128 réponses à ce sujet

[paynesgrey]

Caz Neerg wrote...

 I think we all need to get a little perspective here.  Did most of us here absolutely hate these endings, but love the rest of the game?  Clearly.  But imagine how the devs must feel right now.  For the hundreds of hours we have devoted to playing the series, they've devoted thousands to creating it.  Then the magnum opus is released, and critical reaction is universally positive.  Then fans start play, and still the reaction is universally positive.  Then fans start getting to the end, and... *BOOM* the internet explodes.

They have to know exactly how we feel at this point, because just like we enjoyed 95% of the game before being shattered by the ending, they enjoyed 95% of the reaction before being just as shocked and shattered when our response to the endings hit.  And, again, where we have devoted hundreds of hours, they have devoted thousands.  So let's try to be a little understanding and give them time to process.  They have to understand, from how they are feeling, how we do, and if we don't burn all our bridges, that may be exactly the thing that gets them to give us what we want so badly, and allow Mass Effect to recapture the legacy it deserves.

I understand your viewpoint, but I look at the way I would a date that was amazing and epic, until we got to her appartment and I heard the music from The Crying Game start. Pretty much cancels out the rest of the evening in my book. 

As for the Devs investment of time and effort and such, when you make a marketing or even a purely artistic decision you know your target audience won't like, then you choose the response.  One can't feel entitled to positive acclaim for their decisions in a producing a game without being willing to take it on the chin from the people who don't like your choices or "change of vision" or whatever.

In short, when one wants to "evoke an emotional response," one needs to man up and accept the negative responses head on, not pretend that "criticism by a horde" is "discussion" or "debate" or try to pretend "people just don't understand the ending.  If we explain it, then they'll love it."  People understood the ending just fine.  They're mad because it's lack of quality broke The 4th Wall so badly that all the positvive aspects of the game experience poured out the hole.

[VyseN1]

I do feel bad for them. I am against being nasty to them. But this is their mess, and I simply can't understand how/if they didn't see this backlash coming. They have their work cut out for them right now.

[spartan5127]

I would hope that developers that worked on other parts of the game understand that our beef is with the ending and not with the rest of the game. The people who are responsible for the ending are the ones that should feel bad, not the people responsible for the gun-play.

[WazTheMagnificent]

I'm trying my best to put myself in the developers shoes, but I've never swam in a murky soup of fan tears and money before, so it's hard to relate.

[Caz Neerg]

ztonkin wrote...
In response to the OP, I don't feel bad for them. This is the mess they created, even if they honestly weren't expecting it, though IDK how they couldn't.

I'm not talking about sympathy, I'm being practical.  The whammy they got hit with is substantially larger than the one we got hit with, it's going to take some time for them to stop seeing stars and be able to engage in a meaningful way, and it could take longer if we just keep relentlessly pummelling them while they are down.

[gombie]

blame the publisher for breathing down their necks. bioware are probably ashamed at themselves for making an ending to their beautiful work of art.

[SirCroft]

Putting myself in the developers' shoes, I'd change the ending.

[AlexXIV]

If I was a developer I would be embarrassed. And I would tell the guy who is responsible for the endings what I think of it. That's probably for many devs as bad as for us. Especially those who actually did a great job. But for us they are all Bioware. Because that's the only way we can see them. We don't know who did what etc.

[Verit]

2484Stryker wrote...
I'm sure most of us aren't advocating any kind of rash action. Most of us just wants Bioware to know how bad they screwed up the ending and would appreciate some kind of post-launch change.

This. I think the developers did a great change for the vast majority of the game, enough for me to care more about this trilogy than any other I've played in the past ten years. I'd just like to see it end properly.

[Midarenkov]

Okay. I resign, effective immediately. Step two would be start my own company

[mawdudi]

There's is no reason for us to imagine us in developers shoes. They're a business trying to make profit, we are customers. Gaming industry is just business just like tobacco industry,fashion industy and so on.

Actually its viceversa: developers should imagine themselfes in our shoes. Because if they dont get our money, they go out of business and our money goes to some other company.

[tommythetomcat]

Dark Wyn wrote...

tommythetomcat wrote...

No one wanted speculation, people wanted some sort of closure.

And THAT is what we were promised.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but we were PROMISED a true ending that wrapped everything up with no questions.

I can imagine what the dev's are feeling in regards to this backlash and I'm one of the ones who's desperately wanting to give them the chance to make things right.  I won't lie I'm angry as hell now after "final hours"...but that's besides the point.

What they need to do now is TALK to us.  Not leave an ambiguous tweet or a "we're listening" on facebook.  An actual statement about this issue.  At this point in time I think that's what we all want first. 

You know whats funny, I could handle the unoriginal space magic idea if they didn't have the same 2min of cutscences AND have zero explaination of just about anything.

I can even look passed the repear god child if the ending wasn't so brief and fruitless.  There is no meat on its bones hence the whole LOTS OF SPECULATION(because its fun to end a trilogy with huge questions unaswered)

Funny thing is they are not helping themselves with the whole we wont release post ending DLC thing, that doesn't throw a new ending DLC out the window but I am not hopeful.

[Zalera1]

There were more parts in the game that were rushed not just the ending.

First of all they could have done more with an interesting character such as Kai Leng. The boss fights were boring even on Insanity, completed them on first try.

The Illusive Man could have been a nice boss fight with Indoctrination effects.

We knew nothing or not much about Vega suddenly he is part of your crew as if he was there for ME1 and ME2 too. In ME3 we barely get to know James well, in my opinion he could have offered more to the game.

War Assets and EMS didnt matter much. Dissapointed I couldnt assign ships/troops to defend the world(s), I thought that at some point I had to divide them, make use of them at least.

Expected another suicide mission in the middle of the game or near the end but none of that happend either.

I could go on like this but I'll stop here. There are just too many flaws in ME3 that easily could have been done better.

[Spectre_Shepard]

i agree, but they better start talking soon

[KorPhaeron]

Koobarex wrote...

I don't put myself in the shoes of the makers of a faulty car that caught fire with me inside, just as I didn't put myself in the shoes of Microsoft designers when my X360 displayed the red ring of death. In the same way I don't pat directors on the back if they make an extremely flawed ending to a great movie. I am not an empath, or anyone that has such responsibilities.

In this case I am a customer, a fan and a community member of a great trilogy that went horribly wrong in the last few minutes, and went wrong to such an extent that I do not believe that no one in QA or survey groups didn't notice it. We're talking about plot holes shattering both the player experience and the universe of the game, both crafted so masterfully during 95% of the game that the broken endings stinged so much harder.

We're talking flaws that can be fixed, but only if rushed action is taken by the consumers and then translated into fast action by the designers - which is the dynamic our little "Hold the Line" ordeal seems to be about. We want a different ending, and we want a guarantee that it will happen. When we get it, we can reevaluate the product and talk about those 95% (100% by then, hopefully) and be all squeeky and geeky about it.

You write about "burning bridges"? The BioWare employees aren't your friends or family members (I would like to acknowledge that one of the community managers actually went at length to remind that by reminding us that these games aren't designed for us personally, but for a "wide focus group"), they are artists, and programmers, and designers, and quality specialists paid for what they do from the money they gain from your support. Demanding a remake for something terminally flawed in a product I bought, cherished for the most part and did my best to advertise around and support should not be called "bridgeburning". Unless you refer to people calling the designers names, but that's not "bridgeburning", that's called being a [human organ without a quad].

We have invested ourselves into a product that has changed its entire meaning at the very end and we are dissatisfied. Venting this directly to the team responsible for this, informing about it publicly and warning that we may take our love, money and time (FIVE years) elsewhere is the most responsible thing we can do in a free market world. Especially if the flaw is as earth-shattering and crucial to the whole product as this one.

[MaskofSkin]

Well if I was in the developers shoes, I'd be thinking, man we miscalculated bad. How do we fix it?

[xMellowhype]

 You mean making a lot of money? Yup, I'm dedicating rivers of tears to them.

[Norskebanan]

ew chris your shoes are all soggy and sweaty, god!

[Voidster]

Company's are now squeezing consumers for every dime they can get. IF this ending chaos is part of that, greed, then bioware no longer cares for the story, art or any of that. the number one thing for any corp is to make profit, just think...1 million copies on the first day, thats 60 million bucks. Not for bioware, but split between the dev, publisher, shippers, retailers, artists, this n that.

could blame the economy, im sure EA will try to.

If i was in their shoes though, id delay the release, ask the public in very selected groups (random pick with NDA agreements) what they think, how the beta was. then if the release wasn't up to par, id have a backup plan already set. Of course i have no idea how the monster EA handles things, they could have just threatened to shut the whole thing down if BW didnt deliver on time.

Even if i did release a sim in this state, i wouldn't mess with the fans, i would not allow more than a few days of speculation before i filled them in. id tell them to hold on, expect a change in the future. i would explain things thoroughly then set out to do it. I learned a lot from the SOTS2 release, wish other publishers and devs would ask them how they kept their fans.

[detroitmechworks]

trekkie1701c wrote...

It's entirely possible that it's a mishmash of #'s 1 and 2.  They may not be allowed to say anything until a plan is in place. 

If it's as you say... They need to fire every single member of their PR department.  Clearly, they're complete and utter idiots.

[Caz Neerg]

xMellowhype wrote...

 You mean making a lot of money? Yup, I'm dedicating rivers of tears to them.

You really think that if the only thing they cared about is money, that this is the profession they would go into?  They care about putting out a quality product, and there is no way it isn't a massive blow to them that fans are so universally rejecting the ending, especially in the context of how positive response to everything else is.  Like I said in the OP, remember how the ending made you feel, then picture having that come after thousands of hours instead of hundreds.

Again, not saying you have to have sympathy, but a little understanding never hurt anybody.

[Madecologist]

2484Stryker wrote...

I'm sure most of us aren't advocating any kind of rash action. Most of us just wants Bioware to know how bad they screwed up the ending and would appreciate some kind of post-launch change.

Some of us just want to make sure the books remember the ending was bad and that the devs know they did drop the ball.

It sucks, but I am pretty sure all of us have made mistakes at our jobs or in school and had to have our employers or professors give us 'the speech'. Heck I think everyone wants the industry as a whole to grow. ME3 as a game alone was great, but if some companies like Bioware who make the claim that games can be more need to be also held to that higher standard. Games will never be more if the bar isn't set higher.

Modifié par Madecologist, 16 mars 2012 - 01:46 .

[SamFlagg]

I work with devs every day.  Use Cases and testing and such (Non video game related.)

I can apprciate the hard work they put in.

But when you tell us that the game will have 16 endings, no LOST nonsense, no choices all ending with A B and C, and then procede to give us the exact opposite of that.  This is what you get.

Harrassment and stalking are unacceptable.  That's not what is happening in 95% of the threads here.

The game is not what we were told we were buying.  The ending devalues the rest of the game for the vast majority of us.

If they want to truly engage in a conversation about what went right, first it has to be acknowledged what went wrong.

[charmedmeat]

Caz Neerg wrote...

 I think we all need to get a little perspective here.  Did most of us here absolutely hate these endings, but love the rest of the game?  Clearly.  But imagine how the devs must feel right now.  For the hundreds of hours we have devoted to playing the series, they've devoted thousands to creating it.  Then the magnum opus is released, and critical reaction is universally positive.  Then fans start play, and still the reaction is universally positive.  Then fans start getting to the end, and... *BOOM* the internet explodes.

They have to know exactly how we feel at this point, because just like we enjoyed 95% of the game before being shattered by the ending, they enjoyed 95% of the reaction before being just as shocked and shattered when our response to the endings hit.  And, again, where we have devoted hundreds of hours, they have devoted thousands.  So let's try to be a little understanding and give them time to process.  They have to understand, from how they are feeling, how we do, and if we don't burn all our bridges, that may be exactly the thing that gets them to give us what we want so badly, and allow Mass Effect to recapture the legacy it deserves.

How can you spend thousands of hours creating what people expect, then intentionally give them something totally different and off the wall at the end?  Sorry I feel no pity for the devs, anyone remotely invested in the game would realize the ending was **** and should have screamed about it internally.  Perhaps they did and the company line is just more lies.  If that's the case, I totally feel for them, but I have absolutely no pity or remorse for Casey or Mac.  The buck stops with them, and from everything they've said it was all their idea.

[DaosX]

If you guys seriously think all of this was not planned out ahead of time, you're completely mistaken. They knew what they were doing. It was already obvious from their past that they were planning on adding DLC to it...the question was simply how. If they added missions, people might not buy it because what's the point of buying additional DLC for a trilogy that ends here? The answer is by cutting out something that is essential: the ending. They KNEW that people would get pissed off about it (yet most would still begrudgingly buy it) but their greed got in the way. It's just that plain and simple. The one thing they didn't realize was just HOW pissed off the people would become...