever be able to bring myself to do it. And you're right. Heart-wrenching. Chills.

Modifié par RPGmom28, 28 novembre 2009 - 09:31 .

[exorzist]

The scenes with the king and duncan ... very emotional for me

[exorzist]

The scenes with the king and duncan ... very emotional for me

[KnightofPhoenix]

marshalleck wrote...

It's just a video game.

Video games are now imposing themselves as a new genre / method in story telling. A good video game is one which can stir up emotions.

This game made me sad, but it was not due to the Redcliff situation. Althought it was a complicated part of the story.

[Aikidude]

double post is double...



anyhow, yes that scene was brilliant. I am thinking of going to use it as an example in my essay on Games as a form of art.

[Kinaori]

Honestly, I am very much prone to tearing up for a good story.



Despite having an absolutely phenomenal story and build-up and individual moments, the way the epilogue was presented in this game prevented me from having an emotional reaction at the end.



This is actually the first time in a while that an otherwise excellent story has *not* caused me to shed tears. I just sort of sat there in shock at being presented with... what I was presented with



Anyway, I actually never played Redcliffe that way - but it sounds like it could certainly be well done.

[VanDraegon]

I agree with your thoughts, OP.



I should have made my post here instead of the thread i just started. I am a new father with a 7 month old son. I just took a knife to Arl Eammon's son as he lay unconscious. No game has made me feel like this before.....

[Mnemnosyne]

adam_nox wrote...

Koyasha wrote...

What I really wanted was an option to kill Isolde directly, and tell her why. I usually pick the blood magic ritual just because it kills her. And then I make a deal with the demon, so her sacrifice is for nothing. Reasons be damned, she aught to be executed for what she's done. Jowan tried to kill ONE GUY, and he regretted it. Her actions caused the deaths of hundreds, and she never really takes full responsibility for it if you let her live.

That's a bit of a stretch.  Firstly, the story with the kid able to rip open the fade is silly, or the circle would have been destroyed by kids long ago.  Secondly, you don't really know if it was jowan or the kid at this point in the game, and honestly you don't 100% ever know.  Thirdly, unknowingly making the world vulnerable to the malicious intentions of a demon is not nearly as wrong as knowingly trying to murder someone.  The demon is really to blame for the trouble, assign blame where it's deserved and don't try to multiply it.

He didn't rip open the fade, and you do know what happened if you talk to him about it.  Connor himself tells you - after Jowan was imprisoned for poisoning the Arl, he snuck into his room and looked through the books that Jowan never let him look at, because he wanted to help his father, since his mother was so sad.  Presumably the ones on blood magic and such.  He got the attention of the demon, who talked to him in his dreams, offered to help, naturally being only a kid he was easily duped and agreed to some very bad terms to the deal.

The kid isn't really to blame - he didn't know better.  Isolde, on the other hand, is entirely to blame.  She intentionally hid him from the Circle of Magi and the Templars, and she knows full well that this is exactly the sort of thing that the Circle is meant to prevent, but she intentionally endangered the lives of everyone around, and got what clearly seems like hundreds of people - most of the soldiers in the castle as well as who knows how many townsfolk died before you even arrived - killed.  She is in no way ignorant of the danger or the reasons behind the rules she was trying to break.  That's not unknowingly making the world vulnerable - that's making the world vulnerable with full and complete knowledge.  Like anyone who intentionally breaks rules put in place for the safety of themselves and others, they can in no way plead ignorance.

The demon I don't blame at all.  She seems quite the reasonable individual when you negotiate with her, and she's just doing what is in her nature to do.  From how she keeps her deal with you, if you're a mage and negotiate with her, it's clear she's pretty much an honest bargainer.  Had the kid instead been a mage that knew what he was doing and could make a favorable deal, it seems likely she would have honored that deal, as well.

[Vinditater]

Eh? This part wasn't that sad. She whined alot, especially after repeatedly trying to kill Connor, and she miraculously shows up each time to cry about it. At the last point, I was like "Good Lord, can't I punch this lady in the face..." and then it gave me the option to do so. With a gauntleted fist.



Although I will say, if your child does indeed become inhabited by a desire demon of the Fade, and you cannot find away around it without murdering someone, I can understand your pain.

[marshalleck]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

It's just a video game.

Video games are now imposing themselves as a new genre / method in story telling. A good video game is one which can stir up emotions.

This game made me sad, but it was not due to the Redcliff situation. Althought it was a complicated part of the story.

I think this medium is still far from what movies or theater are capable of. And far from books of course, but that almost goes without saying. Why? Because of the fickle tastes of video game consumers. Innovation, depth, complexity are words that lots of people throw around as something they desire in a game, but when those games come along they are routinely ignored or slandered for defying convention. Just look at some of the reactions to DAO's supposedly mature themes and situations: shock, confusion, anger. Bioware are largely prevented from creating something truly epic and stirring due to the economic realities they have to contend with: they have to please the lowest common denominator in order to drive sales.

Bioware always do it better than everyone else, and I love them for that, but at the end of the day I feel like their hands are tied by their very own audience. Gamers are on average a pathological lot. They complain about rehashed ideas, bemoan the overuse of the same old character archetypes. But when it comes time to spend money, where do they flock? World of Warcraft, Modern Warfare 2.

Modifié par marshalleck, 29 novembre 2009 - 01:54 .

[RafaelKOz]

For me, it was the ending... since I'd gone to a lot of trouble to set Alistair and Anora up as king and queen, and since I turned Morrigan down (admittedly believing that as she was at +100 friendly and the dialogue about being my friend, I thought she would stay... oopsie... but it wouldn't have gone with the very noble and nice was I playing anyway) I figured... ah well, I'll just make damn sure Riordan takes the final shot. I'm a tactical genius. Whatever it takes to make that work...



Then I got a certain cutscene (AFTER choosing to leave Alistair behind, Bioware having of course made sure of that piece of timing, very sneaky), and pretty much knew what I'd bought myself, and so it was.



The combination of the funeral speech, the aftermath (including Alistair and Fergus's pieces), and the (romanced) Leliana epilogue description got me to tear up.



It doesn't happen often. Celes' suicide attempt in FF6, what, 15 years ago? That was the first time (and repeated with Shadow's part of the ending in the same game; FF6 remains my favourite game of all time). Ending of FF10 also. A couple of moments in Persona 3. That's about all.



Most games simply don't try to build up that level of empathy for the characters, or don't do it well enough, or don't do it and then create an effective tragic moment. It's rare, even in RPGs. Character deaths and NPC deaths happen all the time, it takes a lot more than that (even the Human Noble origin story here didn't get me crying, for example, because I wasn't invested enough in the characters there; but 60-80 hours later, I was certainly invested enough in my player character and Leliana, and kudos to BIoware for that- I note it's the first time ever I've cried over a player character too, which goes to show how far Dragon Age lets you project a personality onto the player character instead of just a voiceless guy listening to other people's lines)

[Raxtoren]

Psiok wrote...

My 2nd play through and I thought I'd chose the 'non-heroic' route.  All was swell until I hit Redcliffe and did the Conner storyline.  Any parent that can watch that unfold and not be disturbed isn't human.  I've never had a computer game instill that type of emotion in me.  Kudo's to the actors involved. 

Play more games.

Even Lost odyssey with its deathscene (when kaim find her dying daughter) is 1000x more emtional.

[Axterix]

marshalleck wrote...

I think this medium is still far from what movies or theater are capable of. And far from books of course, but that almost goes without saying. Why? Because of the fickle tastes of video game consumers. Innovation, depth, complexity are words that lots of people throw around as something they desire in a game, but when those games come along they are routinely ignored or slandered for defying convention. Just look at some of the reactions to DAO's supposedly mature themes and situations: shock, confusion, anger. Bioware are largely prevented from creating something truly epic and stirring due to the economic realities they have to contend with: they have to please the lowest common denominator in order to drive sales.

It has one huge advantage over movies and books though, that being the interactivity.  You watch a movie, you might feel bad, but it isn't you that made it happen, it isn't you that could have stopped it from happening.  Well, you could have stopped the movie or walked out, but that is it.  In games, at least this one, you could have.  You are part of it.

Bioware always do it better than everyone else, and I love them for that, but at the end of the day I feel like their hands are tied by their very own audience. Gamers are on average a pathological lot. They complain about rehashed ideas, bemoan the overuse of the same old character archetypes. But when it comes time to spend money, where do they flock? World of Warcraft, Modern Warfare 2.

No different than movies though.  Twilight and Transformers for the win, both with even worse sequels that still made tons of money.

[3SG Sage]

I had already cleared the mage tower and figured they owed me so I went for the full happy ending (save everyone). Got the option by my tendency to always ask if there is another option. I didn't think time was really an issue (meta-gaming) because you can waltz across the map many times with nothing changing. (Although a few things will go bad if you ignore them too long).



But I do understand the deep in your gut dread of such a scene. As a parent myself I always cringe when I see bad things happen to kids in movies, game, or books (or real life). Hits too close to personal fears for one's own child's safety and the knowledge it is impossible to protect them from every danger 24/7.

[Fishy]

**SPOILER* Dalish ELF!!

Nah the most intense moment it's when you find tamren in your camp has a Ghoul and he beg you to kill him.. I simply ran away from him because i roleplayed a good friend of him .. than my group killed him and they all walked off like nothing happenned .. Well than Allistair told me it's was the best choice and walked away..

Yes Allistair .. you know the guy who cry 24/24 and want to feel accepted and need a shoulder to cry for the entire game?Well the Hero got zero compassion from every character.. It's just pissed me off and i started to act evil in the game . Not caring either for anyone else.Since no character care about the HERO feeling!

Than i realize no one give a hell damn about the Hero .. but the Hero need to help everyone with their retarded problem.

Wynne - It's your DUTY!! Save the world .. protect the WEAK .. Help your companion!
-What about me?
-You're childish ..

.. No you're a Old hag that keep crying about your retarded Circle of Magi and want me to run in a wet forest to find some mage so you can apologize to him..Who's the childish one?

Modifié par Suprez30, 30 novembre 2009 - 05:53 .

[JKoopman]

Meh... the first time I ever cried in a game was when Aerith died in FF7. Granted I was only 15 at the time...

[CoM Solaufein]

I felt guilty killing him myself and ended up reloading the game. I had to go way over to the Mages Tower, do that quest and have them perform the ritual so I could get into the Fade.

Modifié par CoM Solaufein, 30 novembre 2009 - 08:53 .

[Original182]

Isolde killing Connor was the worst thing my character could ever let happen. When I did it, it was an accident. I just wanted to see if I could go in Arl Eamon's room. But it triggered the event where Isolde then had to kill Connor herself.



Easily the most disturbing scene in the game for me. Coming close behind, are the pre-Broodmother scene, and defling Andraste's ashes.

[Walina]

Psiok wrote...

My 2nd play through and I thought I'd chose the 'non-heroic' route.  All was swell until I hit Redcliffe and did the Conner storyline.  Any parent that can watch that unfold and not be disturbed isn't human.  I've never had a computer game instill that type of emotion in me.  Kudo's to the actors involved. 

I don't know a lot of rpg pc game but, I know other game who made me fee wrose thant al I had to do is to replay the to found a solution and fortunaly for me there were a way most of the time.