120 réponses à ce sujet

[mcsupersport]

Oh, and about the Synthesis, it doesn't even solve the problem the ReaperGodChild said was the issue of Synthetics rebelling against their creator since they are different....

Well if the new normal hybrid creates more synthetics after the magic wave, then they would be pure synthetics and thus would by the RGC's logic rebel against their creators who were not "pure" and thus wipe everyone out....so not only is it magic to do what it says, it doesn't even work in the end to do what it was proposed to do.

[OhBeavers]

The philosphical debate at the end of the game is not presented as the main themes of the series and invalidates what were considered the main themes. "Free will" is destroyed by an ending that represents "pre-destination" which is a horrible and archaic belief that invalidates all actions on Earth or you could simply choose destroy and wipe out all artificial life which you have proven with EDI can develop free will and the capability to feel emotion. Of course, in every ending unity amongst species is destroyed that we worked so hard to create (unless you count those stranded on Earth who will likely all starved to death). I get that our choices "maybe" preserve life after a long dark age and it's an interesting ending in that regard, but it isn't a good conclusion for Mass Effect; it has far too many problems and negatives that out-weigh it's potential artistic merit, which others have stated is basically the ending to Deus-Ex.

[Ryokun1989]

Harthouse wrote...

Ryokun1989 wrote...

I can say one thing, ignoring the bible's (the most popular book in history) story constructs would have made a game like ME impossible. The same goes for ignoring the greek dramas, the nordic folklore or the roman epics. 

If this is a work of art, and Bioware are the artists, then what with Bioware constantly trumpetting that they want fan input, Bioware has effectively created a client-patron relationship. 
TL;DR :  Bioware asking for fan input means that we do have a say in their products, whether they are considered art (in which case we are patrons) or products (in which case we are consumers whose opinions have been solicited).

I am not saying they should not listen, I say they should not be forced to listen. It is their choice and their story to tell. That is hard to understand since gamedesign is full of ways with which ownership of the fans is suggested. But see the game as a tool and the fans as users of that tool. Fans can complain about functions of this tool but it doesn't make them owners of it, it makes them users. And thus bioware doesn't have to listen to the "it's supposed to be my story" argument. They can, but nothing is promissed, from a designers point of view that is just suggestion. Bioware say themselves they are storytellers, they don't make sandbox games, they have a clear way in which the trees of their stories branch and there is nothing the player can do about it. And if games are art then this issue is like asking jackson ****** to make more figurative work.

[ColloquialAnachron]

Ryokun1989 wrote...

They can, but nothing is promissed, from a designers point of view that is just suggestion. Bioware say themselves they are storytellers, they don't make sandbox games, they have a clear way in which the trees of their stories branch and there is nothing the player can do about it. And if games are art then this issue is like asking jackson ****** to make more figurative work.

Point number 1:  I fully agree with you that they in no way have to listen, I am acting with the hope that they will.  Certainly I will be persistent and yes "hold the line" but if they don't change anything, that is fully their prerogative.  

Point Number 2:  I think you are either giving Bioware too much credit or ****** too little.  I'm not sure which;)

[Ryokun1989]

Harthouse wrote...

Ryokun1989 wrote...

They can, but nothing is promissed, from a designers point of view that is just suggestion. Bioware say themselves they are storytellers, they don't make sandbox games, they have a clear way in which the trees of their stories branch and there is nothing the player can do about it. And if games are art then this issue is like asking jackson ****** to make more figurative work.

Point number 1:  I fully agree with you that they in no way have to listen, I am acting with the hope that they will.  Certainly I will be persistent and yes "hold the line" but if they don't change anything, that is fully their prerogative.  

Point Number 2:  I think you are either giving Bioware too much credit or ****** too little.  I'm not sure which;)

Glad we agree on point one then.

And point two, well when it's about interactive narrative design bioware comes to great hights for their time. But seeing videogames are a young medium they are not on the same level as ****** was. Therefor the medium is still too new I guess. ****** built on and broke down the conventions of the masters before him, bioware is doing the same, but on relatively new territory.

[In Exile]

VegaMendoza wrote...
So far ahead that it went back in time to year 2000 and somehow became the *exact* same ending as Deus Ex?

That's really unfair to Deus Ex. That was a game (and ending) where you could see the ending coming. The Majestic 12, the Iluminati, all of that was built up to. The AI bit was somewhat out of left field, but at the very least you got notice of that somewhat ahead of time.

[suusuuu]

VegaMendoza wrote...

"I really don't get the hatred for the ending. By literary standards it is so far ahead of other games. It is short, powerfull, wraps up the entire ME universe in one choice."

So far ahead that it went back in time to year 2000 and somehow became the *exact* same ending as Deus Ex?

[connordavisj]

I paid them $80 for a conclusion. They'd damn well better give it to me.

[suusuuu]

BTW why is a short ending to a 100+ hour saga a good thing? please elaborate.
Bayonetta's ending with all of the minigames at the end and the bonuses after the credits grants you an additional 30 minutes of content. And it's a standalone product and not a conclusion to a trilogy. 

Modifié par suusuuu, 16 mars 2012 - 03:45 .

[Ryokun1989]

connordavisj wrote...

I paid them $80 for a conclusion. They'd damn well better give it to me.

The writers gave you six years of hard work.

Really we all have an opinion but please voice them, just complaining doesn't do anything to convince me. 

[PaulSX]

Seeing how most people hate the endings, they should add a dlc called Mass Effect:Epilogue to the ME3 at least otherwise this game really fails to fulfill its promises and purpose.

[Ryokun1989]

suusuuu wrote...

BTW why is a short ending to a 100+ hour saga a good thing? please elaborate.
Bayonetta's ending with all of the minigames at the end and the bonuses after the credits grants you an additional 30 minutes of content. And it's a standalone product and not a conclusion to a trilogy. 

What I said, long endings become convoluted and miss the point more often than not. LotR ending was to long and it is famed for it being too long. Long endings lose momentum. What could the rest of the characters have added to the ending anyway? What could this ending benefit from more stuff that doesn't matter and might as well be irrelevant to the final choice. 
I believe it would just amount to fanservice, and fanservice is useless.  

[suusuuu]

Ryokun1989 wrote...

The writers gave you six years of hard work.

Actually, no. Mass Effect 3 was in developement for three years at best. None of this money goes to people who worked on the previous games and left, were laid-off or moved to work on different games. 

Modifié par suusuuu, 16 mars 2012 - 03:55 .

[Ryokun1989]

suntzuxi wrote...

Seeing how most people hate the endings, they should add a dlc called Mass Effect:Epilogue to the ME3 at least otherwise this game really fails to fulfill its promises and purpose.

That is not necessarily true, most people who hate the ending just care to complain. 
It is proven and a logical fact that many who are fine with things don't have a reason to voice that.
I have an interest in this type of stories, the industry is my work, my life. 
Though I know many who loved the ending, including two of my friends who also played the game.

[Mystical_Gaming]

OP, I think you missed a lot of why everyone is upset. Some of us are OK with the bleak ending, even if they are pretty depressing. But the game has no CLOSURE. Some of us want closure.

Shadow of the Colossus had a depressing ending for the most part. If you've played this game you'd know what I mean. You, the player, basically loses in the end and is tricked ... kinda like how you are tricked in the ending of ME3 with that starkid. Only difference between Shadow and ME3 is in shadow after the sad events in the end and during the credits they have a nice epilogue to wrap things up and give the player peace with closure. ME3 just cuts off with so many unanswered thins it makes you feel lonely and confused.

How anyone could be OK with the end of ME3 I have no clue. Don't you feel lonely about it? It just ends so fast with no rhyme or reason. As an RPG ME3 should have a nice epilogue. ME1 and ME2 had dialogue after the big event so why can't mE3? Why must we get some cutscenes then just have it end? Even Call of Duty Modern Warfare 3 a cookie cutter lookalike of MW2 and CoD4 had a more satisfying ending than ME3 ...

[Ryokun1989]

suusuuu wrote...

Ryokun1989 wrote...

The writers gave you six years of hard work.

Actually, no. Mass Effect 3 was in developement for three years at best. None of this money goes to people who worked on the previous games and left, were laid-off or moved to work on different games. 

There are enough people who worked through the entire franchise. The series that is mass effect is a joint effort of many people. But come on 80 dollars for a game that is brilliant in many aspects but just has a stupid ending should not ammount to omg now everything sucks. Thats just an immature reaction, like saying you got a million dollar house but it totally sucks becouse it doesn't have an extra garage. I mean, it's just acting spoiled.

Modifié par Ryokun1989, 16 mars 2012 - 04:02 .

[johnnybravo2]

i strongly disagree with ryokun1989.
bioware promised us that are choices matter. they did not deliver.

HOLD THE LINE!

[Ryokun1989]

Mystical_Gaming wrote...

OP, I think you missed a lot of why everyone is upset. Some of us are OK with the bleak ending, even if they are pretty depressing. But the game has no CLOSURE. Some of us want closure.

Shadow of the Colossus had a depressing ending for the most part. If you've played this game you'd know what I mean. You, the player, basically loses in the end and is tricked ... kinda like how you are tricked in the ending of ME3 with that starkid. Only difference between Shadow and ME3 is in shadow after the sad events in the end and during the credits they have a nice epilogue to wrap things up and give the player peace with closure. ME3 just cuts off with so many unanswered thins it makes you feel lonely and confused.

How anyone could be OK with the end of ME3 I have no clue. Don't you feel lonely about it? It just ends so fast with no rhyme or reason. As an RPG ME3 should have a nice epilogue. ME1 and ME2 had dialogue after the big event so why can't mE3? Why must we get some cutscenes then just have it end? Even Call of Duty Modern Warfare 3 a cookie cutter lookalike of MW2 and CoD4 had a more satisfying ending than ME3 ...

Shadow was great, and it had a simple yet powerfull ending. And if you liked that game then you should understand that not answering all the questions is not a bad thing. SotC has a lot of unanswered questions. ME3 has a closed ending, the reaper threat is over, the quarian/geth conflict is resolved, the genophage conflict is resolved, the cerberus conflict resolved, now the future of humanity is changed and the mass effect relays destroyed. What comes next is not important, what comes next is another story.

[johnnybravo2]

i strongly disagree with ryokun1989.
bioware promised us that are choices matter. they did not deliver.

HOLD THE LINE!

[Tequila Man]

http://social.biowar...5/index/9851623

[Narayan23]

It's not acting spoiled how can the game industry improve if we let them just take our money and then sit silent when I have a complaint about what I payed for.
Maybe they will learn from it. Hire better writers and project leads who are capabale of handling their resources and writing sensical conclusions.

[suusuuu]

Dear lord, why do you go on defending this ending when even the fact that the cutscenes were so cheaply made, that you see only three friends of shepard in the flashback and the movies are so ridiculously low resolution that everything from a technical standpoint screams "BAD QUALITY". If they couldn't make a different cutscene for each ending in a triple A title instead of recoloring it it's hard for me to believe the entire ending had some actual work and thought put into it.

[Ryokun1989]

johnnybravo2 wrote...

i strongly disagree with ryokun1989.
bioware promised us that are choices matter. they did not deliver.

HOLD THE LINE!

So what! I don't care if you disagree, I care why you disagree, why don't soms of you get that?

[OblivionDawn]

I'm so glad that there are so few people grasping for logic to support the endings.

Most of us see the obvious truth, the endings were plot-hole riddled crap, and it seems Bioware is starting to understand that.

[Ryokun1989]

Narayan23 wrote...

It's not acting spoiled how can the game industry improve if we let them just take our money and then sit silent when I have a complaint about what I payed for.
Maybe they will learn from it. Hire better writers and project leads who are capabale of handling their resources and writing sensical conclusions.

Well complain whatever you like but make your opinion count, not just some random attack, say why you don't like it. You are talking about content of the game, an argument about money regarding content is just useless. I don't care if I paid a million bucks and made a crapy ending, we should judge it on its merrits of being a bad ending not that it cost a million.