128 réponses à ce sujet

[goose2989]

 As the OP stated, I can't imagine how everyone at Bioware feels right now. It would be a huge smack in the face to get this reaction, and I really hope everyone in Bioware feels better. 

But you know what would make them feel better? Ending DLC that makes their fans feel better. If we're happy, they're happy. The concept is simple. While I understand that any Ending DLC will not take some time to develop, the idea is not complicated. DLC is always optional, so no one "HAS" to have it. The people that did like the game as-is can keep the game as it is now. But the majority of us will get the chance to have our closure and happy ending. 

Not everyone liked Lair of the Shadow Broker, but the beauty is if you don't like the sound of it, don't download it. The same goes for ending DLC. And if Bioware really didn't want to make the next Mass Effect game at a future time in the series, then who cares if some people have the ending that came with the game, and the rest of us have DLC that gives us a happy ending?

[Sinekein]

There are a lot of critics that insist on the fact that ME3 is awesome until Harbinger happens.
Some flame wars have been far more filled with hate than this one.

[SandTrout]

BrotherFluffy wrote...

I'm sorry, but when the Project Lead says "There will be no A, B, or C-style choice" at the end and then does exactly that, I have a hard time being sympathetic. When you base your whole Marketing strategy around "TAKE EARTH BACK" when you actually plan to plunge the galaxy into a new Dark Ages, I have a hard time seeing things from their perspective.

This is close enough to my feelings for the matter.

[Chuvvy]

Maybe next time they could consider not blatantly lying in marketing, or maybe, they could focus more on a good end, and less on gimmicks like Multiplayer, Kinect, and unnecessary cameos from minor internet celebrities.

[Caz Neerg]

Slidell505 wrote...

Maybe next time they could consider not blatantly lying in marketing, or maybe, they could focus more on a good end, and less on gimmicks like Multiplayer, Kinect, and unnecessary cameos from minor internet celebrities.

The only real problem was in the writing of the last five minutes.  They don't have the same people working on actually writing the game that work on multiplayer, Kinect, or casting.  And from what we are hearing, it seems to be the case that they actually believed they were creating a good end.  As hard as it might be to believe, it is theoretically possible that everybody who was involved in the decision making process at BioWare belongs to the two percent who think the ending was appropriate.

But it isn't important at this point what they were thinking, because the damage is done.  What's important now is what they do going forward, and the more of us there are who act like rabid hyenas out for their blood, the less likely they are to be willing to give us better endings, despite the fact that from a business and PR standpoint, doing so is a no brainer.  

They are emotionally invested too, so turning it into "us vs. them" is a bad idea, we need to concentrate on the theory that with new ending DLC, everybody wins.  We get the ending we expected in the first place, they get loads more money, and the franchise itself manages to preserve it's place in gaming history, instead of becoming a cautionary tale.

[Kami102]

SandTrout wrote...

BrotherFluffy wrote...

I'm sorry, but when the Project Lead says "There will be no A, B, or C-style choice" at the end and then does exactly that, I have a hard time being sympathetic. When you base your whole Marketing strategy around "TAKE EARTH BACK" when you actually plan to plunge the galaxy into a new Dark Ages, I have a hard time seeing things from their perspective.

This is close enough to my feelings for the matter.

[Silver]

DaosX wrote...

If you guys seriously think all of this was not planned out ahead of time, you're completely mistaken. They knew what they were doing. It was already obvious from their past that they were planning on adding DLC to it...the question was simply how. If they added missions, people might not buy it because what's the point of buying additional DLC for a trilogy that ends here? The answer is by cutting out something that is essential: the ending. They KNEW that people would get pissed off about it (yet most would still begrudgingly buy it) but their greed got in the way. It's just that plain and simple. The one thing they didn't realize was just HOW pissed off the people would become...

And in doing so they already lost a lot of their once loyal fanbase, people who stuck with them for years... what a way to splatter your frickin' brains all over the wall.

[Xaijin]

People understood the ending just fine. They're mad because it's lack of quality broke The 4th Wall so badly that all the positive aspects of the game experience poured out the hole.

[Mystical_Gaming]

The shatter in the fanbase from the ME3 ending is the same thing that happened with halo and it never recovered (yet).

The devs of Halo made reach the worst halo game ever and betrayed their loyal fans of the series by introducing noob and casual gameplay therefore destroying everything halo once stood for just to get more money and bigger numbers. They went off their path of success to a torn and now empty fanbase. Bungie's forum with Reach is more dead than ever and even the new house of halo on the waypoint forums is barely popular by any means.  Halo is now at a crucial killing point where is halo 4 fails it will most likely never be a big name game series of xbox again.

my point comparing halo to ME3 ...

I feel the same way almost with an ending like Mass Effect 3 had. It basically has made fans loyal to the series since day one leave or lose hope. Probably even fans before ME and with KOTOR are leaving. How could bioware mess it up? The formula they had with KOTOR ending was brilliant. They had the epic battle, final dialogue scenes where you as the player get more choices to close out the game, and finally some nice cut scenes and credits.

Big game companies should learn by now. Don't change what isn't broke and only improve on what needs fixing. This doesn't mean never add new gameplay mechanics but once you try to copy another big game series or do thing radically different than what you've been doing it turns everything upside down in a continuing trilogy and series like Mass Effect.

Modifié par Mystical_Gaming, 16 mars 2012 - 04:52 .

[Caz Neerg]

For those of you not feeling any sympathy for the devs, consider this hypothetical; what if the theory that this isn't the real ending turns out to be true, and the real ending is exactly what we would want? What if the only reason they haven't said anything is that their EA overlords have demanded they continue the epic trolling to keep us all stirred to a frenzy of anticipation? In that case, we would be inflicting a lot of bile on people who have done nothing to earn it, and are only being silent because they want to keep their jobs, not because they are toying with us.

Hell, it's easier to believe all of that than to believe that they actually think this is a good ending.

[Dreogan]

Crush them. Break them. And then they won't do it ever again. Or at least think twice.

Modifié par Dreogan, 16 mars 2012 - 06:16 .

[The Almighty Ali]

If we, who's spent hundred of hourse playing the game, think the end in ME 3 is severely low quality and overall bad compared to the game and entire series.
You'd think those who spent thousands of hours creating it wouldn've seen it aswell.

[firebreather19]

Caz Neerg wrote...

For those of you not feeling any sympathy for the devs, consider this hypothetical; what if the theory that this isn't the real ending turns out to be true, and the real ending is exactly what we would want? What if the only reason they haven't said anything is that their EA overlords have demanded they continue the epic trolling to keep us all stirred to a frenzy of anticipation? In that case, we would be inflicting a lot of bile on people who have done nothing to earn it, and are only being silent because they want to keep their jobs, not because they are toying with us.

Hell, it's easier to believe all of that than to believe that they actually think this is a good ending.

They can't believe this. Not because it's not logical or expected, but because they're husks. They lack logic and only rush headfirst with incomprehensible rage towards things. Like the edges of cliffs or walls or Shepard's beastly Predator trigger-finger.

[Apocsapel91]

We wanted closure. We got a cliffhanger. I loved the game and am actually able to bring myself to play it again because I wrote my own ending. However, I shouldn't need to re-write the last portion of a game in order to enjoy it.

[Taleroth]

I don't like other people experiencing negative feelings. I'm a man of empathy.

That said, no, they don't have to know how we feel. Understanding is not a given. It is desired, however.

[Wowlock]

I can understand their position....to a point. But from what we seen so far, they actually Planned this ending where they had so many chances to fix it before the release.

I call that digging your own hole. And if they don't care about that, why should I bend-over backwards to make them feel good while I feel like crap ?

[bigtymers1211]

Lets just say this: if I am a head writer for a magazine and someone wrote me an article that is based on speculation and go against everything the magazine had stood for, I will literally fired that writer on the spot...(I am not saying fired the writer of ME3, I am just stating what my feeling is)

Speculation is NEVER a good thing if it goes against what had already been established as fact, in this case, Mass Effect's constant theme of CHOICES. If they have problem come up with an ending and need more time, FINE, come out and say it and we will be willing to wait, you hand in a half-baked product and u expect to get yelled at and face the wraith of the consumers.

This is like school, u don't expect to get full credit for something that is only half-done, and that's the bottom line.

[Xandax]

Caz Neerg wrote...

 I think we all need to get a little perspective here.  Did most of us here absolutely hate these endings, but love the rest of the game?  Clearly.  But imagine how the devs must feel right now.  For the hundreds of hours we have devoted to playing the series, they've devoted thousands to creating it.  Then the magnum opus is released, and critical reaction is universally positive.  Then fans start play, and still the reaction is universally positive.  Then fans start getting to the end, and... *BOOM* the internet explodes.

They have to know exactly how we feel at this point, because just like we enjoyed 95% of the game before being shattered by the ending, they enjoyed 95% of the reaction before being just as shocked and shattered when our response to the endings hit.  And, again, where we have devoted hundreds of hours, they have devoted thousands.  So let's try to be a little understanding and give them time to process.  They have to understand, from how they are feeling, how we do, and if we don't burn all our bridges, that may be exactly the thing that gets them to give us what we want so badly, and allow Mass Effect to recapture the legacy it deserves.

The anger everybody shows, the distrust, the disbelif - it's not
against those people, so it's kinda pointless to preface every complaint
with "Bioware, except for these guys" because it's kinda implied when people talk about a company that it's the decisions makers in that process.
Every post would be tl;dr so people say Bioware because - the target is Bioware.

And there - the understand stops when they take my money and give me something else than promised.
Yes - it's not the "peons" fault who just implement the decision but they're still part of the process, they're still part of the BIoware that thought it a good idea so they'll automatically get hit by the flack Bioware is now getting.

[Billabong2011]

If I were in their shoes, the ending wouldn't have been so sh**tastically blown to hell. The rest of the game is an absolute masterpiece, I will be the first to proclaim this. That's what makes the fallacies of the endings all the more apparent.

[Leafs43]

They have testing for this kind of stuff.

If no one told them the endings were a bad idea, they had a systematic failure in their testing program.

[Sam Anders]

I can't put myself in their shoes because I can't see how they go from the first 29 hours or so of the game to the last 10 minutes.

I just can't picture how anybody who wrote the really good stuff (99+% of the game) could have possibly thought the very end (<1%) was anywhere near acceptable.

[Linus108]

It's hard to reply to this thread, because we are making some assumptions..

Is the ending we got 100% it? Was that the end end..they wanted? Or were they trying to put a twist on the story, and extend the ending with free DLC at a later date?

If we go with it was their original intent for an ending, then okay. I do feel bad for them. They wrote something they must have thought was good, and the majority hated it. As any artist will tell you, it never feels good when people reject your work. It sucks. But at the same time, that is part of being an artist. They have tough skin. You have to have tough skin. It's apart of the deal. 

I have this same view with them being businessmen. They want to make money, and fans are upset with the product they got. Ultimately they made a lot of money off this game. So they can''t view it other than success. But form a business point of view, it must be worrisome that the reaction has been so bad. Could hurt their longtime sales, and brand/trust with their customers.

Modifié par Linus108, 16 mars 2012 - 06:33 .

[Rice Rocket]

Billabong2011 wrote...

If I were in their shoes, the ending wouldn't have been so sh**tastically blown to hell. The rest of the game is an absolute masterpiece, I will be the first to proclaim this. That's what makes the fallacies of the endings all the more apparent.

I agree.
If I were in their shoes I wouldn't muck up the ending like that.
Amazing how they were able to do that.
Imagine what else they can do.

[Kloborgg711]

I think they should see there are two options.

We can go with the fans who we profess to share development with, spend resources to create or offer them alternative DLC, gain back most of their loyalty, and hopefully solidify reputation enough to make the venture profitable.

or

We can hold to our own "artistic ideals" and DLC plans, ignore the fans' requests, hope the people complaining are a much smaller number than they appear, and hope that the negativity doesn't really do all that much damage.



From a purely profit-centric view, it's really difficult to discern the better choice here. I would think if it came down to it though, they would side with their fan base. I hope at least.

[avmf8]

Caz Neerg wrote...

For those of you not feeling any sympathy for the devs, consider this hypothetical; what if the theory that this isn't the real ending turns out to be true, and the real ending is exactly what we would want? What if the only reason they haven't said anything is that their EA overlords have demanded they continue the epic trolling to keep us all stirred to a frenzy of anticipation? In that case, we would be inflicting a lot of bile on people who have done nothing to earn it, and are only being silent because they want to keep their jobs, not because they are toying with us.

Hell, it's easier to believe all of that than to believe that they actually think this is a good ending.

Just have to say if what was shown in game was not the real ending I am actually more angry. If they did that and planned it then yes I would nash at them like a blood thirsty hyenna. The only reason EA games would do this is to charge for the real ending.

Number one rule for game makers "do not cut the ending to sell as DLC" that is the one thing a developer should never do. Other things can be forgiven but the ending is a crutial part of the game you do not cut that out.


Think of a game like that fire pyramid. You know where to have fire you need 3 sides oxygen, heat, and fuel. Now the game pyramid goes like this beggining, middle, end take away one of those 3 sides the pyramid collapses and you don't have a game.

I will have no sympathy for a dev that would damage or remove a major component of the game.  I will look at it from there shoos if they look at it from mine. I have not wanted to play games since I seen the end of a game. They have really harmed my hobby.