504 réponses à ce sujet

[KotorEffect3]

Linus108 wrote...

Despite my hate for the ending, 90% of the game was great. I would still 4/5 tbh

Precisely

[Zalbik]

I ****** on the ending, but the game still does not deserve the review bombings. For all but the end its a good game 

Modifié par Zalbik, 16 mars 2012 - 04:25 .

[KBomb]

gangly369 wrote...
Really? Your taking that literally as well? It's about enjoying the story, and what you saw and heard along the way. It's also about not fixating over the ending so much as what happened before it. If we take your approach, then is it alright if I go and complain to the University that I don't feel as smart as I paid to be- gimme my money back? My thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars?T_T

(Just a broke and bitter university student. Pay no heed to this post)

 
Uh, what? I meant it would be good advice to give someone starting out in life. You know, “Enjoy every experience, take nothing for granted! Remember it's the journey, not the destination!”


imo, I don't want that applied to a product I purchase. I want it all to mean something. To beginning to end. Especially an interactive story. Not sure exactly what you're trying to say about complaining about education. Totally out of context to what I meant.

Modifié par KBomb, 16 mars 2012 - 04:28 .

[kbct]

KBomb wrote...

I think you're seeing the trees and missing the forest. I wholeheartedly agree that any criticism and censure should be done in a polite, constructive manner. Nothing can be properly discussed when tempers rage and no one will listen to you if you're rude and abusive. Yes, of course there are trolls. There are also many, many gamers who are being articulate and straight-forward with their complaints. When you encounter a troll, ignore them. It' simple. Without attention, they'll move on. However, insulting those who do have legitimate concerns and labeling them as whiners speaks poorly of your ability to form a coherent argument against them. When you give all the attention to the trolls and ignore the legitimate complaints, you're adding to the problem, not adding to the solution.


You also can't say for a fact the people who rate the game with low numbers are being unwarranted in their reviews. As I said, reviews are opinions. If they feel the game didn't meet their expectations and the ending did ruin for them, then in their opinion, it deserves a low score. If they decide this is it, they should, as responsible consumers not buy any more products from Bioware until they can be assured their money is being spent in worthy fashion. You don't get to decide if they are properly upset or not. As for coming to this forum if you don't like the game. This is such a tiresome argument. Most people are upset because they freaking love this game. They come here hoping for news, resolution or just camaraderie with others who may share their disappointment and feel the need to discuss it. This isn't a fan only club. As much as Bioware loves positive feedback (anyone would) I am almost certain they don't want their fans insulting others because ME3 didn't meet their standard.

Well said, KBomb. You articulate yourself very well.

[Mr. Gogeta34]

What Bioware did should not be supported (doesn't make sense). Continue firing the review bombs.

It's one thing to have a bad ending, it's another thing to say the ending's not going to be a certain way (bad)... and then it's exactly that...

They're too talented for those endings to not be done on purpose... they did it to cut costs and sell DLC. This is not an example the industry should be following.

The trolls are the defenders... everyone else seems to know better...

[Ronin1325]

kbct wrote...

thunderhawk862002 wrote...

Well law students are suing law schools because they felt they were deceived on the jobs available after graduating.

Oh, the irony. If they win, the law school taught them well.

I don't want to derail the thread, but this isn't just law schools. Colleges & Universities all over the country are starting to get flack for charging so much for tuition, yet leaving the debt-ridden students nearly unprepared to get a job in their chosen field. To say nothing of having no contacts in the market.

As I've said before, my wife is a Director on Family Guy & has been in the animation business for 20ish years. A few years back some young friends of ours at a 'prestigious' art/animation school in Illinois were trying to get the school to host her to speak to the students. 

Even though this would have been a stellar way for them to network with someone who is regarded in the industry, they did not lift a *finger* to make it happen. They would not pay for travel, food, lodging, anything. My wife being the sweetie that she is, said she'd pay for all of that, but they were not even willing to let her rent a dorm on campus. Guh.   Personally I think the faculty was unwilling to let someone come & speak to their students who had far more real-world experience than they did. But that is just me.

As it turns out there is now an investigation into the school for just taking the student's tuition & running.

[KotorEffect3]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

What Bioware did should not be supported (doesn't make sense). Continue firing the review bombs.

It's one thing to have a bad ending, it's another thing to say the ending's not going to be a certain way (bad)... and then it's exactly that...

They're too talented for those endings to not be done on purpose... they did it to cut costs and sell DLC. This is not an example the industry should be following.

The trolls are the defenders... everyone else seems to know better...

Ok you are utterly full of crap.  Review bombing is downright worse than trolling it is dishonest and you know it.  The whole point  of reviewing something is to review the whole body of work, not just the stuff you don't like but also the stuff that was done well in order to give an accurate representation of the entire body of work not just the stuff you want to tear down.

[Ronin1325]

KotorEffect3 wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

What Bioware did should not be supported (doesn't make sense). Continue firing the review bombs.

It's one thing to have a bad ending, it's another thing to say the ending's not going to be a certain way (bad)... and then it's exactly that...

They're too talented for those endings to not be done on purpose... they did it to cut costs and sell DLC. This is not an example the industry should be following.

The trolls are the defenders... everyone else seems to know better...

Ok you are utterly full of crap.  Review bombing is downright worse than trolling it is dishonest and you know it.  The whole point  of reviewing something is to review the whole body of work, not just the stuff you don't like but also the stuff that was done well in order to give an accurate representation of the entire body of work not just the stuff you want to tear down.

Agreed completely KotorEffect3! There's no problem with being vocal if you believe you have a legitimate grievance, but for goodness sake, try to be civil about it! 

[yearsago]

Ailith430 wrote...

http://www.amazon.co.../ref=pd_cp_vg_1

2 stars with 443 customer reviews...

...

Daaayyuumm...

Hell hath no fury like a gamer scorned.

Makes sense to me.

[gangly369]

KBomb wrote...

gangly369 wrote...

I never said people should accept it. What I'm saying is that many of the people's reaction to it is unwarranted , such as the 2 star ratings for only one aspect of a game. As I've said, I'm all for demanding the best that we can get from Bioware. I just disagree with how people are going about doing this, which is why I brought up the free dlc. Because like it or not, that is something that has been brought up many many times on these forums, and I don't see that as the proper way of going about this, I really don't. People can be mad and upset, but do it in a constructive manner. If this was a game for everyone (i.e people under 18 years old) then I could understand the reaction of people saying "this sucks" and all the drama queen nonsense. But it's not. This game is for adults, not kids, it's for a mature audience, so I would expect people to act like it. Will they? No, of course not, at least not everyone.

I can see your point about video games differing from other forms of art, as it does become much easier to become attached to a project that you feel you are actively a part of, much like the Mass Effect series has done for people. I still stand by my stance though that there is a proper way of expressing your discontent, and screaming out how your never gonna buy a bioware game isn't one of them (this is assuming you are still a fan and want to help bioware. if not then do whatever you want, your basically a troll at that point for being on a game forum that you dont even like). That is very common on these forums, and while I understand this isn't some special area where we all have to be polite to one another and be perfect gentleman/lady's, it doesn't mean we should just look at people and say 'Oh it's alright your acting childish, your a pissed off consumer! You can say whatever." (not insinuating this is what your advocating, just putting out there what I see on these forums)

 
I think you're seeing the trees and missing the forest. I wholeheartedly agree that any criticism and censure should be done in a polite, constructive manner. Nothing can be properly discussed when tempers rage and no one will listen to you if you're rude and abusive. Yes, of course there are trolls. There are also many, many gamers who are being articulate and straight-forward with their complaints. When you encounter a troll, ignore them. It' simple. Without attention, they'll move on. However, insulting those who do have legitimate concerns and labeling them as whiners speaks poorly of your ability to form a coherent argument against them. When you give all the attention to the trolls and ignore the legitimate complaints, you're adding to the problem, not adding to the solution.


You also can't say for a fact the people who rate the game with low numbers are being unwarranted in their reviews. As I said, reviews are opinions. If they feel the game didn't meet their expectations and the ending did ruin for them, then in their opinion, it deserves a low score. If they decide this is it, they should, as responsible consumers not buy any more products from Bioware until they can be assured their money is being spent in worthy fashion. You don't get to decide if they are properly upset or not. As for coming to this forum if you don't like the game. This is such a tiresome argument. Most people are upset because they freaking love this game. They come here hoping for news, resolution or just camaraderie with others who may share their disappointment and feel the need to discuss it. This isn't a fan only club. As much as Bioware loves positive feedback (anyone would) I am almost certain they don't want their fans insulting others because ME3 didn't meet their standard.

Im sorry, but where are you getting all this? When did I say I was ignoring legitimate complaints? The whole purpose of my post is that I'm calling out people who are giving out ratings such as 1/5 with their review being 'this sucks'. And yes I can call out reviews and ratings like that because they aren't constructive, they do nothing but show that they dont like the game. If you give a 1/5, fine, but have a decent review behind it at least to explain why. And who said anything about being 'properly upset'? I'm talking about conducting yourself properly around other people. I don't think there is a 'proper' way to be upset, seeing as thats you being angry over something and just a building up of raw, negative emotions. And when did I say this is a fan only club? I pointed out that people who have come on here and claimed they are no longer buying these games and are leaving forever are still sticking around and posting. Exactly how are you still a fan if you claim to not like Bioware games anymore?

If your referring to the guy I originally responded to, I only used his post because I agreed with start of it. The rest of my arguement was directed to people in general, not him/her. Much as my troll comment was, it was directed to people in general, not anyone in particular.

And thanks for the troll advice I guess? I don't need it and don't see why you put that in there, but okay. 

Edit: to add onto my first point, I'm not disregarding that people are upset. That much is obvious when you see the low scores. But many low scores, such as the ones on metacritic, were premeditated. Such things are not acceptable, as you have already pointed out that you agree with. What I don't think you understand is that all I want is for people to be a little more civil. Thats it. We already got the message that people are upset, now explain it.

Modifié par gangly369, 16 mars 2012 - 04:54 .

[Mr. Gogeta34]

KotorEffect3 wrote...
Ok you are utterly full of crap.  Review bombing is downright worse than trolling it is dishonest and you know it.  The whole point  of reviewing something is to review the whole body of work, not just the stuff you don't like but also the stuff that was done well in order to give an accurate representation of the entire body of work not just the stuff you want to tear down.

Review bombing is bad... so is review boosting with fake 100% scores.  Some people legitimately feel it deserves the score they gave it.... strange concept, I know.

And if they feel that way, they are free to voice it.  You can't view every low score as 'review bombing' in the derrogatory as they may feel any part of something makes the entire thing irrelevant... whether you agree or not.

When a large number of reviews are bad (bombed)... more often than not, there's a legitimate reason for it.  Fact.

And as far as being "utterly full of crap."  Hardly, I give the game a 94% overall... but that doesn't mean the ending didn't suck.

Review bombs don't happen just because gamers are in the mood to see a series fail... I'd think a little harder about why fans are so upset before drawing ignorant conclusions.

Modifié par Mr. Gogeta34, 16 mars 2012 - 04:52 .

[yearsago]

Anonymass wrote...

This is only going to harm the people working at BioWare.

Take a look at what happened to Obsidian:

http://www.vg247.com...lout-new-vegas/

THey should have thought of that before releasing the game with the ending we have.

[PiEman]

ODST 3 wrote...

 Yep, and I'm one of those reviews. It killed me to do it because I loved 99% of this great game. But the endings killed the whole experience for me. It wasn't what we were promised and is not acceptable.

This.

I'm not lying down and taking this while Bioware pulls my hair and asks me "Who's your daddy?"

[SidNitzerglobin]

People are certainly entitled to voice their opinion if they played it, but a 2.5 rating of the game as a whole seems pretty low to me to claim any attempt at objectivity.

Concepts of the ending, hmmm around a 3 of 5. Hard to say as they weren't really explored in a very extensive or coherent way. I actually give them credit for not wanting to end it w/ a Hollywood style, "Shepard and crew fly off into the stars in their new unicorn and rainbow powered Normandy SR3 that they unlocked by killing the Reapers" ending, but not giving a bit more clear resolution for the characters that we've come to know and love over the course of the series was unsatisfying and confusing.

Execution of the ending from the time you reach the Citadel: 1.5 of 5. It almost seemed like they handed off the writing to a summer intern w/ only a 4 or 5 sentence outline of what was supposed to take place. The last 45 minutes of the game also has some of the most touching bits of dialog in recent gaming memory for me though, w/ a couple exceptions the conversations w/ your squad mates current and past were very well done and very satisfying.

There were also other issues throughout compared to the rest of the series, like some pretty awkward editing/cinematography/VO delivery in a good number of the dialogs, an inability to directly import your Shepard's face and hit or miss results plugging in the facecode manually, a downgrade overall in animations, a return to ME1 type texture pop-in, a somewhat limited variety of the types of enemies being faced.

On the pro side, incredible environments throughout, really fun and tight gameplay, some very good bits of writing, a lot of great interactions w/  great characters, honestly a lot more consequences of your choices throughout the series than I was expecting during the whole recruitment process, great soundtrack, great setting.

My personal rating when trying to judge the game as a whole at this point puts it around a 3.75 - 4 of 5. Disappointing being the final chapter in Shepard's saga, but by no means horrible on a whole and still something I'm sure I will play multiple times since the vast majority of the game is super enjoyable and draws me in as I would have expected.  With a more fleshed out resolution and no other changes I'd guess it might be a 4.5 for me.

Modifié par SidNitzerglobin, 16 mars 2012 - 05:08 .

[Mr. Gogeta34]

What Bioware defenders are really saying is: Let Bioware get as much money and praise as humanly possible with what they gave us.

[thunderhawk862002]

You know Amazon could help correct this by being able to sort out verified purchases and to also make the aggregate fun score known. Some of the 1 ratings have higher fun ratings. Additionally verified purchaser should be given more merit since they actually bought the game on the site. I don't see why they allow you to rate the fun score if it doesn't appear as an aggregate.

[Mr. Gogeta34]

What about those who rented the game?

[Ronin1325]

After looking at everyone's comments, maybe a thread could be started on the general importance of a story's ending to the entire story itself? I would, but I don't want to get threadlocked again, I still have whiplash from the last time. So, someone else? "Very dangerous YOU go first!"

[Darknessfalls23]

I am torn because I don't think MA3 should of all the glowing reviews it got from the main stream game reviewers.

[gangly369]

KBomb wrote...

gangly369 wrote...
Really? Your taking that literally as well? It's about enjoying the story, and what you saw and heard along the way. It's also about not fixating over the ending so much as what happened before it. If we take your approach, then is it alright if I go and complain to the University that I don't feel as smart as I paid to be- gimme my money back? My thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars?T_T

(Just a broke and bitter university student. Pay no heed to this post)

 
Uh, what? I meant it would be good advice to give someone starting out in life. You know, “Enjoy every experience, take nothing for granted! Remember it's the journey, not the destination!”


imo, I don't want that applied to a product I purchase. I want it all to mean something. To beginning to end. Especially an interactive story. Not sure exactly what you're trying to say about complaining about education. Totally out of context to what I meant.

Hence the 'Pay no heed to this post'? I thought it was fairly obvious I was playing around with what you said with the graduating from education. Here let me try again:

PAY NO HEED TO THIS POST, I'm not being serious.

Clear lol?

[thunderhawk862002]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

What about those who rented the game?

Well the most popular rental places are Gamefly and Redbox  and both allow you to review games.  I'm just saying it's weird that Amazon doesn't have a serachable feature for verified purchases is all.  That way people viewing the site can actually see what people thought of the product they bought..  They list it as a feature, why not make it searchable?

[wolfstanus]

Let me get this right most people loved 90-99% of the game so it deserves 1-2 stars...

Lol at the logic

[KBomb]

gangly369 wrote...

*snipped for space*

 
When speaking of the trolls, “you” was a term I was using for the general forum populace.

I still stand by my stance though that there is a proper way of expressing your discontent, and screaming out how your never gonna buy a bioware game isn't one of them (this is assuming you are still a fan and want to help bioware. if not then do whatever you want, your basically a troll at that point for being on a game forum that you dont even like)

This is where I get the fan thing from. People come here for different reasons and if they are genuinely upset over the game, I'd say they were fans to begin with. I can say, “I am really disappointed and will no longer be spending my money on a Bioware game until I see improvement.” I'd still come here for news and hope. I think most people would. That isn't trolling.


As for constructive criticism. If I am writing out my concerns for a developer to see, I may list only the complaints I have. Same thing with a review. Some may do it differently, but if I am writing something for constructive criticism, I won't list all the things I love about because if it isn't in the criticism, then it's logical that I enjoyed that aspect. I don't agree with bomb reviews and metacritic is known for that. It isn't right, but it goes both ways. Bombing something with perfect scores is just as bad. It isn't constructive, but neither is this:

Or, you know, the majority of you will just skim over this and resume your whining about wanting more and more. /sigh first world problems, eh?

[Rorschachinstein]

Main stream critics were wrong to give it such disgustingly high reviews. And fans were wrong for giving it such horrible low reviews.

LOL WUT?

[OutlawTorn6806]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

What Bioware defenders are really saying is: Let Bioware get as much money and praise as humanly possible with what they gave us.

Wrong. Why is it always about money to you people?