504 réponses à ce sujet

[gangly369]

Novate wrote...

the more we tell the developers and everyone else who is listening that regardless of what anyone does as long as you have a brand, you can put anything out there and people will buy it.

Consumers are losing the battle for better games, quality games.
When a product didn't deliver their promise to their consumers its our right as an consumer to demand change. Why is it our right? Because its our duty to other gamers and the future of gaming that we make it known to everyone that if you give products incomplete we will not be afraid to spread the word. We as consumers will buy from your competitors because its not OUR privilege to play their creations, its their privilege for their product to be bought by us and to be played by US the consumers.

We need to let every developer out there know that Incomplete products will not pass, we are the ones that put food on your tables. We don't demand you to cater to our needs, we just want an complete product. Give us what you promised, if you promised. Tell the consumers that buying your products is better than buying it from your competitors, give us the reasons.

We must stop this growth of Less and Less content for products that is growing more and more expensive.

I agree with this.... to an extent.

I believe that yes, we as consumers do have a right to complain if we feel the quality of the product we recieve is subpar. We have a right to better games, and letting something slide isn't acceptable. We don't want anything like the repetition we see in COD games (just using it as an example, not bashing people who play the game, but it is pretty much the same game every year)

What I don't agree with, is the demanding of free dlc for an alternate ending. Not only do I see such a thing not being free (ever), but demanding a revision to an ending to a trilogy that has just finished? No. When I read a series, and the last book happens to end in a way I don't like, I admittedly get a little mad. My favourite character didn't show up, or there was no point to doing this and that before hand so why did he waste my time with that, etc. But it's out there. This is how the author wished it to end. S/he gave me the privilege of experiencing a brand new world, something fun and exciting, and I'll remember how great it was going up to the end. Sure it wasn't what I wanted, and I'll let the author know that. I'll write something to them about how this or that should've happened, and how I think they can do better.

Now I've seen the responses people have to posts like mine. "But we were promised this!" "They're just in it for a quick buck, they don't care!" Listen, the writing team are probably extremely dissapointed with themselves and with how the fans reacted. Nobody, absolutely NOBODY, who writes as a profession goes out of their way to write a bad ending just to ****** some people off, no matter how badly some people seem to think that they are being directly targeted. So please, stop the self pitying bs and grow up: it's just a story.

If you really want to help out bioware (and you should if your a fan and like the genre of games they make, which you should be if your on this site) then come on the forms, start a blog, write something that critiques what you think could be improved upon. Give examples of how it could be better, provide ideas, and then share it with others. Bioware is very good at listening and interacting with their fans (or at least better than some other ones I can think of *coughlionheadcough*), and they'll let you know if they agree or not, or will take note of it if lots of people are agreeing with you.


Or, you know, the majority of you will just skim over this and resume your whining about wanting more and more. /sigh first world problems, eh? 

[Jestina]

Two is being kind of generous.

[Lasien]

kbct wrote...

BuffPhantoms wrote...

BSN and 4chan troll bombin user review sites.

I'll trust the 93% and 94% critic reviews that people actually use to buy games.

So? You may not consider Amazon user reviews to be valuable, but casual gamers do. Casual gamers are the people that will be buying the game over the next months.

A low score on Amazon is not good.

Actually, I consider myself to be a casual gamer, and I don't just go with anyone's score. I try to read a segement of the reviews to see why they rated things the way they did. If there is a review saying "GAME SUCKS!" or "5 years building up to dissapointment" or "BEST GAME EVER", or even "Great Game!", I ignore them. I prefer to know why the reviewer reviewed it the way they did, and a blurb is not detailed enough for me to bother with.

[MelfinaofOutlawStar]

miracleofsound wrote...

Paragon actions are more likely to get gamers what they want here.

The same ending?

[MelfinaofOutlawStar]

Ailith430 wrote...

Anonymass wrote...

This is only going to harm the people working at BioWare.

Take a look at what happened to Obsidian:

http://www.vg247.com...lout-new-vegas/

Well then maybe they should have made a better game?

No, the game was fine and an 84 is still a great score.

Maybe they shouldn't have signed such an idiotic contract.

[TheSnappyDude]

ODST 3 wrote...

 Yep, and I'm one of those reviews. It killed me to do it because I loved 99% of this great game. But the endings killed the whole experience for me. It wasn't what we were promised and is not acceptable.

same

[Lasien]

gangly369 wrote...

Novate wrote...

the more we tell the developers and everyone else who is listening that regardless of what anyone does as long as you have a brand, you can put anything out there and people will buy it.

Consumers are losing the battle for better games, quality games.
When a product didn't deliver their promise to their consumers its our right as an consumer to demand change. Why is it our right? Because its our duty to other gamers and the future of gaming that we make it known to everyone that if you give products incomplete we will not be afraid to spread the word. We as consumers will buy from your competitors because its not OUR privilege to play their creations, its their privilege for their product to be bought by us and to be played by US the consumers.

We need to let every developer out there know that Incomplete products will not pass, we are the ones that put food on your tables. We don't demand you to cater to our needs, we just want an complete product. Give us what you promised, if you promised. Tell the consumers that buying your products is better than buying it from your competitors, give us the reasons.

We must stop this growth of Less and Less content for products that is growing more and more expensive.

I agree with this.... to an extent.

I believe that yes, we as consumers do have a right to complain if we feel the quality of the product we recieve is subpar. We have a right to better games, and letting something slide isn't acceptable. We don't want anything like the repetition we see in COD games (just using it as an example, not bashing people who play the game, but it is pretty much the same game every year)

What I don't agree with, is the demanding of free dlc for an alternate ending. Not only do I see such a thing not being free (ever), but demanding a revision to an ending to a trilogy that has just finished? No. When I read a series, and the last book happens to end in a way I don't like, I admittedly get a little mad. My favourite character didn't show up, or there was no point to doing this and that before hand so why did he waste my time with that, etc. But it's out there. This is how the author wished it to end. S/he gave me the privilege of experiencing a brand new world, something fun and exciting, and I'll remember how great it was going up to the end. Sure it wasn't what I wanted, and I'll let the author know that. I'll write something to them about how this or that should've happened, and how I think they can do better.

Now I've seen the responses people have to posts like mine. "But we were promised this!" "They're just in it for a quick buck, they don't care!" Listen, the writing team are probably extremely dissapointed with themselves and with how the fans reacted. Nobody, absolutely NOBODY, who writes as a profession goes out of their way to write a bad ending just to ****** some people off, no matter how badly some people seem to think that they are being directly targeted. So please, stop the self pitying bs and grow up: it's just a story.

If you really want to help out bioware (and you should if your a fan and like the genre of games they make, which you should be if your on this site) then come on the forms, start a blog, write something that critiques what you think could be improved upon. Give examples of how it could be better, provide ideas, and then share it with others. Bioware is very good at listening and interacting with their fans (or at least better than some other ones I can think of *coughlionheadcough*), and they'll let you know if they agree or not, or will take note of it if lots of people are agreeing with you.


Or, you know, the majority of you will just skim over this and resume your whining about wanting more and more. /sigh first world problems, eh? 

Read it, Agree, and thank you very much for saying what I'm thinking!

Also, If everyone thinks that this ending isn't the real ending, and a continuation is coming, could you at least wait for all releases (and about a week for everyone to get to the end) before the ****storm begins?

[KBomb]

gangly369 wrote...

I agree with this.... to an extent.

I believe that yes, we as consumers do have a right to complain if we feel the quality of the product we recieve is subpar. We have a right to better games, and letting something slide isn't acceptable. We don't want anything like the repetition we see in COD games (just using it as an example, not bashing people who play the game, but it is pretty much the same game every year)

What I don't agree with, is the demanding of free dlc for an alternate ending. Not only do I see such a thing not being free (ever), but demanding a revision to an ending to a trilogy that has just finished? No. When I read a series, and the last book happens to end in a way I don't like, I admittedly get a little mad. My favourite character didn't show up, or there was no point to doing this and that before hand so why did he waste my time with that, etc. But it's out there. This is how the author wished it to end. S/he gave me the privilege of experiencing a brand new world, something fun and exciting, and I'll remember how great it was going up to the end. Sure it wasn't what I wanted, and I'll let the author know that. I'll write something to them about how this or that should've happened, and how I think they can do better.

Now I've seen the responses people have to posts like mine. "But we were promised this!" "They're just in it for a quick buck, they don't care!" Listen, the writing team are probably extremely dissapointed with themselves and with how the fans reacted. Nobody, absolutely NOBODY, who writes as a profession goes out of their way to write a bad ending just to ****** some people off, no matter how badly some people seem to think that they are being directly targeted. So please, stop the self pitying bs and grow up: it's just a story.

If you really want to help out bioware (and you should if your a fan and like the genre of games they make, which you should be if your on this site) then come on the forms, start a blog, write something that critiques what you think could be improved upon. Give examples of how it could be better, provide ideas, and then share it with others. Bioware is very good at listening and interacting with their fans (or at least better than some other ones I can think of *coughlionheadcough*), and they'll let you know if they agree or not, or will take note of it if lots of people are agreeing with you.


Or, you know, the majority of you will just skim over this and resume your whining about wanting more and more. /sigh first world problems, eh? 

 
Honestly, what is with all the #firstworldproblems nonsense? If we were on an march of Dimes website complaining about a video game, I could understand. This is a forum about video games. Honestly, this is the most ridiculous thing.


Also, and I am not directing this to any writer or company in particular—but I agree that most professional writers wouldn't go out of their way to write poorly on purpose, that does not mean that consumers won't view the writing as poorly done. If it's poorly written, it's poorly written and it doesn't matter if they're professional or not.

[kbct]

Lasien wrote...

Actually, I consider myself to be a casual gamer, and I don't just go with anyone's score. I try to read a segement of the reviews to see why they rated things the way they did. If there is a review saying "GAME SUCKS!" or "5 years building up to dissapointment" or "BEST GAME EVER", or even "Great Game!", I ignore them. I prefer to know why the reviewer reviewed it the way they did, and a blurb is not detailed enough for me to bother with.

Agreed, you have to look at individual reviews to separate the wheat from the chaff. However, the score is the starting point - a quick measure when comparing ME3 against other games. If ME3 has two stars and another game has 4.5 stars, you might look at the other game first.

If you look at the "most helpful" review for ME3, it is very detailed long review that rates ME3 2 out of 5 stars. That's not good.

[gangly369]

KBomb wrote...

gangly369 wrote...

I agree with this.... to an extent.

I believe that yes, we as consumers do have a right to complain if we feel the quality of the product we recieve is subpar. We have a right to better games, and letting something slide isn't acceptable. We don't want anything like the repetition we see in COD games (just using it as an example, not bashing people who play the game, but it is pretty much the same game every year)

What I don't agree with, is the demanding of free dlc for an alternate ending. Not only do I see such a thing not being free (ever), but demanding a revision to an ending to a trilogy that has just finished? No. When I read a series, and the last book happens to end in a way I don't like, I admittedly get a little mad. My favourite character didn't show up, or there was no point to doing this and that before hand so why did he waste my time with that, etc. But it's out there. This is how the author wished it to end. S/he gave me the privilege of experiencing a brand new world, something fun and exciting, and I'll remember how great it was going up to the end. Sure it wasn't what I wanted, and I'll let the author know that. I'll write something to them about how this or that should've happened, and how I think they can do better.

Now I've seen the responses people have to posts like mine. "But we were promised this!" "They're just in it for a quick buck, they don't care!" Listen, the writing team are probably extremely dissapointed with themselves and with how the fans reacted. Nobody, absolutely NOBODY, who writes as a profession goes out of their way to write a bad ending just to ****** some people off, no matter how badly some people seem to think that they are being directly targeted. So please, stop the self pitying bs and grow up: it's just a story.

If you really want to help out bioware (and you should if your a fan and like the genre of games they make, which you should be if your on this site) then come on the forms, start a blog, write something that critiques what you think could be improved upon. Give examples of how it could be better, provide ideas, and then share it with others. Bioware is very good at listening and interacting with their fans (or at least better than some other ones I can think of *coughlionheadcough*), and they'll let you know if they agree or not, or will take note of it if lots of people are agreeing with you.


Or, you know, the majority of you will just skim over this and resume your whining about wanting more and more. /sigh first world problems, eh? 

 
Honestly, what is with all the #firstworldproblems nonsense? If we were on an march of Dimes website complaining about a video game, I could understand. This is a forum about video games. Honestly, this is the most ridiculous thing.


Also, and I am not directing this to any writer or company in particular—but I agree that most professional writers wouldn't go out of their way to write poorly on purpose, that does not mean that consumers won't view the writing as poorly done. If it's poorly written, it's poorly written and it doesn't matter if they're professional or not.

Um I was just using the 'first world' thing as a joke. As in video games probably aren't the most important thing in the world to be arguing over about. It wasn't meant to be taken literally. I'm sorry for somehow offending you 

And in reference to your spiel about writing (not sure if it's directed to me or not about what I said about authors), I never said people couldn't be mad about a poorly written ending. Thats perfectly fine. Bashing an entire game/series over it though? Demanding a new ending (assuming that they hadn't already planned a continuation of it) for free? I find that a bit ridiculous. Not only will there be no way in hell its free, people will be upset over the ending no matter what they put out. Thats just how it goes with people: it's impossible to please 100% of them 100% of the time. And you know that old saying 'It's about the journey, not the destination'? Imo, doesnt matter how bad an ending is, I'll still fondly remember what happened up to it. Thats not saying im giving the writers a free pass, because I'm not, I just think it's a silly waste of time to get so upset and say that 'everything is ruined!' because of a bad ending. It's one aspect of a game, that's all. I think it's more productive to tell Bioware how they can do better as opposed to just telling them 'You suck. Give me ma money back ****!'


edited for spelling

Modifié par gangly369, 16 mars 2012 - 02:59 .

[Kingoscar2]

Bunch of crying little sappy idiots who cried during the game and found out the ending was sad to, so they sat and cried and raged about it.

[Ronin1325]

gangly369 wrote...

KBomb wrote...

gangly369 wrote...

I agree with this.... to an extent.

I believe that yes, we as consumers do have a right to complain if we feel the quality of the product we recieve is subpar. We have a right to better games, and letting something slide isn't acceptable. We don't want anything like the repetition we see in COD games (just using it as an example, not bashing people who play the game, but it is pretty much the same game every year)

What I don't agree with, is the demanding of free dlc for an alternate ending. Not only do I see such a thing not being free (ever), but demanding a revision to an ending to a trilogy that has just finished? No. When I read a series, and the last book happens to end in a way I don't like, I admittedly get a little mad. My favourite character didn't show up, or there was no point to doing this and that before hand so why did he waste my time with that, etc. But it's out there. This is how the author wished it to end. S/he gave me the privilege of experiencing a brand new world, something fun and exciting, and I'll remember how great it was going up to the end. Sure it wasn't what I wanted, and I'll let the author know that. I'll write something to them about how this or that should've happened, and how I think they can do better.

Now I've seen the responses people have to posts like mine. "But we were promised this!" "They're just in it for a quick buck, they don't care!" Listen, the writing team are probably extremely dissapointed with themselves and with how the fans reacted. Nobody, absolutely NOBODY, who writes as a profession goes out of their way to write a bad ending just to ****** some people off, no matter how badly some people seem to think that they are being directly targeted. So please, stop the self pitying bs and grow up: it's just a story.

If you really want to help out bioware (and you should if your a fan and like the genre of games they make, which you should be if your on this site) then come on the forms, start a blog, write something that critiques what you think could be improved upon. Give examples of how it could be better, provide ideas, and then share it with others. Bioware is very good at listening and interacting with their fans (or at least better than some other ones I can think of *coughlionheadcough*), and they'll let you know if they agree or not, or will take note of it if lots of people are agreeing with you.


Or, you know, the majority of you will just skim over this and resume your whining about wanting more and more. /sigh first world problems, eh? 

 
Honestly, what is with all the #firstworldproblems nonsense? If we were on an march of Dimes website complaining about a video game, I could understand. This is a forum about video games. Honestly, this is the most ridiculous thing.


Also, and I am not directing this to any writer or company in particular—but I agree that most professional writers wouldn't go out of their way to write poorly on purpose, that does not mean that consumers won't view the writing as poorly done. If it's poorly written, it's poorly written and it doesn't matter if they're professional or not.

Um I was just using the 'first world' thing as a joke. As in video games probably aren't the most important thing in the world to be arguing over about. It wasn't meant to be taken literally. I'm sorry for somehow offending you 

And in reference to your spiel about writing (not sure if it's directed to me or not about what I said about authors), I never said people couldn't be mad about a poorly written ending. Thats perfectly fine. Bashing an entire game/series over it though? Demanding a new ending (assuming that they hadn't already planned a continuation of it) for free? I find that a bit ridiculous. Not only will there be no way in hell its free, people will be upset over the ending no matter what they put out. Thats just how it goes with people: it's impossible to please 100% of them 100% of the time. And you know that old saying 'It's about the journey, not the destination'? Imo, doesnt matter how bad an ending is, I'll still fondly remember what happened up to it. Thats not saying im giving the writers a free pass, because I'm not, I just think it's a silly waste of time to get so upset and say that 'everything is ruined!' because of a bad ending. It's one aspect of a game, that's all. I think it's more productive to tell Bioware how they can do better as opposed to just telling them 'You suck. Give me ma money back ****!'


edited for spelling

Here's a 'little' interview published back in January-  http://www.oxm.co.uk...sophisticated/  Funny, it ended up being exactly what he said it *wouldn't* be...

[BARRAGE 74]

There were numerous glitches in game that I overlooked because I was so enthralled with the story. There wasn't much to explore in any of the levels. I didn't mind that because I was on a mission to save the galaxy. That's how deep I was into the story. ME is one of the those very few games where you can say the story is the game (just chew on that for lil bit if you need to). That said the ending just soured the whole experience so fans are rightly are upset. And I'm getting tired of the whole artistic integrity arguement like that's supposed to make Bioware unassailble. Wrong Wrong Wrong! If an artist submits a piece of work that to their long time fans seems so out of left field said artist can expect lean days ahead. In the game buisness where there's so much competition between multiple titles, used game sales, and rentals it's not a good idea to fracture your loyal fanbase. Especially considering just about every title released has to have HUGE sales numbers to be considered successful by its publisher. We all know what EA does to studios that underperform.

[dkear1]

Kingoscar2 wrote...

Bunch of crying little sappy idiots who cried during the game and found out the ending was sad to, so they sat and cried and raged about it.

Ok, now please get up off the floor and stop your little temper tantrum, it is quite silly.

[KBomb]

gangly369 wrote...

Um I was just using the 'first world' thing as a joke. As in video games probably aren't the most important thing in the world to be arguing over about. It wasn't meant to be taken literally. I'm sorry for somehow offending you 

And in reference to your spiel about writing (not sure if it's directed to me or not about what I said about authors), I never said people couldn't be mad about a poorly written ending. Thats perfectly fine. Bashing an entire game/series over it though? Demanding a new ending (assuming that they hadn't already planned a continuation of it) for free? I find that a bit ridiculous. Not only will there be no way in hell its free, people will be upset over the ending no matter what they put out. Thats just how it goes with people: it's impossible to please 100% of them 100% of the time. And you know that old saying 'It's about the journey, not the destination'? Imo, doesnt matter how bad an ending is, I'll still fondly remember what happened up to it. Thats not saying im giving the writers a free pass, because I'm not, I just think it's a silly waste of time to get so upset and say that 'everything is ruined!' because of a bad ending. It's one aspect of a game, that's all. I think it's more productive to tell Bioware how they can do better as opposed to just telling them 'You suck. Give me ma money back ****!'


edited for spelling

 
Oh, you didn't offend me. I just think it's ridiculous to think because bad things are going on in the world, you can't complain about video games. Especially on a forum for a video game. If it were a joke, I guess I just didn't get it, or maybe because it's so overused. So sorry.


On the comment I made about writing: Of course I directed it at your comment. When I said I wasn't directing it specifically, I meant that I wasn't targeting Bioware or any other writer. I'm not even touching the free DLC or a continuation discussion. I have never commented on that. I don't see Bioware ever doing something like that, so it would be a moot point. What I will say is this: As consumers, it is up to us to place value on the products we purchase and it is our right to demand the best quality that is available. A video game cannot be held up to the same standards as a book, a painting or a movie. In those things, the author, painter or producer rarely allow their customers to take a seat on their ride. Their vision is based entirely on what they wish to put out.


Video games are different—and Mass Effect in particular, because they allow us to mold their decisions into an interactive piece of art. To say that it is entirely Bioware's or any other gaming company's vision and we should accept it for what it is, is telling the player that their input isn't needed or important. Bioware has amazing writing and the fact that people are so up in arms over it, is a testament to that. A lot of people feel the ending was lazy, poorly done and not indicative of the standard Bioware has had in the past. Is it entitlement? Not really. Should they be entitled to a high quality product that is indicative to their predecessor? Damn right. It isn't a horrible thing to be. As much as I adore some of the guys at Bioware—I'm looking at you, Stanley Woo—I am a customer. They provide a product for customers to purchase. They don't do it for free. They aren't doing us a favor. Mass Effect is a product.


And with any product, if you—the consumer—view it as substandard, you have the right to voice displeasure and you most certainly have the right to demand a fix. If you were promised certain features and were not given them. Demand away. It's how you protect yourselves as consumers and it's how you tell a multi-million dollar company, “Hey, this is my money! I'm watching you and you better hold yourself up to the same standard as I hold you to.” That doesn't mean Bioware or any other company has to listen or provide said fix. It just means their bread and butter are the fans. You treat them poorly, you'll lose them. That isn't whiny entitlement. That is business.


On a lasting note:
“It's not about the destination, but the journey.” May work if you're talking about the roads of life and experience. It's a good adage to give someone graduating high school or university. If I'm spending upwards of $100.00 for a product—the destination better be as awesome as the journey or game over.

Edit: Jesus, I am sorry for this being so long.

Modifié par KBomb, 16 mars 2012 - 03:30 .

[VolusvsReaper]

There is a reason why I don't listen to IGN reviews, Gamespot reviews, or fan reviews...they are all idiots.

[martiancake]

Aw man, I'm disappointed with and bewildered by the ending, but it doesn't deserve 1 & 2 star reviews. The game was fantastic all the way up to the last ten minutes. It's true those ten minutes carry heavier weight than all the minutes leading up to them, but two stars?

This is what's wrong with the star/number review system.

[Ronin1325]

KBomb wrote...

gangly369 wrote...

Um I was just using the 'first world' thing as a joke. As in video games probably aren't the most important thing in the world to be arguing over about. It wasn't meant to be taken literally. I'm sorry for somehow offending you 

And in reference to your spiel about writing (not sure if it's directed to me or not about what I said about authors), I never said people couldn't be mad about a poorly written ending. Thats perfectly fine. Bashing an entire game/series over it though? Demanding a new ending (assuming that they hadn't already planned a continuation of it) for free? I find that a bit ridiculous. Not only will there be no way in hell its free, people will be upset over the ending no matter what they put out. Thats just how it goes with people: it's impossible to please 100% of them 100% of the time. And you know that old saying 'It's about the journey, not the destination'? Imo, doesnt matter how bad an ending is, I'll still fondly remember what happened up to it. Thats not saying im giving the writers a free pass, because I'm not, I just think it's a silly waste of time to get so upset and say that 'everything is ruined!' because of a bad ending. It's one aspect of a game, that's all. I think it's more productive to tell Bioware how they can do better as opposed to just telling them 'You suck. Give me ma money back ****!'


edited for spelling

 
Oh, you didn't offend me. I just think it's ridiculous to think because bad things are going on in the world, you can't complain about video games. Especially on a forum for a video game. If it were a joke, I guess I just didn't get it, or maybe because it's so overused. So sorry.


On the comment I made about writing: Of course I directed it at your comment. When I said I wasn't directing it specifically, I meant that I wasn't targeting Bioware or any other writer. I'm not even touching the free DLC or a continuation discussion. I have never commented on that. I don't see Bioware ever doing something like that, so it would be a moot point. What I will say is this: As consumers, it is up to us to place value on the products we purchase and it is our right to demand the best quality that is available. A video game cannot be held up to the same standards as a book, a painting or a movie. In those things, the author, painter or producer rarely allow their customers to take a seat on their ride. Their vision is based entirely on what they wish to put out.


Video games are different—and Mass Effect in particular, because they allow us to mold their decisions into an interactive piece of art. To say that it is entirely Bioware's or any other gaming company's vision and we should accept it for what it is, is telling the player that their input isn't needed or important. Bioware has amazing writing and the fact that people are so up in arms over it, is a testament to that. A lot of people feel the ending was lazy, poorly done and not indicative of the standard Bioware has had in the past. Is it entitlement? Not really. Should they be entitled to a high quality product that is indicative to their predecessor? Damn right. It isn't a horrible thing to be. As much as I adore some of the guys at Bioware—I'm looking at you, Stanley Woo—I am a customer. They provide a product for customers to purchase. They don't do it for free. They aren't doing us a favor. Mass Effect is a product.


And with any product, if you—the consumer—view it as substandard, you have the right to voice displeasure and you most certainly have the right to demand a fix. If you were promised certain features and were not given them. Demand away. It's how you protect yourselves as consumers and it's how you tell a multi-million dollar company, “Hey, this is my money! I'm watching you and you better hold yourself up to the same standard as I hold you to.” That doesn't mean Bioware or any other company has to listen or provide said fix. It just means their bread and butter are the fans. You treat them poorly, you'll lose them. That isn't whiny entitlement. That is business.


On a lasting note:
“It's not about the destination, but the journey.” May work if you're talking about the roads of life and experience. It's a good adage to give someone graduating high school or university. If I'm spending upwards of $100.00 for a product—the destination better be as awesome as the journey or game over.

Edit: Jesus, I am sorry for this being so long.

It was accurate & well-said, KBomb. Don't worry about the length, good things take time.

[gangly369]

KBomb wrote...

gangly369 wrote...

Um I was just using the 'first world' thing as a joke. As in video games probably aren't the most important thing in the world to be arguing over about. It wasn't meant to be taken literally. I'm sorry for somehow offending you 

And in reference to your spiel about writing (not sure if it's directed to me or not about what I said about authors), I never said people couldn't be mad about a poorly written ending. Thats perfectly fine. Bashing an entire game/series over it though? Demanding a new ending (assuming that they hadn't already planned a continuation of it) for free? I find that a bit ridiculous. Not only will there be no way in hell its free, people will be upset over the ending no matter what they put out. Thats just how it goes with people: it's impossible to please 100% of them 100% of the time. And you know that old saying 'It's about the journey, not the destination'? Imo, doesnt matter how bad an ending is, I'll still fondly remember what happened up to it. Thats not saying im giving the writers a free pass, because I'm not, I just think it's a silly waste of time to get so upset and say that 'everything is ruined!' because of a bad ending. It's one aspect of a game, that's all. I think it's more productive to tell Bioware how they can do better as opposed to just telling them 'You suck. Give me ma money back ****!'


edited for spelling

 
Oh, you didn't offend me. I just think it's ridiculous to think because bad things are going on in the world, you can't complain about video games. Especially on a forum for a video game. If it were a joke, I guess I just didn't get it, or maybe because it's so overused. So sorry.


On the comment I made about writing: Of course I directed it at your comment. When I said I wasn't directing it specifically, I meant that I wasn't targeting Bioware or any other writer. I'm not even touching the free DLC or a continuation discussion. I have never commented on that. I don't see Bioware ever doing something like that, so it would be a moot point. What I will say is this: As consumers, it is up to us to place value on the products we purchase and it is our right to demand the best quality that is available. A video game cannot be held up to the same standards as a book, a painting or a movie. In those things, the author, painter or producer rarely allow their customers to take a seat on their ride. Their vision is based entirely on what they wish to put out.


Video games are different—and Mass Effect in particular, because they allow us to mold their decisions into an interactive piece of art. To say that it is entirely Bioware's or any other gaming company's vision and we should accept it for what it is, is telling the player that their input isn't needed or important. Bioware has amazing writing and the fact that people are so up in arms over it, is a testament to that. A lot of people feel the ending was lazy, poorly done and not indicative of the standard Bioware has had in the past. Is it entitlement? Not really. Should they be entitled to a high quality product that is indicative to their predecessor? Damn right. It isn't a horrible thing to be. As much as I adore some of the guys at Bioware—I'm looking at you, Stanley Woo—I am a customer. They provide a product for customers to purchase. They don't do it for free. They aren't doing us a favor. Mass Effect is a product.


And with any product, if you—the consumer—view it as substandard, you have the right to voice displeasure and you most certainly have the right to demand a fix. If you were promised certain features and were not given them. Demand away. It's how you protect yourselves as consumers and it's how you tell a multi-million dollar company, “Hey, this is my money! I'm watching you and you better hold yourself up to the same standard as I hold you to.” That doesn't mean Bioware or any other company has to listen or provide said fix. It just means their bread and butter are the fans. You treat them poorly, you'll lose them. That isn't whiny entitlement. That is business.


On a lasting note:
“It's not about the destination, but the journey.” May work if you're talking about the roads of life and experience. It's a good adage to give someone graduating high school or university. If I'm spending upwards of $100.00 for a product—the destination better be as awesome as the journey or game over.

Edit: Jesus, I am sorry for this being so long.

I never said people should accept it. What I'm saying is that many of the people's reaction to it is unwarranted , such as the 2 star ratings for only one aspect of a game. As I've said, I'm all for demanding the best that we can get from Bioware. I just disagree with how people are going about doing this, which is why I brought up the free dlc. Because like it or not, that is something that has been brought up many many times on these forums, and I don't see that as the proper way of going about this, I really don't. People can be mad and upset, but do it in a constructive manner. If this was a game for everyone (i.e people under 18 years old) then I could understand the reaction of people saying "this sucks" and all the drama queen nonsense. But it's not. This game is for adults, not kids, it's for a mature audience, so I would expect people to act like it. Will they? No, of course not, at least not everyone.

I can see your point about video games differing from other forms of art, as it does become much easier to become attached to a project that you feel you are actively a part of, much like the Mass Effect series has done for people. I still stand by my stance though that there is a proper way of expressing your discontent, and screaming out how your never gonna buy a bioware game isn't one of them (this is assuming you are still a fan and want to help bioware. if not then do whatever you want, your basically a troll at that point for being on a game forum that you dont even like). That is very common on these forums, and while I understand this isn't some special area where we all have to be polite to one another and be perfect gentleman/lady's, it doesn't mean we should just look at people and say 'Oh it's alright your acting childish, your a pissed off consumer! You can say whatever." (not insinuating this is what your advocating, just putting out there what I see on these forums)

[Linus108]

Despite my hate for the ending, 90% of the game was great. I would still 4/5 tbh

[gangly369]

“It's not about the destination, but the journey.” May work if you're talking about the roads of life and experience. It's a good adage to give someone graduating high school or university. If I'm spending upwards of $100.00 for a product—the destination better be as awesome as the journey or game over."

Really? Your taking that literally as well? It's about enjoying the story, and what you saw and heard along the way. It's also about not fixating over the ending so much as what happened before it. If we take your approach, then is it alright if I go and complain to the University that I don't feel as smart as I paid to be- gimme my money back? My thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars?T_T

(Just a broke and bitter university student. Pay no heed to this post)

[thunderhawk862002]

gangly369 wrote...

“It's not about the destination, but the journey.” May work if you're talking about the roads of life and experience. It's a good adage to give someone graduating high school or university. If I'm spending upwards of $100.00 for a product—the destination better be as awesome as the journey or game over."

Really? Your taking that literally as well? It's about enjoying the story, and what you saw and heard along the way. It's also about not fixating over the ending so much as what happened before it. If we take your approach, then is it alright if I go and complain to the University that I don't feel as smart as I paid to be- gimme my money back? My thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars?T_T

(Just a broke and bitter university student. Pay no heed to this post)

Well law students are suing law schools because they felt they were deceived on the jobs available after graduating.

[KBomb]

gangly369 wrote...

I never said people should accept it. What I'm saying is that many of the people's reaction to it is unwarranted , such as the 2 star ratings for only one aspect of a game. As I've said, I'm all for demanding the best that we can get from Bioware. I just disagree with how people are going about doing this, which is why I brought up the free dlc. Because like it or not, that is something that has been brought up many many times on these forums, and I don't see that as the proper way of going about this, I really don't. People can be mad and upset, but do it in a constructive manner. If this was a game for everyone (i.e people under 18 years old) then I could understand the reaction of people saying "this sucks" and all the drama queen nonsense. But it's not. This game is for adults, not kids, it's for a mature audience, so I would expect people to act like it. Will they? No, of course not, at least not everyone.

I can see your point about video games differing from other forms of art, as it does become much easier to become attached to a project that you feel you are actively a part of, much like the Mass Effect series has done for people. I still stand by my stance though that there is a proper way of expressing your discontent, and screaming out how your never gonna buy a bioware game isn't one of them (this is assuming you are still a fan and want to help bioware. if not then do whatever you want, your basically a troll at that point for being on a game forum that you dont even like). That is very common on these forums, and while I understand this isn't some special area where we all have to be polite to one another and be perfect gentleman/lady's, it doesn't mean we should just look at people and say 'Oh it's alright your acting childish, your a pissed off consumer! You can say whatever." (not insinuating this is what your advocating, just putting out there what I see on these forums)

 
I think you're seeing the trees and missing the forest. I wholeheartedly agree that any criticism and censure should be done in a polite, constructive manner. Nothing can be properly discussed when tempers rage and no one will listen to you if you're rude and abusive. Yes, of course there are trolls. There are also many, many gamers who are being articulate and straight-forward with their complaints. When you encounter a troll, ignore them. It' simple. Without attention, they'll move on. However, insulting those who do have legitimate concerns and labeling them as whiners speaks poorly of your ability to form a coherent argument against them. When you give all the attention to the trolls and ignore the legitimate complaints, you're adding to the problem, not adding to the solution.


You also can't say for a fact the people who rate the game with low numbers are being unwarranted in their reviews. As I said, reviews are opinions. If they feel the game didn't meet their expectations and the ending did ruin for them, then in their opinion, it deserves a low score. If they decide this is it, they should, as responsible consumers not buy any more products from Bioware until they can be assured their money is being spent in worthy fashion. You don't get to decide if they are properly upset or not. As for coming to this forum if you don't like the game. This is such a tiresome argument. Most people are upset because they freaking love this game. They come here hoping for news, resolution or just camaraderie with others who may share their disappointment and feel the need to discuss it. This isn't a fan only club. As much as Bioware loves positive feedback (anyone would) I am almost certain they don't want their fans insulting others because ME3 didn't meet their standard.

[kbct]

thunderhawk862002 wrote...

Well law students are suing law schools because they felt they were deceived on the jobs available after graduating.

Oh, the irony. If they win, the law school taught them well.

[KotorEffect3]

Jestina wrote...

Two is being kind of generous.

So either you are just a troll or you approve of review bombing.  Even with the bad endings ME 3 deserves no less than 4 out of 5 stars.  Fix the endings and the import issues and it is a 5 out of 5.