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[GOODKyle]

 On Deciding the End of the Game
"The illusive man boss fight had been scrapped... but there was still much debate. 'One night walters scribbled down some thought on various ways the game could end with the line "Lots of speculation for Everyone!" at the bottom of the page.'

In truth the final bits of dialogue were debated right up until the end of 2011. Martin sheen's voice-over session for the illusive man, originally scheduled for August, was delayed until mid-November so the writers would have more time to finesse the ending.

And even in November the gameplay team was still experimenting with an endgame sequence where players would suddenly lose control of Shepard's movement and fall under full reaper control. (This sequence was dropped because the gameplay  mechanic  proved too troublesome to implement alongside dialogue choices)"

So what I'm getting from this is that the gameplay of Shepard being indoctrinated was scrapped. Not the idea or plotpoint of it. So Indoc is still very well on the table: http://social.biowar...5/index/9804665 

Thoughts?

Modifié par GOODKyle, 16 mars 2012 - 01:19 .

[Eyeshield21]

somehow, at this point, yeah seemed like a better idea.

[Thumb Fu]

Interesting, very interesting. I'm really looking forward to the team being let off the leash and being allowed to talk about it. I can see some great discussions and insight into what the ending was actually meant to be, from the writers perspective.

[Fingertrip]

So what I'm getting from this is that the gameplay of Shepard being indoctrinated was scapped. Not the idea or plotpoint of it.

Thoughts?

That is EXACTLY what they're saying. It implies that Shepard is/was indocrinated- but losing control of your character is never really that much fun, and it's frustrating. If anything, this strengthens the indoctrination theory furthermore, and makes it more of a fact then it already is.

[ConradsLaces]

So...does this mean we kept our ability to control Shep, but the other aspects are still in there? i.e. Indoctrination theory or near death experience/mental battle?

Damn..reminds me of Lathe of Heaven.

[pavi132]

I was focused on the part that said 'One night walters scribbled down some thought on various ways the game could end with the line "Lots of speculation for Everyone!" at the bottom of the page.'

It sounds completely ridiculous.

[ConradsLaces]

Fingertrip wrote...

So what I'm getting from this is that the gameplay of Shepard being indoctrinated was scapped. Not the idea or plotpoint of it.

Thoughts?

That is EXACTLY what they're saying. It implies that Shepard is/was indocrinated- but losing control of your character is never really that much fun, and it's frustrating. If anything, this strengthens the indoctrination theory furthermore, and makes it more of a fact then it already is.

+1

I really enjoy the inner mental battle vs indoctrination theory... and that every past MArauder Shields took place in his mind, and the gameplay represents the player making the decisions inside Shep's noodle...

[GOODKyle]

Fingertrip wrote...

So what I'm getting from this is that the gameplay of Shepard being indoctrinated was scapped. Not the idea or plotpoint of it.

Thoughts?

That is EXACTLY what they're saying. It implies that Shepard is/was indocrinated- but losing control of your character is never really that much fun, and it's frustrating. If anything, this strengthens the indoctrination theory furthermore, and makes it more of a fact then it already is.

I don't know if it "confirms" anything but it proves that they have the indoc theory in their heads. 

[Fingertrip]

They did not like the lose control of Shepard part, not the being under Reaper control. It's pretty evident that it's Indoctrination that's happening Shepard at the end. Tweets of tease and etc has been pointing out to it for quite a few days now, that I thought people would have catched it by now.

I mean, heck- I recall someone on Bioware mentioning that the 6th Sense and Shutter Island are quite good movies, in reference to the ending.If you've seen those movies, you're pretty set on what's going on.

[GOODKyle]

Fingertrip wrote...

They did not like the lose control of Shepard part, not the being under Reaper control. It's pretty evident that it's Indoctrination that's happening Shepard at the end. Tweets of tease and etc has been pointing out to it for quite a few days now, that I thought people would have catched it by now.

I mean, heck- I recall someone on Bioware mentioning that the 6th Sense and Shutter Island are quite good movies, in reference to the ending.If you've seen those movies, you're pretty set on what's going on.

Exactly, I made another video on those tweets alone. I wonder if people just like being on the other side of the fence or just can't comprehend the crap ending and how crappy it was at face value. 

[III_wAR]

'One night walters scribbled down some thought on various ways the game could end with the line "Lots of speculation for Everyone!"

Awesome, the ending came from chicken scratch on a napkin.

[JamesGray33]

You guys and others have convinced me. i still think it's messed up to charge for the real ending. They could have at least made the cutscenes more convincing...

The last decision was pretty hard for me, but if the Reapers had never told me that the destroy option would kill the geth and EDI, I would have chose it. I wanted to prove synthetics and organics could live in peace; I guess the reapers successfully used that against me. Wow. Mind *uck

[tommythetomcat]

III_wAR wrote...

'One night walters scribbled down some thought on various ways the game could end with the line "Lots of speculation for Everyone!"

Awesome, the ending came from chicken scratch on a napkin.

It's art bro, you can't mess with art.

[Reign762]

Atleast knowing your indoctrinated was a better option. Of course I'd be pissed I had no control over it. Unless getting indoctrinated was my own fault through choices I made.

[Uezurii]

pavi132 wrote...

I was focused on the part that said 'One night walters scribbled down some thought on various ways the game could end with the line "Lots of speculation for Everyone!" at the bottom of the page.'

It sounds completely ridiculous.

Untill the next day where he works these ideas out properly. It's how it goes.

[Doomhams]

JamesGray33 wrote...

You guys and others have convinced me. i still think it's messed up to charge for the real ending. They could have at least made the cutscenes more convincing...

The last decision was pretty hard for me, but if the Reapers had never told me that the destroy option would kill the geth and EDI, I would have chose it. I wanted to prove synthetics and organics could live in peace; I guess the reapers successfully used that against me. Wow. Mind *uck

We don't necessarilly have to pay for it. That part is yet to be revealed.

I will say though, that there is just enough evidence of the theory to make it plausible, but just not enough to really say one way or another.

If the theory does turn out to be true, it will definitely be the ballsiest move ever by a company.

[tommythetomcat]

Uezurii wrote...

pavi132 wrote...

I was focused on the part that said 'One night walters scribbled down some thought on various ways the game could end with the line "Lots of speculation for Everyone!" at the bottom of the page.'

It sounds completely ridiculous.

Untill the next day where he works these ideas out properly. It's how it goes.

Yeah he seemed to work it out real nice in the final product.

[GOODKyle]

JamesGray33 wrote...

You guys and others have convinced me. i still think it's messed up to charge for the real ending. They could have at least made the cutscenes more convincing...

The last decision was pretty hard for me, but if the Reapers had never told me that the destroy option would kill the geth and EDI, I would have chose it. I wanted to prove synthetics and organics could live in peace; I guess the reapers successfully used that against me. Wow. Mind *uck

Don't feel bad. Fallout 3 and Prince of Persia charged for "real" endings. It looks like FF13-2 will as well. 

[Doomhams]

Reign762 wrote...

Atleast knowing your indoctrinated was a better option. Of course I'd be pissed I had no control over it. Unless getting indoctrinated was my own fault through choices I made.

Yeah, but to truly be indcoctrinated you can't be aware of it. I think that if we really are being indoctrinated or whatever, they did a great job of it. I had no idea I was being manipulated until I came here and read the theory.

[Noatz]

I hate to do this but...

It could just mean they set it out as an indoctrination ending with all the evidence people have pointed out about the last sequence, and then just scrapped that idea when they couldn't implement the gameplay. However, they didn't remove the rest of what we consider evidence for indoc theory from the sequence.

So in the end what we're left with is something that looks like an indoctrination sequence but isn't.

Modifié par Noatz, 16 mars 2012 - 01:48 .

[Amagoi]

III_wAR wrote...

'One night walters scribbled down some thought on various ways the game could end with the line "Lots of speculation for Everyone!"

Awesome, the ending came from chicken scratch on a napkin.

Mark my words, after this "Lots of speculation for everyone!" is going to become a meme for lazy writing. And I'll use the crap out of it too.

[Doomhams]

Noatz wrote...

I hate to do this but...

It could just mean they set it as an indoctrination ending with all the evidence people have pointed out about the last sequence, and then just scrapped that idea when they couldn't implement the gameplay. However, they didn't remove the rest of what we consider evidence for indoc theory from the sequence.

So in the end what we're left with is something that looks like an indoctrination sequence but isn't.

that would be truly cruel

[Reign762]

Doomhams wrote...

Reign762 wrote...

Atleast knowing your indoctrinated was a better option. Of course I'd be pissed I had no control over it. Unless getting indoctrinated was my own fault through choices I made.

Yeah, but to truly be indcoctrinated you can't be aware of it. I think that if we really are being indoctrinated or whatever, they did a great job of it. I had no idea I was being manipulated until I came here and read the theory.

That's the whole point again.  If we were indoctrinated due to choices we had made and were unaware it would be fine.  If I could go back and change choice X to choice Y and Choice B to choice A and avoid it, then its fine.  The fact that even if they went that route it would have been the same choice never mattered issue we have now.

[Uezurii]

tommythetomcat wrote...

Uezurii wrote...

pavi132 wrote...

I was focused on the part that said 'One night walters scribbled down some thought on various ways the game could end with the line "Lots of speculation for Everyone!" at the bottom of the page.'

It sounds completely ridiculous.

Untill the next day where he works these ideas out properly. It's how it goes.

Yeah he seemed to work it out real nice in the final product.

True, unless they do have a plan.