504 réponses à ce sujet

[Elhanan]

gekkemarvin wrote...

If you used your ''intelligent'' and read the reviews, you will see that they liked 99% of the game
but the ending was their experience where it gone wrong. Its their opinion. You can have a discussion
if they deserve this low rating or not, but its a fact that the ending ruined it for most of the fanbase.

No, it is conjecture and speculation that the offended comprise the majority of the fan base; not fact. Yelling, kicking, and throwing fits may be more noticeable, but it does not make it most of the children at the dinner table doing so, per se.

While I agree that it is recommended to read through these reviews (often what I do before making some puchases), I do wonder on how many of the offended actually go to source materials themselves before their complaining gets posted. I am reading a lot of grapevine comments from some in this thread alone regarding Bioware, EA, etc, amd wonder if this worse on the ME3 forums.

[cljqnsnyc]

If the sales go deep south in the coming weeks, then I'd say it was more than just a few screaming children at the dinner table. After all, if you came to the table because you were promised top sirloin, began eating it.........yummy, only to realize that what you were eating looked and tasted like top sirlion, but turned out to be ground beef instead. Would you be just a little upset?

Aside from that, the problem Bioware is facing isn't just the amount of people upset, but the amount of noise this whole fiasco has generated. THAT is what will cause people who might have purchased the game to stop and think a minute. If you shop at Gamestop, the guy/gal at the counter would have to explain why you see sooo many returned copies. If you were shopping there and saw a number of used copies of a brand new game on the shelf, would you buy it?

However you look at it, all this bad press isn't good for Bioware

...unless they wanted it this way from the start, which is what I'm starting to believe more and more.

It's the only explanation that makes any sense at all.

Modifié par cljqnsnyc, 17 mars 2012 - 05:54 .

[SalsaDMA]

*net messed up and double posted.

deleted the content of the superflous post.

Modifié par SalsaDMA, 17 mars 2012 - 06:27 .

[LilyasAvalon]

Navasha wrote...

Please..... everyone knows that most consumer reviews are worthless reads. Its usually about a dozen POd people who created 30 user names each.

Those PODs must be dedicated people then to write several large and uniquely different reviews then.

[SalsaDMA]

Ronin1325 wrote...

SalsaDMA wrote...

The issues I asume riling up people is the blatant disregard for the thinking consumer.

There were/are statements that specifically said/says that

a) the endings would be varied and take your choices into account while being a closure.
multiplayer would not be required to get the best ending.

Both of these statements seems blatantly false as people have started getting their hands dirty on the actual game.

Add
Origin-required, day 1 DLC, a targeted advert at the end of the game to
entice people to buy more DLC in the future and a general 'we want more
money for less product' atmosphere to some of the choices Bioware are
doing lately and you end up with a lot of people that just get pissed
off at being treated like dumb cashcows.

That's my asumption for the backlash, anyway.

Don't respect the consumer, and the consumer will start loosing respect for you too.

Gosh, more illogical entitled whining SalsaDMA? Haven't we heard enough of that? [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/wink.png[/smilie] 

And
still nobody seems to want to deal with Casey Hudson's public
statements about what the ending of ME3 would be. If we are all so
off-base then it should be a relatively simple matter to go through the
article & show how every thing he said was indeed shown in what we
got.

Save your petty insults for the mirror, mate.

Are you arguing that MP isn't required for getting the best ending in SP?
Are you arguing that there aren't day 1-DLC?
That Origin isn't required for ME3 PC version?
That after the end Bioware hits the player with a "Buy more DLC" advert?
Or that the endings are truly varied and adds closure?

Cause if you aren't (and to be honest, nothing in your post touches on those as far as I can see), your reply just comes of as a random insult against a random person.

[Bantz]

Here's my issue, in Casey's "statement" he mentions how they are getting great reviews so the game must be good right? I've said this everytime someone mentions rating the game from a fan standpoint. While I believe the game prior to the endings was damn near perfect, if we rate it 8/10 or better then Bioware is just going to look at it and say "solid B we done good".

[SalsaDMA]

Capt Shanderson2 wrote...

kbct wrote...

Capt Shanderson2 wrote...

I have hope that Bioware is going to fix the ending. I was bent out of shape at first but after reading about the indoctrination theory and seeing all of the evidence I am confident that Bioware either planned it from the start or they will use it as a basis.

I can understand that. Maybe it will happen like you say. However, I'm no sure if it was a good business tactic to withhold information about a new planned ending while your customers burn down the internet. The negative reviews and bad word of mouth is doing a lot of damage while BioWare keeps quiet. Even Casey Hudson's statement yesterday didn't mention anything concrete:

"But we also recognize that some of our most passionate fans needed more closure, more answers, and more time to say goodbye to their stories—and these comments are equally valid. Player feedback such as this has always been an essential ingredient in the development of the series." -Hudson (3/16/12)

I'd admire them if they planned all of this from the start. Giving a game a purposely terrible ending so you can come in later and say " Gotcha! You guys thought that was the end didn't you? Did you honestly think we'd make an ending that terrible and not have something planned? Here's the real ending guys, prepare to have your minds blown!" It would be pretty radical and I'd respect them for having the balls to try something like this. Of coarse that's assuming they did indeed plan it. I honestly don't know how they could have not planned it though. There are too many clues throughout the game and there is just no way the writers could have been that dumb.

Problem with your suggstion: Not every game is patch-able (or can get DLC installed).

Some people actually buy products to be used out of the box, without requiring, or wanting, to be forced to connect to the net in order to get the 'real' product. Especially if this isn't delivered as promised at the point of purchase but rather at a later date at the discretion of the seller.

Think of the following: You enter a burgerjoints drive-trhough and buy a meal. You don't get fries with you, but you don't find out untill after you get home. You get annoyed and tell yourself you're not gonna bother with that place again the next time. A week later, after the place did the same to all their customers, a notice on their website states that if you bring your receipt to the burgerjoint, you'll get your fries for the complete meal, and that it was planned to give them to you like this all along...

Not gonna fly much, eh?

[wymm666]

thunderhawk862002 wrote...

There are also people who go on Amazon and metacritic and give 100% ratings with such great analysis as BEST GAME EVAR. I don't hear you guys whining about them.

this

[Gatt9]

Bantz wrote...

Here's my issue, in Casey's "statement" he mentions how they are getting great reviews so the game must be good right? I've said this everytime someone mentions rating the game from a fan standpoint. While I believe the game prior to the endings was damn near perfect, if we rate it 8/10 or better then Bioware is just going to look at it and say "solid B we done good".

The thing is though,  no one knows better than the developers that the reviews are largely meaningless.  We have alot of indications that the gaming press reviews advertisers,  Casey knows for a fact that his game hasn't actually received a review yet. 

Casey also knows that reviews don't matter,  50 million dollars doesn't appear in EA's bank account if the game averages a 90.  He knows sales are all that matters.

Bioware's in alot of trouble now.  DA2 bombed,  TOR is severely underperforming and doesn't appear liked,  ME3 has upset alot of people as Metacritic shows.

Further,  many clear-cut statements they made about ME3 are not true.  "SP can achieve the optimal ending easily!",  "Multiplayer isn't required!",  "The DLC was made after the game was finished and wasn't cut out of the main game!".

Bioware's spent all of their good will.  People will not preorder their games en masse any longer,  they will wait for user reviews.  Bioware absolutely must make their next game a real 9.5/10,  a real gaming classic,  or they're not going to sell.  When people wait for reviews,  the probability that they're going to buy anything but that "Once in a decade" game drop significantly.

Given what I've heard about DA3,  many of the problems ME3 has will be present,  and the development team *really* ticked off fans post-DA2,  Bioware is in dire straights.

Plus,  I strongly suspect there's more going on here.  I don't think Bioware intentionally lied about War Assets,  I think we are just seeing the tip of a really large iceburg.

[SalsaDMA]

Gatt9 wrote...

Bantz wrote...

Here's my issue, in Casey's "statement" he mentions how they are getting great reviews so the game must be good right? I've said this everytime someone mentions rating the game from a fan standpoint. While I believe the game prior to the endings was damn near perfect, if we rate it 8/10 or better then Bioware is just going to look at it and say "solid B we done good".

The thing is though,  no one knows better than the developers that the reviews are largely meaningless.  We have alot of indications that the gaming press reviews advertisers,  Casey knows for a fact that his game hasn't actually received a review yet. 

Casey also knows that reviews don't matter,  50 million dollars doesn't appear in EA's bank account if the game averages a 90.  He knows sales are all that matters.

Bioware's in alot of trouble now.  DA2 bombed,  TOR is severely underperforming and doesn't appear liked,  ME3 has upset alot of people as Metacritic shows.

Further,  many clear-cut statements they made about ME3 are not true.  "SP can achieve the optimal ending easily!",  "Multiplayer isn't required!",  "The DLC was made after the game was finished and wasn't cut out of the main game!".

Bioware's spent all of their good will.  People will not preorder their games en masse any longer,  they will wait for user reviews.  Bioware absolutely must make their next game a real 9.5/10,  a real gaming classic,  or they're not going to sell.  When people wait for reviews,  the probability that they're going to buy anything but that "Once in a decade" game drop significantly.

Given what I've heard about DA3,  many of the problems ME3 has will be present,  and the development team *really* ticked off fans post-DA2,  Bioware is in dire straights.

Plus,  I strongly suspect there's more going on here.  I don't think Bioware intentionally lied about War Assets,  I think we are just seeing the tip of a really large iceburg.

I think you are giving reviews less credit than they are due.

It's not long ago Obsidian missed a bonus because a game they made got an 84% on the metacritic instead of 85%.

source: http://www.gamepolit...etacritic-score

[Capt Shanderson2]

SalsaDMA wrote...

Capt Shanderson2 wrote...

kbct wrote...

Capt Shanderson2 wrote...

I have hope that Bioware is going to fix the ending. I was bent out of shape at first but after reading about the indoctrination theory and seeing all of the evidence I am confident that Bioware either planned it from the start or they will use it as a basis.

I can understand that. Maybe it will happen like you say. However, I'm no sure if it was a good business tactic to withhold information about a new planned ending while your customers burn down the internet. The negative reviews and bad word of mouth is doing a lot of damage while BioWare keeps quiet. Even Casey Hudson's statement yesterday didn't mention anything concrete:

"But we also recognize that some of our most passionate fans needed more closure, more answers, and more time to say goodbye to their stories—and these comments are equally valid. Player feedback such as this has always been an essential ingredient in the development of the series." -Hudson (3/16/12)

I'd admire them if they planned all of this from the start. Giving a game a purposely terrible ending so you can come in later and say " Gotcha! You guys thought that was the end didn't you? Did you honestly think we'd make an ending that terrible and not have something planned? Here's the real ending guys, prepare to have your minds blown!" It would be pretty radical and I'd respect them for having the balls to try something like this. Of coarse that's assuming they did indeed plan it. I honestly don't know how they could have not planned it though. There are too many clues throughout the game and there is just no way the writers could have been that dumb.

Problem with your suggstion: Not every game is patch-able (or can get DLC installed).

Some people actually buy products to be used out of the box, without requiring, or wanting, to be forced to connect to the net in order to get the 'real' product. Especially if this isn't delivered as promised at the point of purchase but rather at a later date at the discretion of the seller.

Think of the following: You enter a burgerjoints drive-trhough and buy a meal. You don't get fries with you, but you don't find out untill after you get home. You get annoyed and tell yourself you're not gonna bother with that place again the next time. A week later, after the place did the same to all their customers, a notice on their website states that if you bring your receipt to the burgerjoint, you'll get your fries for the complete meal, and that it was planned to give them to you like this all along...

Not gonna fly much, eh?

The game is full though, it has an ending. The ending is awful but it's still there. They're most likely going to give us ending dlc but it's not like doesn't have an ending at all.

[Ronin1325]

SalsaDMA wrote...

Ronin1325 wrote...

SalsaDMA wrote...

The issues I asume riling up people is the blatant disregard for the thinking consumer.

There were/are statements that specifically said/says that

a) the endings would be varied and take your choices into account while being a closure.
multiplayer would not be required to get the best ending.

Both of these statements seems blatantly false as people have started getting their hands dirty on the actual game.

Add
Origin-required, day 1 DLC, a targeted advert at the end of the game to
entice people to buy more DLC in the future and a general 'we want more
money for less product' atmosphere to some of the choices Bioware are
doing lately and you end up with a lot of people that just get pissed
off at being treated like dumb cashcows.

That's my asumption for the backlash, anyway.

Don't respect the consumer, and the consumer will start loosing respect for you too.

Gosh, more illogical entitled whining SalsaDMA? Haven't we heard enough of that? [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/wink.png[/smilie] 

And
still nobody seems to want to deal with Casey Hudson's public
statements about what the ending of ME3 would be. If we are all so
off-base then it should be a relatively simple matter to go through the
article & show how every thing he said was indeed shown in what we
got.

Save your petty insults for the mirror, mate.

Are you arguing that MP isn't required for getting the best ending in SP?
Are you arguing that there aren't day 1-DLC?
That Origin isn't required for ME3 PC version?
That after the end Bioware hits the player with a "Buy more DLC" advert?
Or that the endings are truly varied and adds closure?

Cause if you aren't (and to be honest, nothing in your post touches on those as far as I can see), your reply just comes of as a random insult against a random person.

My sincere aplogies, SalsaDMA, I *Completely* misread your post. Too many hours of reading mushified my brain. I thought you were supporting endings as given. Please forgive my carelessness.

[Ronin1325]

Elhanan wrote...

Ronin1325 wrote...

So Elhanan, when we address the article I posted specifically, you say "Eh, maybe some of it was implemented, and this is from January, so that makes it less legitimate." (Obviously I'm paraphrasing). Then when I mentioned that the game was finished *months* beforehand, you ignore it. As well as ignoring my mention of Mac Walters making the same claims the day after it was released. There are many more quotes from the makers of the game that state similar things- That our choices would matter more than ever before, that we would have 'wildly divergent' endings & that we would have closure. All of those claims are demonstrably false.

Then you say that a customer who is complaining that a product they bought not working as advertised is "spoiled, immature, disgraceful, etc..." I hope that the next time you buy a house/car/washing machine or whatever, & it does not have features you were sold on & formed a major part of why you bought it, that you keep what you said in mind & don't complain.

I say my sympathies lie elsewhere due to the methods chosen despite the feelings or motives behind them.

As mentioned, I found the charity ploy amusing, and rather refreshing in this day and age of entitlements, so I am not opposed to people asking for a change. And I am not opposed to constructive criticism.

But if I purchased a car, and then tried to extort service as my response via bad press, I would also be seen in a rather poor light, as well as wrong considering I did not like the bumper sticker.

So you see a customer complaining about being sold a false bill of goods as extortion. Got it.

[Elhanan]

Ronin1325 wrote...
So you see a customer complaining about being sold a false bill of goods as extortion. Got it.

If tanking their rep was my initial response; yep!

[Trentgamer]

If someone doesn't like a product they paid for, they are ENTITLED to complain about it. They paid to have that right. Complaining about a product you don't like is the only form of recourse you have as a consumer when 'getting your money back' isn't really an option. It's funny how the people calling the disgruntled consumers 'whiners' and 'spoiled' think it's us who are ruining the game and Bioware. Nope, Bioware did that themselves, thus all the chaos right now. If you want to blame anyone for all the poeple complaining, blame the source, not the complainers. True, even if a game is 'perfect' there will always be someone complaining about something, but that is not the case in this respect. The complaints here are valid and if the consumer feels ripped off, it's their right to let Bioware know that's how they feel. Bioware has been slowly slipping ever since EA got their dirty corporate fingers around their neck. It's not like EA has never ruined other games and other studios..they have a history of it.

[Elhanan]

Trentgamer wrote...

If someone doesn't like a product they paid for, they are ENTITLED to complain about it. They paid to have that right. Complaining about a product you don't like is the only form of recourse you have as a consumer when 'getting your money back' isn't really an option. It's funny how the people calling the disgruntled consumers 'whiners' and 'spoiled' think it's us who are ruining the game and Bioware. Nope, Bioware did that themselves, thus all the chaos right now. If you want to blame anyone for all the poeple complaining, blame the source, not the complainers. True, even if a game is 'perfect' there will always be someone complaining about something, but that is not the case in this respect. The complaints here are valid and if the consumer feels ripped off, it's their right to let Bioware know that's how they feel. Bioware has been slowly slipping ever since EA got their dirty corporate fingers around their neck. It's not like EA has never ruined other games and other studios..they have a history of it.

One has the right to complain; not the right to try and coerce changes in the end game espececially as their intial response.

One also has the right to remain silent; more would do well to use it.

[gabewpashere]

*Goes to metacritic.
Looks at Mass Effect 3 reviews.
Loses hope in humanity over stupid reviewers.*
You put 0 out of 10 because of the ending? Did you actually forget that rest of the game that easily? Yes I was mad too (I wait the "U mad bro?" replies) when i watched the endings... but i remember to take into account a great game. I threw my review as a 9 out of 10 without thinking about endings, 8.5 out of 10 with endings.

[kbct]

gabewpashere wrote...

*Goes to metacritic.
Looks at Mass Effect 3 reviews.
Loses hope in humanity over stupid reviewers.*
You put 0 out of 10 because of the ending? Did you actually forget that rest of the game that easily? Yes I was mad too (I wait the "U mad bro?" replies) when i watched the endings... but i remember to take into account a great game. I threw my review as a 9 out of 10 without thinking about endings, 8.5 out of 10 with endings.

It's apparent you don't put much weight on the ending. Lots of people think the end of story is very important. Thus, lower scores.

[SalsaDMA]

Ronin1325 wrote...

SalsaDMA wrote...

Ronin1325 wrote...

SalsaDMA wrote...

The issues I asume riling up people is the blatant disregard for the thinking consumer.

There were/are statements that specifically said/says that

a) the endings would be varied and take your choices into account while being a closure.
multiplayer would not be required to get the best ending.

Both of these statements seems blatantly false as people have started getting their hands dirty on the actual game.

Add
Origin-required, day 1 DLC, a targeted advert at the end of the game to
entice people to buy more DLC in the future and a general 'we want more
money for less product' atmosphere to some of the choices Bioware are
doing lately and you end up with a lot of people that just get pissed
off at being treated like dumb cashcows.

That's my asumption for the backlash, anyway.

Don't respect the consumer, and the consumer will start loosing respect for you too.

Gosh, more illogical entitled whining SalsaDMA? Haven't we heard enough of that? [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/wink.png[/smilie] 

And
still nobody seems to want to deal with Casey Hudson's public
statements about what the ending of ME3 would be. If we are all so
off-base then it should be a relatively simple matter to go through the
article & show how every thing he said was indeed shown in what we
got.

Save your petty insults for the mirror, mate.

Are you arguing that MP isn't required for getting the best ending in SP?
Are you arguing that there aren't day 1-DLC?
That Origin isn't required for ME3 PC version?
That after the end Bioware hits the player with a "Buy more DLC" advert?
Or that the endings are truly varied and adds closure?

Cause if you aren't (and to be honest, nothing in your post touches on those as far as I can see), your reply just comes of as a random insult against a random person.

My sincere aplogies, SalsaDMA, I *Completely* misread your post. Too many hours of reading mushified my brain. I thought you were supporting endings as given. Please forgive my carelessness.

np. Brown stuff happens from time to time;)

[kbct]

SalsaDMA wrote...

Ronin1325 wrote...

My sincere aplogies, SalsaDMA, I *Completely* misread your post. Too many hours of reading mushified my brain. I thought you were supporting endings as given. Please forgive my carelessness.

np. Brown stuff happens from time to time;)

I wish more people here were like you two.

[dbal]

user score is low....of course..

http://www.metacriti...c/mass-effect-3

the critics agree, its one hell of a game.

[kbct]

dbal wrote...

user score is low....of course..

http://www.metacriti...c/mass-effect-3

the critics agree, its one hell of a game.

ME3 will sell well if customers listen to the professional reviews, and not the user reviews or word of mouth.

[Ronin1325]

Elhanan wrote...

Trentgamer wrote...

If someone doesn't like a product they paid for, they are ENTITLED to complain about it. They paid to have that right. Complaining about a product you don't like is the only form of recourse you have as a consumer when 'getting your money back' isn't really an option. It's funny how the people calling the disgruntled consumers 'whiners' and 'spoiled' think it's us who are ruining the game and Bioware. Nope, Bioware did that themselves, thus all the chaos right now. If you want to blame anyone for all the poeple complaining, blame the source, not the complainers. True, even if a game is 'perfect' there will always be someone complaining about something, but that is not the case in this respect. The complaints here are valid and if the consumer feels ripped off, it's their right to let Bioware know that's how they feel. Bioware has been slowly slipping ever since EA got their dirty corporate fingers around their neck. It's not like EA has never ruined other games and other studios..they have a history of it.

One has the right to complain; not the right to try and coerce changes in the end game espececially as their intial response.

One also has the right to remain silent; more would do well to use it.

But that is exactly where the vast majority of users were lied to about the product. Hence, that is where they are focusing. How is this not logical? 

[Ronin1325]

kbct wrote...

SalsaDMA wrote...

Ronin1325 wrote...

My sincere aplogies, SalsaDMA, I *Completely* misread your post. Too many hours of reading mushified my brain. I thought you were supporting endings as given. Please forgive my carelessness.

np. Brown stuff happens from time to time;)

I wish more people here were like you two.

Thanks. I just wish I hadn't made the stupid oversight in the first place. I'd send SalsaDMA a cookie if I could. 

Since I started wantering the interwebs back in '96 I've always tried to follow the rule of treating all my conversations online as if they were face-to-face. There's enough crap in the real world without bringing it all online.

Oh, and to comment on the thread topic Amazon's reviews for all versions are growing significantly & still holding at 2 stars for the 360, 2 starts for the PC (disc and download) & 3 stars for the PS/3. I haven't read them all, but the majority are at least moderately well written. And as has been mentioned here, most are giving it low ratings because of the ending.

Ah... the ending. I don't know if it could be done in the 'general' forum, but it seems to me that a major reason for the argument is the importance of endings. Some feel they are critical, others not so much. Could ME3's ending & the importance of endings be discussed without spoilers? 

Modifié par Ronin1325, 18 mars 2012 - 12:28 .

[Doppelgaenger]

Okay. I think I found the best description of the game so far in one of those reviews: "An utterly brilliant disaster."

Yes that sure fits.