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My two cents on the ending and why it should stay as it is.


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#1
Ryokun1989

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First off, I was getting sick of reading all the negative feedback and dumb suggestions for the so called "true" ending that should have been made or what not.
Second, fans don't "own" the game's content at all, they are entitled to hating whatever they want but players who think media are created to solely do what the fans want are dead wrong. That would just deliver plain old boring and forgettable work, becouse it will not surprise you in unpleasant ways which good stories need to do to stay interesting.
Third, I just wanted to post a different view on the ending to counter all the hatred, becouse I thought the ending was brilliant.

A good ending to a story isn't one that makes sense in every way and wraps up with everybody walking away happy. For me a good ending is one that makes you think and ask yourself: What did I see just now? This ending represents the essence of what the Mass Effect series is about in one last major choice. It blurs the lines of order and chaos, black and white, to convey its message of needed balance. It makes the story a shade of grey.

Storywise Bioware needed for it to be a bit vague after the reaper hit. By making it so that we do not know whether Shepard is alive, dead or harvested by the reapers, it lets us as players accept that Shepard is no longer Shepard. (some people call this "a dream" but I think it is more like a metaphysical reality) By now every character that shows up stands for a metaphor, with Shepard being the metaphor that stands for humanity, that has to make its choice regarding its own future. The illusive man is the metaphor that stand for renegade that needs order to accomplish its plans. And anderson represents paragon that needs chaos to accomplish its plans. The lines are blurred now but one thing is obvious, inevitably chaos will need order and order will need chaos. Making synergy, which provides the balance between both, humanities next (and final?) step in evolution.

There are three ways in which you can determine the fate of humanity and for all of them it is clear what they represent. One of the endings even ends with Shepard not dying. Yes the Mass Effect universe as we know it is at an end in all three endings, but that is not the choice we were asked to make.
The real choice here is the way in which you as a player choose to advance humanity, and all three options have vastly different consequences. It is as if people that hate this ending so much expect the choice to have major influence on how the end video looks, but most commenters don't even think for one second what theoretically the different endings mean for us as a species. It is a shame that so many people fail to reckognize that the lack of exposition is what makes the ending so good, this is what lets the players think about: What will happen now? What will come of humanity this way? 

I really don't get the hatred for the ending. By literary standards it is so far ahead of other games. It is short, powerfull, wraps up the entire ME universe in one choice. And it left stuff to the immagination, which is something a lot of writers tend to forget. Sure you had your own ending in mind, but do people really want it to end on a bland happy go lucky note? Bioware wants us to think about this ending and what it meant, they said so themselves, and they achieved it.

I just really hope they don't change the ending, a lot of great stories have vague endings and sometimes it makes them all the better for it. To me, less (explanation) means more, with Mass Effect this is totally the case. The game has a thousand varriables and instead of trying to weigh them all in (which would have never worked) the writers chose to resort to our immagination which is, as most creative writers know, the best tool you have as a writer. Also, everything that happened after the big choice makes the choice less important. Bioware's writers cut everything to make the ending to the point and by doing so prevented it from becoming convoluted. This has to be praised, becouse writers writing within the Sci-fi genre and even within the Mass Effect universe itself have a risk to walk into this trap.

Some of the best stories in history enraged their audiences when first published. I think in retrospect the Mass Effect series will be seen as the first game that uplifted the medium to a digital work of literature. Good work writers at bioware, I am trully inspired by what you have accomplished with the medium.

Signed,

A fellow game designer

Modifié par Ryokun1989, 16 mars 2012 - 01:55 .


#2
VegaMendoza

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"I really don't get the hatred for the ending. By literary standards it is so far ahead of other games. It is short, powerfull, wraps up the entire ME universe in one choice."


So far ahead that it went back in time to year 2000 and somehow became the *exact* same ending as Deus Ex?

Modifié par VegaMendoza, 16 mars 2012 - 01:41 .


#3
Esquin

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You're a fool and if you really are a game designer I hope your consumers don't have to suffer through things as pointless as the mass effect 3 ending.

The Mass Effect 3 ending disregards your choices, ignores major themes, and creates new questions in the place of answers. There are numerous topics pointing out why your entire opinion is wrong. And yes an opinion can be wrong. If you can't see why you're wrong then I feel sorry for you.

#4
kramerfan86

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The future of entertainment is going to be rather bleak indeed if this idea of "dont actually finish your stories just be vague and let the audience think about it" really catches on.

#5
Traderjoeeeee

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VegaMendoza wrote...

"I really don't get the hatred for the ending. By literary standards it is so far ahead of other games. It is short, powerfull, wraps up the entire ME universe in one choice."


So far ahead that it went back in time to year 2000 and somehow became the *exact* same ending as Deus Ex?



#6
crimzontearz

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no thanks

#7
Rulycar

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In the words of Shepard talking to Star-ghost-child:
... "You're never going to understand"

#8
Texhnolyze101

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I don't care about what bioware "wants" us to think they promised closer and failed to give us that and the endings need to be changed and if they don't than i hope EA drops bioware and makes them go the way the other company's they destroyed go as i rather see bioware fall than continue with the way there going.

#9
Sam Anders

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Yeah no

The only way it's powerful or deep is the way it allows people that love the games to feel as if they had their heart ripped out by an extraordinarily poorly done ending.

#10
Uezurii

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So you find it good story telling and a good ending, when you're confused and wondering what you have just seen? Yes I stopped at that bit with reading... I just dont have the words.

#11
mawdudi

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too much debatable in your opinion

#12
mcsupersport

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Please don't design games with that take on it, I will hate them forever.

NO, I will not spend the time telling you all the areas the ending fails, that has been done in so many other threads, so just go read them and find out why.

Glad you liked the endings, but can't agree with you, because to me those endings are either a) stupid, or B) just so incomplete for a series that involved the player like ME did and evolved characters like ME did.

#13
Sywen

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kramerfan86 wrote...

The future of entertainment is going to be rather bleak indeed if this idea of "dont actually finish your stories just be vague and let the audience think about it" really catches on.


I'm glad I'm thining about finding a new hobby.  Real life is bleak enough.

#14
kramerfan86

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Sywen wrote...

kramerfan86 wrote...

The future of entertainment is going to be rather bleak indeed if this idea of "dont actually finish your stories just be vague and let the audience think about it" really catches on.


I'm glad I'm thining about finding a new hobby.  Real life is bleak enough.

Its just laziness in the disguise of artistry.  Rather than conclude their stories themelves they toss the responsibiliy onto the audience to do so.  That isnt clever or deep, its telling other people to do their job for them by taking the hardest and in many cases the most important of the job and not doing it.   I mean I have an imagination, Ive headconned my own ending, but when a job is well done I shouldnt have to do that.

Modifié par kramerfan86, 16 mars 2012 - 02:00 .


#15
cachx

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 I agree with the OP. Storytelling should not be crowdsourced or dictated by votes.

#16
kramerfan86

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cachx wrote...

 I agree with the OP. Storytelling should not be crowdsourced or dictated by votes.

But by intentionally being vague they are forcing the ending to be crowdsourced.

#17
KorPhaeron

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cachx wrote...

 I agree with the OP. Storytelling should not be crowdsourced or dictated by votes.


No,

Storytelling should have logic, common sense, and closure.

Modifié par KorPhaeron, 16 mars 2012 - 02:09 .


#18
zarnk567

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KorPhaeron wrote...

cachx wrote...

 I agree with the OP. Storytelling should not be crowdsourced or dictated by votes.


No storytelling should have logic, common sense, and closure.





#19
Dragoonlordz

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Esquin wrote...

You're a fool and if you really are a game designer I hope your consumers don't have to suffer through things as pointless as the mass effect 3 ending.

The Mass Effect 3 ending disregards your choices, ignores major themes, and creates new questions in the place of answers. There are numerous topics pointing out why your entire opinion is wrong. And yes an opinion can be wrong. If you can't see why you're wrong then I feel sorry for you.


Wow very mature, you need to stop belittling people as all your doing is damaging what credibility the side who dislike the endings have. If you cannot act in a more mature manner then don't expect people to respect your views.

#20
Dragoonlordz

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cachx wrote...

 I agree with the OP. Storytelling should not be crowdsourced or dictated by votes.


It's quite funny really a vast amount of people complained about when a previous gameplay element was put up for fans to decide (FemShep voting) and I remember very well they complained especially about leaving it up to the fanbase at the time saying Bioware should not listen to the fans and just make what they wanted... Now they want that power to decide back. There are many ironic elements to this debate so far.

#21
Ryokun1989

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mcsupersport wrote...

Please don't design games with that take on it, I will hate them forever.

NO, I will not spend the time telling you all the areas the ending fails, that has been done in so many other threads, so just go read them and find out why.

Glad you liked the endings, but can't agree with you, because to me those endings are either a) stupid, or B) just so incomplete for a series that involved the player like ME did and evolved characters like ME did.


I have read them, and I don't agree with most of them. Some of them are valid, and yes some things are vague to say the least. But there is a stroke of brilliance to it that most commenters fail to see. It mannages to pull of an ending that is confusing yet, when you look carefully, is extremely well planned and thought out. Every little thing that seems missing is done on purpose and adds a layer to it for the player to think about. I think the ending should not be dismissed as "wrong" becouse it just isn't. Nobodies opinion but the writers their opinion will change that.

It could have ended like Star Wars or LotR, but instead the writers chose to do it different. And yeah to the naked eye it looks like Deus-Ex, but with the Mass Effect universe as a context it has an entirely different meaning. Still, if it would have ended different there would have been thousands of other things it would probably look like. No story is truly orriginal, every structure comes from a field of refference from past work that is mixed up with ellements from other stories. You can't come up with things you haven't taken inspiration from in some form or way. 

#22
KorPhaeron

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Ryokun1989 wrote...

First off, I was getting sick of reading all the negative feedback and dumb suggestions for the so called "true" ending that should have been made or what not.
Second, fans don't "own" the game's content at all, they are entitled to hating whatever they want but players who think media are created to solely do what the fans want are dead wrong. That would just deliver plain old boring and forgettable work, becouse it will not surprise you in unpleasant ways which good stories need to do to stay interesting.
Third, I just wanted to post a different view on the ending to counter all the hatred, becouse I thought the ending was brilliant.

A good ending to a story isn't one that makes sense in every way and wraps up with everybody walking away happy. For me a good ending is one that makes you think and ask yourself: What did I see just now? This ending represents the essence of what the Mass Effect series is about in one last major choice. It blurs the lines of order and chaos, black and white, to convey its message of needed balance. It makes the story a shade of grey.

Storywise Bioware needed for it to be a bit vague after the reaper hit. By making it so that we do not know whether Shepard is alive, dead or harvested by the reapers, it lets us as players accept that Shepard is no longer Shepard. (some people call this "a dream" but I think it is more like a metaphysical reality) By now every character that shows up stands for a metaphor, with Shepard being the metaphor that stands for humanity, that has to make its choice regarding its own future. The illusive man is the metaphor that stand for renegade that needs order to accomplish its plans. And anderson represents paragon that needs chaos to accomplish its plans. The lines are blurred now but one thing is obvious, inevitably chaos will need order and order will need chaos. Making synergy, which provides the balance between both, humanities next (and final?) step in evolution.

There are three ways in which you can determine the fate of humanity and for all of them it is clear what they represent. One of the endings even ends with Shepard not dying. Yes the Mass Effect universe as we know it is at an end in all three endings, but that is not the choice we were asked to make.
The real choice here is the way in which you as a player choose to advance humanity, and all three options have vastly different consequences. It is as if people that hate this ending so much expect the choice to have major influence on how the end video looks, but most commenters don't even think for one second what theoretically the different endings mean for us as a species. It is a shame that so many people fail to reckognize that the lack of exposition is what makes the ending so good, this is what lets the players think about: What will happen now? What will come of humanity this way? 

I really don't get the hatred for the ending. By literary standards it is so far ahead of other games. It is short, powerfull, wraps up the entire ME universe in one choice. And it left stuff to the immagination, which is something a lot of writers tend to forget. Sure you had your own ending in mind, but do people really want it to end on a bland happy go lucky note? Bioware wants us to think about this ending and what it meant, they said so themselves, and they achieved it.

I just really hope they don't change the ending, a lot of great stories have vague endings and sometimes it makes them all the better for it. To me, less (explanation) means more, with Mass Effect this is totally the case. The game has a thousand varriables and instead of trying to weigh them all in (which would have never worked) the writers chose to resort to our immagination which is, as most creative writers know, the best tool you have as a writer. Also, everything that happened after the big choice makes the choice less important. Bioware's writers cut everything to make the ending to the point and by doing so prevented it from becoming convoluted. This has to be praised, becouse writers writing within the Sci-fi genre and even within the Mass Effect universe itself have a risk to walk into this trap.

Some of the best stories in history enraged their audiences when first published. I think in retrospect the Mass Effect series will be seen as the first game that uplifted the medium to a digital work of literature. Good work writers at bioware, I am trully inspired by what you have accomplished with the medium.

Signed,

A fellow game designer


errr, are you err, I really dont know what to say,:blink: the whole thing is so stupid, that im haveing trouble getting my thoughts in order

Its like with proffesional writers and screenwriters tearing the story apart, i just dont know where to start on this,:huh: its not that 1 or 2 points are off, the whole thing is idiotic:sick:

#23
Dridengx

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Esquin wrote...

You're a fool and if you really are a game designer.


So, if he wasn't a game designer he wouldn't be a fool? have something against game designers do we?

#24
Mr. Big Pimpin

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Ryokun1989 wrote...

For me a good ending is one that makes you think and ask yourself: What did I see just now?

Well, it certainly did that. I think I'm still asking that question.

#25
Dragoonlordz

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Dridengx wrote...

Esquin wrote...

You're a fool and if you really are a game designer.


So, if he wasn't a game designer he wouldn't be a fool? have something against game designers do we?


I think he has something against anyone who says something positive about the endings from what I have read on multiple threads.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 16 mars 2012 - 02:10 .