33 réponses à ce sujet

[Monkeylamp]

To start off with a thank you for a great game.

Played through all origins and played through main story 4 times now. Somehow always end up with simmilar choices (have hard time being evil even towards pixels). No matter what choices you make i guess you end up killing archdemon and stopping blight, so even if you try playing as evil as you can be you will rid Ferelden of the Blight.

Now out of all the 6 origins only Daelish elf somehow works well with main story. This is the only one thats infected before joining the wardens. You get sick and out pops Duncan and lets you know that you might aswell join now that you are sick and do some good.
Denerim Elf is as far off as you can get. Somehow i just find it hard to imagine me saving Ferelden, i just wanna watch it burn. To hell with humans. If you could talk to Darkspawn i would be on the frontlines atacking Ostragar. My life is ruined and this seemingly first decent human ever offers to help me, but instead lets me drink poison that is gonna make me go crazy and kill me in 2 decades. Man both him and that anoying Allistair would end up with a knife sticking out from their backs before the Darkspawn ever got the chance.

Mage and both dwarfs are kinda similar, you get into a heap of trouble and out comes Duncan and offers salvation in a bottle of poison that shortens your lifespan. It is better than accepting what was coming to you, but out of all 3 all i think about is going back home and setting things straight. Blight was the least of my worries.

Now human is not as bad as Denerim elf but not far off, well atleast when it comes to motivation to stop the blight. Im the last of my family and you just poisoned me and made sure i cant have kids! Whusdat u say Duncan Blight?? S***w you B*****d, Im off!! Im gonna pay our pal Howe a visit.

Modifié par Monkeylamp, 28 novembre 2009 - 09:05 .

[Melra]

Not fighting the darkspawn would destroy the whole purpose of being Grey Warden. The Darkspawn can sense Grey Wardens, so even if you watched Ferelden burn, you'd end up dying alone surrounded by the whole horde. Your character must've been suicidal or handicapped, if he/she would've let him/herself die just because he/she refused to fight with others to save his/her life.

[Baalzie]

Well the only setback is that the whole story is based on the fact that You agree to all this and agree to keep going... But then hello! Noone can make a totally open storydriven game... Then the "story" bit would be kinda totally and hopelessly lost ye see?

[koshiee]

that was my gripe as well. Basically Duncan tricks you and poisons you, thus forcing you to become a Grey Warden and the story never really addresses that. I played as the mage and basically you're forced to join the Circle of Magi where they take a vial of your blood so they can track you down and kill you if you ever leave. Then they force you to undergo the harrowing where they will kill you if you don't pass. Then Duncan catches you btwn a rock and hard place and then uses that to force you to join the Grey Wardens and also poisons you. And since the story gives you no information about your family, there's really no reason to want to save Feralden after all the Grey Wardens there die in Ostagar. You barely know Alistair and frankly given the fact that the plot makes it clear that if Feralden falls the Blight can still be stopped by other countries w/ other Grey Wardens why do I give a crap if Feralden falls? I've been screwed over left and right in Feralden and in the absence of any personal connection (which the plot never provides) let it burn for all I care. I'll find the Grey Wardens in Orlais and/or try to find my own cure in Tevinter where mages are more free.



There were so many plot holes in DAO. DAO was an epic fail in terms of plot.

[Zenon]

I don't think so. Each origin gives the PC an incentive to become a Grey Warden. In fact I think, the Dalish has the least interest in saving the mostly by humans inhabited country. He joins Duncan, because he has to in order to survive. The others have a less grim choice between prison (City Elf) and even freedom (Mage).



Basically each has an interest to join the Grey Wardens. After Ostagar the PC would be dead if it were not for Flemeth. Without the betrayal of Loghain the PC would probably not have been overwhelmed by Darkspawn in the tower. After Ostagar all of Ferelden is at the brink of destruction. It is as Morrigan sais before entering Lothering: The PC could just turn his/her back to Ferelden and hope for other Grey Wardens from Orlais to be eventually successful in defeating the archdemon and ending the blight. But of course this is not an acceptable choice for the PC, who now has a personal interest in getting back at Loghain.

[Setz69]

The blight doesn't just stop in Fereldan. It would spread, all over the world. So regardless of whether your good/evil, hate humans, hate dwarfs, hate everyone, your going to fight against it, because if you don't your dead. Regardless of how evil and selfish you are, living will be a priority.

[Cuuniyevo]

I thought it worked quite well for my Dwarven Noble. I was struck from the records and lost my caste. Not only that, but I became sun-touched. So for me, my only hope of redemption in Dwarven society was to die honorably in battle. Whether it be in the Legion of the Dead or the Grey Wardens is irrelevant, the point is I was set on dying as soon as I walked under the sky. As an Elven Mage, I actually wanted to join the Grey Wardens. They represented a chance for me to be free of all the restrictions that had been placed on my life from childhood in the Alienage all the way to living under the constant supervision of the Templars. Yes, joining the Grey Wardens means death eventually, but my character would rather die free than live in the Circle Tower for the rest of his life, trying not to upset an antsy Templar.



It all boils down to how (or whether) you roleplay I guess…

[Ulyn]

Actually, if you do the Circle of Magi plotline like I did - cooperating with the first Enchanter from the start, on the grounds that helping Jowan risks death and destruction for many people - you're in no trouble at all, really.

They purposefully made the tattle-tale circle-minion option a bit unpleasant - Irving makes the situation even graver for the young couple just so he can play politics with the Templars, and when you balk he says something like you've already done this much, why balk now? Delicious little twist of the knife there, I appreciated the care that went into it.

Even at that point, just having started the game, I didn't consider reloading and trying to help Jowan and Lily escape, even when I didn't know it was impossible and I'd be getting in trouble for  nothing.  Even a succsesful escape would have been like giving a kid a loaded gun.  I suspected Jowan could be hiding something, if not blood magic than something else.  I never minded Jowan as a person, particularly as his guilt-ridden, hapless storyline unfolded in the rest of the game; I vaguely hoped the post-apocalypse circle might give him some sort of reprieve in the wake of the rebellion.  But loyalty that endangers who knows how many other people is no loyalty at all, so I'll always go that route with Mage origin.

At any rate; as a result I felt in no real trouble at all when Duncan inducts me.  Gregoir was angry and demanded repercussions for your entering areas where noone is permitted except he and Irving, but given the circumstances there's basically no danger, Irving backs you up to the hilt in the dialog.

So did I feel tricked and poisoned?  No, not really, any more than I would have in real life.  The world is at risk of being wiped out by monsters, who between their gibbit-and-impalement motif and the Dead Trenches come off as one of the darker Armies of Darkness in recent memory.  And it's implied - by Alistair's acquiescence in the coverup - that secretive hero-poisoning is the only way the anti-evil superhero force can operate, even if this requires some suspension of disbelief.  If I were RPing a self-centered person I might take some of the "Man, I hated the Circle, damn Templar goons" or "Wardens smardens, is there money in this for me" dialog choices, but the game is about saving the world and there's only so far it can cater to that.

[Zenon]

koshiee wrote...

that was my gripe as well. Basically Duncan tricks you and poisons you, thus forcing you to become a Grey Warden and the story never really addresses that. I played as the mage and basically you're forced to join the Circle of Magi where they take a vial of your blood so they can track you down and kill you if you ever leave. Then they force you to undergo the harrowing where they will kill you if you don't pass. Then Duncan catches you btwn a rock and hard place and then uses that to force you to join the Grey Wardens and also poisons you. And since the story gives you no information about your family, there's really no reason to want to save Feralden after all the Grey Wardens there die in Ostagar. You barely know Alistair and frankly given the fact that the plot makes it clear that if Feralden falls the Blight can still be stopped by other countries w/ other Grey Wardens why do I give a crap if Feralden falls? I've been screwed over left and right in Feralden and in the absence of any personal connection (which the plot never provides) let it burn for all I care. I'll find the Grey Wardens in Orlais and/or try to find my own cure in Tevinter where mages are more free.

There were so many plot holes in DAO. DAO was an epic fail in terms of plot.

I have a totally different opinion:

From the codex you learn a lot about the world and it's background. You should know why mages are being brought to the circle and locked up in the tower. In fact if you want to get out of the tower as a mage, then the most probable choices are as a lord's advisor or as a Grey Warden.

Other origins have also reason enough to join with Duncan. Once they joined the Grey Wardens they have hardly any choice but act like a Grey Warden. It's fate and destiny of all Grey Wardens to fight the Darkspawn.

The joining ritual involving submitting the recruit to the taint is necessary and the essential quality a Grey Warden must have. The danger of drinking the poisonous blood is obvious. But why a Grey Warden has to go through the ritual becomes apparent at the end of the story.

The question is, if the blight can still be stopped once it infested all of Ferelden. I dare to doubt it. The Darkspawn are multiplying like a virus and chances are they will grow too strong faster than Loghain would be able to move against them. And without a Grey Warden he wouldn't be able to stop the blight. He wouldn't let any Orlaisian enter Ferelden, not even Grey Wardens. That would end in Orlais being forced to wage war against the Darkspawn and Loghain at the same time ending most likely in whole Ferelden and quite likely Orlais being sooner or later destroyed by the blight. How will the Darkspawn be stopped then? Quite likely never.

Modifié par Zenon, 28 novembre 2009 - 09:50 .

[Timespike]

Playing through the city elf origin left me with the feeling that this character would kill EVERYBODY at every opportunity. If I wind up finishing that playthrough, he will never spare anyone, ever, no matter how much use or how right sparing them is.

[Zenon]

Timespike wrote...

Playing through the city elf origin left me with the feeling that this character would kill EVERYBODY at every opportunity. If I wind up finishing that playthrough, he will never spare anyone, ever, no matter how much use or how right sparing them is.

The City Elf is from my point of view the one most likely sparing the life of Zeveran and possibly wanting to support elves, who are being put down by humans. Possibly the dwarf noble, having lost everything, having been a promising candidate to become king of the dwarves, is most likely to hate everybody. But then again in this background it seems the dwarf noble is honorable and dutiful...

[ToJKa1]

Regarding the "poisoning", two quotes from the game explain the situation pretty good:



Daveth: "Maybe you die, maybe we all die, but if no one stops the darkspawn, we'll die for sure."

Duncan: "You have been called to submit yourself to the taint for the greater good."



Desperate times call for desperate measures, is how i understood it. Sure, it no doubt sucks being tainted, but sacrificing ones own well being for the good of others is what heroes do, right?

[Zenon]

Since this is the spoiler forum:



Only a Grey Warden can kill an archdemon. But only because of being exposed to the taint through the joining. Destroying the archdemon is the key to victory over the Darkspawn.



This ritual has been conducted for centuries. It is not just a desperate measure, but a necessary tradition. The taint poisons the Grey Warden, but also proviedes him his unique powers like sensing Darkspawn and ultimately being able to kill an archdemon. Maybe if the black city is cleaned up one day, the need for Grey Wardens will diminish...

[ToJKa1]

Zenon wrote...
Only a Grey Warden can kill an archdemon. But only because of being exposed to the taint through the joining. Destroying the archdemon is the key to victory over the Darkspawn.

There is that too, and it is also the reason that makes it necessary. One has to wonder how desperate the first Grey Wardens were to try something like that. Well, after Origins, there's only two more Archdemons to go, unless you did the "ritual"

[houdinimachine]

koshiee wrote...

that was my gripe as well. Basically Duncan tricks you and poisons you, thus forcing you to become a Grey Warden and the story never really addresses that. I played as the mage and basically you're forced to join the Circle of Magi where they take a vial of your blood so they can track you down and kill you if you ever leave. Then they force you to undergo the harrowing where they will kill you if you don't pass. Then Duncan catches you btwn a rock and hard place and then uses that to force you to join the Grey Wardens and also poisons you. And since the story gives you no information about your family, there's really no reason to want to save Feralden after all the Grey Wardens there die in Ostagar. You barely know Alistair and frankly given the fact that the plot makes it clear that if Feralden falls the Blight can still be stopped by other countries w/ other Grey Wardens why do I give a crap if Feralden falls? I've been screwed over left and right in Feralden and in the absence of any personal connection (which the plot never provides) let it burn for all I care. I'll find the Grey Wardens in Orlais and/or try to find my own cure in Tevinter where mages are more free.

There were so many plot holes in DAO. DAO was an epic fail in terms of plot.

My first playthrough was of a loyalist mage. It was actually quite easy to roleplay it since you can have a conversation where you basically tell Duncan that you want him to recruit you.

[Sabin Stargem]

I have a theory on how the Wardens were first created, though I admit that I haven't fully played through the game yet. The idea is simple:

Initially, poisoning someone with Darkspawn blood was a punishment, meant to inflict pain and to debase the victim's humanity. However, someone survived, which suprised everyone involved. Furthermore, that survivor could sense Darkspawn. People started trying out the blood for one reason or another, and so the Wardens were formed. In this context, it actually makes sense to recruit Loghain, because the Joining is a ritual based upon the idea of punishment and possible redemption.

Modifié par Sabin Stargem, 29 novembre 2009 - 01:16 .

[Alphram]

I admit I had some problems with this whole thing with certain, but not all, of my characters. I guess it's on how you role play them really. It seems the 2 easiest ones to accept the new Warden role are the Human and Dwarf Nobles, but it requires more depth than could be put in I think. Your character, in these 2 backgrounds, would, theoretically, be raised on the whole notion of duty. So, even though I was immensly peeved at not being able to search for my brother or go after Howe as a human noble, I at least understood what had to be done.



The Dalish too, would at least be raised with a notion of duty to the clan, and could accept the role, not only to save his/her own skin, but to save his clan as well.



Mage was the hardest one to accept, since I did the whole "working with Irving" plot. I had no desire or reason to be a Warden. That seemed the most jarring hand of fate method, thanks for nothing Irving



I suppose it boils down to how much anger/hate your character has by the time he's drafted. Certain of those origins can give you a real mad on, and I can sure see how they might cut Alistair's throat while he's sleeping and run for the border at the first opportunity, to hell with everyone else. Not everyone can put their emotions aside and do the logical thing, just look at Alistair lol.

[Vormaerin]

My city elf rather gloated at being part of the Gray Wardens. First of all, Duncan provided the sword that let me put an end to the problem and, secondly, he let me thumb my nose at the guards when they came to get me. Life a gray warden is certainly no worse than living in a ghetto like the alienage and the Blight will kill all the elves the same as it will men and dwarves.

[Exile Isan]

Agreed, Vormaerin. I played a female city elf my first playthrough, much like Daveth, joining the Grey Wardens not only gave her a chance to live (where as staying in Denerim meant swinging from the gallows) but also a chance to give other elves someone to look up to, and to protect her family (Cyrion, Shianni, and Soris) from the darkspawn.

[bobsmyuncle]

The mage origin works if you played it as I did, where I went ahead and helped Jowan. I actually wanted an option to destroy all the phylacteries just to be a pain in the ass for the Chantry, even though I know the templars would just craft new ones.



Even if you work with Irving, he has only so much control within the Tower. You did help a blood mage after all and Greagoir really wants you dead (or Tranquil I guess).



Your death is assured whether you stay or leave (being Tranquil isn't living, you heard me Owain), why not walk out of there and do some good out from under the Chantry's bootheel?

[trh5001]

I think the human noble origin works pretty well with the wanting revenge on Howe and also not really having anything left why not go kill some darkspawn and maybe get a little revenge. Also there are a few moments in that origin were you can comment on how you might want to actually join the Grey Wardens regardless.

[Exile Isan]

trh5001 wrote...

I think the human noble origin works pretty well with the wanting revenge on Howe and also not really having anything left why not go kill some darkspawn and maybe get a little revenge. Also there are a few moments in that origin were you can comment on how you might want to actually join the Grey Wardens regardless.

It's also a chance to find your brother, which doesn't work out so well, but heh, it's the thought right?

[MitchellTF]

Hey, you DO find your bro! At...the very end of the game.

[Exile Isan]

I know and it seems way to tacked on to be likeable. If there had been some hint that he was still alive somewhere throughout the game it would have been as bad, IMO.

[Saurel]

I don't have much to add , but ya I think Dalish Elf has the best segway. Human Noble has the worst...I would be utterly consumed with hunting down Howe .