217 réponses à ce sujet

[tekkaman fear]

daigakuinsei wrote...

I'd pay for a better ending.

^This...

[bucyrus5000]

IrishRents wrote...

SandTrout wrote...

IrishRents wrote...

bucyrus5000 wrote...

wow, none of you read either of my posts. I think you guys missed my point. Regardless of whether or not we are willing to pay for it or are entitled to it, a new ending would be free, or else it is fraud.

People who buy the game after an Ending DLC will expect a complete game for their purchase. To find out they have to buy the ending will cause a bigger outrage than this current debacle.

It wouldn't be fraud. This is why people call the line holders melodramatic.

Actually, no, we're not.

A poor choice of words, indeed. But calling that fraud is certainly something I would classify under melodrama.

As I said, I would be willing to pay for the DLC. I would be content and happy if it made sense and fullfilled BW's promises. The community would rage. The gaming watchdogs on YouTube will call for lynchings, and I believe States Attorneys will try to prosecute BW. Simply because selling an incomplete media and charging for the ending is considered unethical. Maybe my appraisal of our society is overly melodramatic, but that is what I believe would happen.

[IrishRents]

SandTrout wrote...

IrishRents wrote...

No, you see what I and few others here comprehend is that BioWare will have no motivation to make a new ending if the majority of the people asking for one, also say they will not pay for it.

What I and my ilk (the no way pay people) comprehend is that if BioWare fails to provide this for free, they will loose all future business from a fairly large number of people due to the loss of trust in them. They can sell a few $5-10 DLC now, maybe even a lot of them, but they will definitely not see the same numbers of $60 sales for any game they create from here on out. Even of those that will still buy BioWare products, how many will still pre-order or buy extras like collectors editions and artbooks? Many will simply wait until the next BioWare game is only $10-20 before the purchase it. Failing to give a proper ending for free seems likely to cost them more than giving it will.

And if they make no change to the endings, will you continue to purchase their products then? As a fan of their work, you should be willing to compromise, just as they will, to get what you want.

[jb1983]

 Apply this logic to anything else in the consumer world:

* You go to a restaurant where you order a 12oz steak well done. You pay and wait for the steak. When it comes out, it's hardly even cooked and obviously not finished. You demand a new steak and they fight you on it, and then charge you for a new steak. Are you saying that the restaurant doesn't owe you a new steak? If so, how long do you think that restaurant will stay in business?

* You go shopping for a car. You purchase the car under the auspices that it's complete. After purchasing the car, you discover that the key is missing. You ask for the key and they inform you that it'll cost extra money to get the key. Don't they owe you the key? How long will they stay in business?

* You go shopping for music. You buy a cd and find out later that it's missing the last three songs, even though the artist said they'd be on there. You're then informed that you have to pay for the last three songs. How does that work out?

In every single scenario I can come up with, the company could be sued for bait and switch, false advertising, or at the very least be reported to the BBB. Yet, because this is a game from a company people like, everyone wants to say, "AH, c'mon guys, just let 'em be! They're artists!"

First off, no, they're not artists. We can paint it however we want, but the fact is they're a business that happens to employee artists. Thus, first and foremost their responsibility is to sell a product and make money off that product. When your customer base (remember, only 2% in the current poll like the endings, meaning 98% have some sort of problem with them) hates your product, it's just stupid business strategy to ignore it or blow it off. 

Secondly, we actually are entitled to a proper ending because that's what we were promised. We were told we'd have multiple endings; we got space magic and lasers. We paid money for it, meaning we now have a say in the quality of the product. Thus, it's not an entitled attitude to think we're owed something; it's basic sense. We paid for it, so yes, we're owed it. That's how the world works - if you give money to someone for a product, they owe you that product because you worked for it. It's not "entitled" to say, "Wait a second, I paid for x and got y...I want x." That's wanting to follow how societies function. 

Third, to call people who have legitimate complaints about the ending "whiners" or to paint them in a negative light as people who are entitled makes absolutely no sense. Again, if someone requests their steak a certain way and it's not done that way, are they "entitled" if they ask for it to be done properly? If someone raises a legitimate complaint about a product, especially if the product has been paid for, how is that "entitled"? 

Finally, welcome to the world of commerce. This is how business works. If customers don't like the product, entitled or not, a company is under an obligation to fix the product (if they desire to stay in business). If you don't like people complaining about a product and want them to respect the artistic endevours of the writers, then have the writers make independent games and forgo the whole business aspect. Give away the games for free.

See how that goes. There's a reason starving artists are starving...

[AllergevKev]

SandTrout wrote...

IrishRents wrote...

No, you see what I and few others here comprehend is that BioWare will have no motivation to make a new ending if the majority of the people asking for one, also say they will not pay for it.

What I and my ilk (the no way pay people) comprehend is that if BioWare fails to provide this for free, they will loose all future business from a fairly large number of people due to the loss of trust in them. They can sell a few $5-10 DLC now, maybe even a lot of them, but they will definitely not see the same numbers of $60 sales for any game they create from here on out. Even of those that will still buy BioWare products, how many will still pre-order or buy extras like collectors editions and artbooks? Many will simply wait until the next BioWare game is only $10-20 before the purchase it. Failing to give a proper ending for free seems likely to cost them more than giving it will.

You are seriously overestimating the size of your "ilk." I can see where you come from in regards to the "We deserve it" POV, but as a business, Bioware would not lose money by losing around 500-1000 buyers. They'd make more money off the DLC than all your future purchases combined, no offense:lol:

[jb1983]

IrishRents wrote...

SandTrout wrote...

IrishRents wrote...

No, you see what I and few others here comprehend is that BioWare will have no motivation to make a new ending if the majority of the people asking for one, also say they will not pay for it.

What I and my ilk (the no way pay people) comprehend is that if BioWare fails to provide this for free, they will loose all future business from a fairly large number of people due to the loss of trust in them. They can sell a few $5-10 DLC now, maybe even a lot of them, but they will definitely not see the same numbers of $60 sales for any game they create from here on out. Even of those that will still buy BioWare products, how many will still pre-order or buy extras like collectors editions and artbooks? Many will simply wait until the next BioWare game is only $10-20 before the purchase it. Failing to give a proper ending for free seems likely to cost them more than giving it will.

And if they make no change to the endings, will you continue to purchase their products then? As a fan of their work, you should be willing to compromise, just as they will, to get what you want.

I'm one of those people who would pay for an ending. At the same time, a smart business practice for Bioware would be the following:

1) Take the temporary loss and release free DLC
2) Let everyone know that fan reactions had everything to do with this, and that they appreciate their fans
3) Include an option within the DLC to keep the original endings or use the DLC endings (if other things are included in the DLC)
4) Promise that from now on, they intend to set up a type of "focus group" for major plot developments, and that they'll draw this group from their fan network

This would help to erase the bad taste that Bioware has left in everyone's mouths for quite some time. While it would cause a drop in revenue at first, by restoring fan confidence it would actually help to increase it in the long run. People who won't buy DLC right now (such as myself), would happily purchase it later (after an ending DLC was released). Furthermore, I'd feel more confidence in purchasing further Bioware games and even preordering them. As it stands now, I simply don't trust the company to invest my time and money into their product. What should worry Bioware is that I'm not alone in that sentiment. 

But if they want immediate funds, they can charge for the DLC. This would probably solve quite a few immediate problems, but it could cause longterm problems. From a business standpoint, it'd be better to take the temporary loss than risk the longterm one.

[IrishRents]

jb1983 wrote...

 Apply this logic to anything else in the consumer world:

* You go to a restaurant where you order a 12oz steak well done. You pay and wait for the steak. When it comes out, it's hardly even cooked and obviously not finished. You demand a new steak and they fight you on it, and then charge you for a new steak. Are you saying that the restaurant doesn't owe you a new steak? If so, how long do you think that restaurant will stay in business?

* You go shopping for a car. You purchase the car under the auspices that it's complete. After purchasing the car, you discover that the key is missing. You ask for the key and they inform you that it'll cost extra money to get the key. Don't they owe you the key? How long will they stay in business?

* You go shopping for music. You buy a cd and find out later that it's missing the last three songs, even though the artist said they'd be on there. You're then informed that you have to pay for the last three songs. How does that work out?

In every single scenario I can come up with, the company could be sued for bait and switch, false advertising, or at the very least be reported to the BBB. Yet, because this is a game from a company people like, everyone wants to say, "AH, c'mon guys, just let 'em be! They're artists!"

First off, no, they're not artists. We can paint it however we want, but the fact is they're a business that happens to employee artists. Thus, first and foremost their responsibility is to sell a product and make money off that product. When your customer base (remember, only 2% in the current poll like the endings, meaning 98% have some sort of problem with them) hates your product, it's just stupid business strategy to ignore it or blow it off. 

Secondly, we actually are entitled to a proper ending because that's what we were promised. We were told we'd have multiple endings; we got space magic and lasers. We paid money for it, meaning we now have a say in the quality of the product. Thus, it's not an entitled attitude to think we're owed something; it's basic sense. We paid for it, so yes, we're owed it. That's how the world works - if you give money to someone for a product, they owe you that product because you worked for it. It's not "entitled" to say, "Wait a second, I paid for x and got y...I want x." That's wanting to follow how societies function. 

Third, to call people who have legitimate complaints about the ending "whiners" or to paint them in a negative light as people who are entitled makes absolutely no sense. Again, if someone requests their steak a certain way and it's not done that way, are they "entitled" if they ask for it to be done properly? If someone raises a legitimate complaint about a product, especially if the product has been paid for, how is that "entitled"? 

Finally, welcome to the world of commerce. This is how business works. If customers don't like the product, entitled or not, a company is under an obligation to fix the product (if they desire to stay in business). If you don't like people complaining about a product and want them to respect the artistic endevours of the writers, then have the writers make independent games and forgo the whole business aspect. Give away the games for free.

See how that goes. There's a reason starving artists are starving...

There was a miscommunication between the producers of the game, and what you understood. They never made a promise. And even if they did, we all got an ending. I didn't like it. You didn't like it. Difference is, I understand a company can mistep, and since I like their work I will pay them to make a new ending; you won't. Any change that could be released, won't be free to make so natuarally, would not be a free purchase. The sooner you understand, the sooner you can start to boycott their products.

Edit: Sorry Jb, I see your position is actually that you would pay for it. The point still stands for those who would refuse to.

Modifié par IrishRents, 16 mars 2012 - 03:25 .

[webrakefornobody]

AllergevKev wrote...

webrakefornobody wrote...

i don't even bother reading a customer's post in defense of a company, they can defend themselves very well - we certainly didn't deserve what we got. Mass Effect didn't deserve what it got.

You got a fantastic game with a crappy ending. If you actual read my post (well) you would see my argument against what you (and many others) are saying. 
Can someone actually say something other than this sort of thing!?

i've got a fantastic trilogy with a crappy ending, which isn't justt another 10 mins in the game. the end of a story is the adequate solution to all questions raised during the course of the narrative - at least it should be.
if the original star wars trilogy would have ended with the ewoks killing everybody i wouldn't have been into that stuff (until the prequels came out).
I did NOT deserve this ending. maybe there's people out there that really like and therefore deserve it (it is an entertainment product: whether you like it or not is the whole point of the product), but there's a big number of people that feel like me (& even more than that) and that put's BW in a spot where they can either choose to ignore us or care for us, their customers. the guys that pay their bills. we certainly DESERVE a more satisfying ending, but of course BW isn't forced to deliver. that's a big difference my friend.

[AllergevKev]

jb1983 wrote...

 Apply this logic to anything else in the consumer world:

* You go to a restaurant where you order a 12oz steak well done. You pay and wait for the steak. When it comes out, it's hardly even cooked and obviously not finished. You demand a new steak and they fight you on it, and then charge you for a new steak. Are you saying that the restaurant doesn't owe you a new steak? If so, how long do you think that restaurant will stay in business?

* You go shopping for a car. You purchase the car under the auspices that it's complete. After purchasing the car, you discover that the key is missing. You ask for the key and they inform you that it'll cost extra money to get the key. Don't they owe you the key? How long will they stay in business?

* You go shopping for music. You buy a cd and find out later that it's missing the last three songs, even though the artist said they'd be on there. You're then informed that you have to pay for the last three songs. How does that work out?

In every single scenario I can come up with, the company could be sued for bait and switch, false advertising, or at the very least be reported to the BBB. Yet, because this is a game from a company people like, everyone wants to say, "AH, c'mon guys, just let 'em be! They're artists!"

First off, no, they're not artists. We can paint it however we want, but the fact is they're a business that happens to employee artists. Thus, first and foremost their responsibility is to sell a product and make money off that product. When your customer base (remember, only 2% in the current poll like the endings, meaning 98% have some sort of problem with them) hates your product, it's just stupid business strategy to ignore it or blow it off. 

Secondly, we actually are entitled to a proper ending because that's what we were promised. We were told we'd have multiple endings; we got space magic and lasers. We paid money for it, meaning we now have a say in the quality of the product. Thus, it's not an entitled attitude to think we're owed something; it's basic sense. We paid for it, so yes, we're owed it. That's how the world works - if you give money to someone for a product, they owe you that product because you worked for it. It's not "entitled" to say, "Wait a second, I paid for x and got y...I want x." That's wanting to follow how societies function. 

Third, to call people who have legitimate complaints about the ending "whiners" or to paint them in a negative light as people who are entitled makes absolutely no sense. Again, if someone requests their steak a certain way and it's not done that way, are they "entitled" if they ask for it to be done properly? If someone raises a legitimate complaint about a product, especially if the product has been paid for, how is that "entitled"? 

Finally, welcome to the world of commerce. This is how business works. If customers don't like the product, entitled or not, a company is under an obligation to fix the product (if they desire to stay in business). If you don't like people complaining about a product and want them to respect the artistic endevours of the writers, then have the writers make independent games and forgo the whole business aspect. Give away the games for free.

See how that goes. There's a reason starving artists are starving...

Dear lord. It's not the product, it's the ending. Read my OP, it addresses pretty much everything you pointed out. 

Next time you see a crappy movie, demand the movie company to change it for free. See how that goes.
Now realize that in this game's case, it's not that the entire game is bad, just the last 5 minutes.

[avmf8]

AllergevKev wrote...

avmf8 wrote...

Here is the thing OP. No I am not going to flame you to ash just putting my spin on this.

I think there already is a better ending. That ending I don't think is the end but rather a ploy. A ploy EA games is pulling to start charging the customer for the end of games.

But they can't upright and do it that would cause massive backlash. Here they made a bad dreme like ending to make people think the game ended badly.

Then they wait for the backlash they were expecting they wanted this. So when people pettition for a ending they wait a while. Then when they are good and ready they release the actual end as paid for DLC then Bioware ends up as the hero.

If allot of people buy the ending DLC EA games will consider that a success and then that will become the norm. Just as it has been with DLC it started small and now they just keep pushing forward more and more.

We are not getting a new ending we are simply getting the ending the cut out so they could sell it. Before anyone says I am wrong all my other predictions about DLC have been right. From the very first DLC I said if people go for this DLC will become common place. Well look at that I was correct. Then they started upping the price of map packs I said there don't buy it DLC will cost more. I was correct there see a pattern how I have been right. Many have known this and I am sure people figured it out long before I did. Many have actually been saying this for years that the DLC problem is just going to get worse.

Well there it is the next step of DLC getting worse.

I'm sure you have a lot of evidence to back that up.

Not sure if that is sarcasm or not since sarcasm in text is hard. If it was sarcasm I do have proof of my claims of the DLC getting worse. I also have proof of that being a purposly bad ending. No way can anyone make an ending that bad. that is the worst ending I have seen for a game. Well at least for a game that is the conclusion to a trillogy. If you make the ending for the 3rd game of a trillogy aweful you take down the quality of the whole game series.

[AllergevKev]

bucyrus5000 wrote...

As I said, I would be willing to pay for the DLC. I would be content and happy if it made sense and fullfilled BW's promises. The community would rage. The gaming watchdogs on YouTube will call for lynchings, and I believe States Attorneys will try to prosecute BW. Simply because selling an incomplete media and charging for the ending is considered unethical. Maybe my appraisal of our society is overly melodramatic, but that is what I believe would happen.

State attorneys. Good one.

[Nostradamoose]

10:30 and on, this is what people should realise.

[jb1983]

AllergevKev wrote...

jb1983 wrote...

 Apply this logic to anything else in the consumer world:

* You go to a restaurant where you order a 12oz steak well done. You pay and wait for the steak. When it comes out, it's hardly even cooked and obviously not finished. You demand a new steak and they fight you on it, and then charge you for a new steak. Are you saying that the restaurant doesn't owe you a new steak? If so, how long do you think that restaurant will stay in business?

* You go shopping for a car. You purchase the car under the auspices that it's complete. After purchasing the car, you discover that the key is missing. You ask for the key and they inform you that it'll cost extra money to get the key. Don't they owe you the key? How long will they stay in business?

* You go shopping for music. You buy a cd and find out later that it's missing the last three songs, even though the artist said they'd be on there. You're then informed that you have to pay for the last three songs. How does that work out?

In every single scenario I can come up with, the company could be sued for bait and switch, false advertising, or at the very least be reported to the BBB. Yet, because this is a game from a company people like, everyone wants to say, "AH, c'mon guys, just let 'em be! They're artists!"

First off, no, they're not artists. We can paint it however we want, but the fact is they're a business that happens to employee artists. Thus, first and foremost their responsibility is to sell a product and make money off that product. When your customer base (remember, only 2% in the current poll like the endings, meaning 98% have some sort of problem with them) hates your product, it's just stupid business strategy to ignore it or blow it off. 

Secondly, we actually are entitled to a proper ending because that's what we were promised. We were told we'd have multiple endings; we got space magic and lasers. We paid money for it, meaning we now have a say in the quality of the product. Thus, it's not an entitled attitude to think we're owed something; it's basic sense. We paid for it, so yes, we're owed it. That's how the world works - if you give money to someone for a product, they owe you that product because you worked for it. It's not "entitled" to say, "Wait a second, I paid for x and got y...I want x." That's wanting to follow how societies function. 

Third, to call people who have legitimate complaints about the ending "whiners" or to paint them in a negative light as people who are entitled makes absolutely no sense. Again, if someone requests their steak a certain way and it's not done that way, are they "entitled" if they ask for it to be done properly? If someone raises a legitimate complaint about a product, especially if the product has been paid for, how is that "entitled"? 

Finally, welcome to the world of commerce. This is how business works. If customers don't like the product, entitled or not, a company is under an obligation to fix the product (if they desire to stay in business). If you don't like people complaining about a product and want them to respect the artistic endevours of the writers, then have the writers make independent games and forgo the whole business aspect. Give away the games for free.

See how that goes. There's a reason starving artists are starving...

Dear lord. It's not the product, it's the ending. Read my OP, it addresses pretty much everything you pointed out. 

Next time you see a crappy movie, demand the movie company to change it for free. See how that goes.
Now realize that in this game's case, it's not that the entire game is bad, just the last 5 minutes.

Dear lord, you lack reasoning skills. 

If one part of a product is broken, specifically a key component, then the product is defunct. If I buy a car that lacks a gas tank, then there's a problem with the product as a whole. 

I did read your OP. It sucked. That's why I replied. 

[IrishRents]

jb1983 wrote...

AllergevKev wrote...

jb1983 wrote...

 Apply this logic to anything else in the consumer world:

* You go to a restaurant where you order a 12oz steak well done. You pay and wait for the steak. When it comes out, it's hardly even cooked and obviously not finished. You demand a new steak and they fight you on it, and then charge you for a new steak. Are you saying that the restaurant doesn't owe you a new steak? If so, how long do you think that restaurant will stay in business?

* You go shopping for a car. You purchase the car under the auspices that it's complete. After purchasing the car, you discover that the key is missing. You ask for the key and they inform you that it'll cost extra money to get the key. Don't they owe you the key? How long will they stay in business?

* You go shopping for music. You buy a cd and find out later that it's missing the last three songs, even though the artist said they'd be on there. You're then informed that you have to pay for the last three songs. How does that work out?

In every single scenario I can come up with, the company could be sued for bait and switch, false advertising, or at the very least be reported to the BBB. Yet, because this is a game from a company people like, everyone wants to say, "AH, c'mon guys, just let 'em be! They're artists!"

First off, no, they're not artists. We can paint it however we want, but the fact is they're a business that happens to employee artists. Thus, first and foremost their responsibility is to sell a product and make money off that product. When your customer base (remember, only 2% in the current poll like the endings, meaning 98% have some sort of problem with them) hates your product, it's just stupid business strategy to ignore it or blow it off. 

Secondly, we actually are entitled to a proper ending because that's what we were promised. We were told we'd have multiple endings; we got space magic and lasers. We paid money for it, meaning we now have a say in the quality of the product. Thus, it's not an entitled attitude to think we're owed something; it's basic sense. We paid for it, so yes, we're owed it. That's how the world works - if you give money to someone for a product, they owe you that product because you worked for it. It's not "entitled" to say, "Wait a second, I paid for x and got y...I want x." That's wanting to follow how societies function. 

Third, to call people who have legitimate complaints about the ending "whiners" or to paint them in a negative light as people who are entitled makes absolutely no sense. Again, if someone requests their steak a certain way and it's not done that way, are they "entitled" if they ask for it to be done properly? If someone raises a legitimate complaint about a product, especially if the product has been paid for, how is that "entitled"? 

Finally, welcome to the world of commerce. This is how business works. If customers don't like the product, entitled or not, a company is under an obligation to fix the product (if they desire to stay in business). If you don't like people complaining about a product and want them to respect the artistic endevours of the writers, then have the writers make independent games and forgo the whole business aspect. Give away the games for free.

See how that goes. There's a reason starving artists are starving...

Dear lord. It's not the product, it's the ending. Read my OP, it addresses pretty much everything you pointed out. 

Next time you see a crappy movie, demand the movie company to change it for free. See how that goes.
Now realize that in this game's case, it's not that the entire game is bad, just the last 5 minutes.

Dear lord, you lack reasoning skills. 

If one part of a product is broken, specifically a key component, then the product is defunct. If I buy a car that lacks a gas tank, then there's a problem with the product as a whole. 

I did read your OP. It sucked. That's why I replied. 

Your analogies suck. That's why I replied.

[WarBaby2]

IrishRents wrote...

So if suddenly the distribution model for a business changes, you can strip it of it's value as art? So is music not art? Are fine paintings, not art? 

Mainstream music? Nope... something that is spcifically tailored to yield maximum income from a target group becomes a product.

[jb1983]

IrishRents wrote...

jb1983 wrote...

AllergevKev wrote...

jb1983 wrote...

 Apply this logic to anything else in the consumer world:

* You go to a restaurant where you order a 12oz steak well done. You pay and wait for the steak. When it comes out, it's hardly even cooked and obviously not finished. You demand a new steak and they fight you on it, and then charge you for a new steak. Are you saying that the restaurant doesn't owe you a new steak? If so, how long do you think that restaurant will stay in business?

* You go shopping for a car. You purchase the car under the auspices that it's complete. After purchasing the car, you discover that the key is missing. You ask for the key and they inform you that it'll cost extra money to get the key. Don't they owe you the key? How long will they stay in business?

* You go shopping for music. You buy a cd and find out later that it's missing the last three songs, even though the artist said they'd be on there. You're then informed that you have to pay for the last three songs. How does that work out?

In every single scenario I can come up with, the company could be sued for bait and switch, false advertising, or at the very least be reported to the BBB. Yet, because this is a game from a company people like, everyone wants to say, "AH, c'mon guys, just let 'em be! They're artists!"

First off, no, they're not artists. We can paint it however we want, but the fact is they're a business that happens to employee artists. Thus, first and foremost their responsibility is to sell a product and make money off that product. When your customer base (remember, only 2% in the current poll like the endings, meaning 98% have some sort of problem with them) hates your product, it's just stupid business strategy to ignore it or blow it off. 

Secondly, we actually are entitled to a proper ending because that's what we were promised. We were told we'd have multiple endings; we got space magic and lasers. We paid money for it, meaning we now have a say in the quality of the product. Thus, it's not an entitled attitude to think we're owed something; it's basic sense. We paid for it, so yes, we're owed it. That's how the world works - if you give money to someone for a product, they owe you that product because you worked for it. It's not "entitled" to say, "Wait a second, I paid for x and got y...I want x." That's wanting to follow how societies function. 

Third, to call people who have legitimate complaints about the ending "whiners" or to paint them in a negative light as people who are entitled makes absolutely no sense. Again, if someone requests their steak a certain way and it's not done that way, are they "entitled" if they ask for it to be done properly? If someone raises a legitimate complaint about a product, especially if the product has been paid for, how is that "entitled"? 

Finally, welcome to the world of commerce. This is how business works. If customers don't like the product, entitled or not, a company is under an obligation to fix the product (if they desire to stay in business). If you don't like people complaining about a product and want them to respect the artistic endevours of the writers, then have the writers make independent games and forgo the whole business aspect. Give away the games for free.

See how that goes. There's a reason starving artists are starving...

Dear lord. It's not the product, it's the ending. Read my OP, it addresses pretty much everything you pointed out. 

Next time you see a crappy movie, demand the movie company to change it for free. See how that goes.
Now realize that in this game's case, it's not that the entire game is bad, just the last 5 minutes.

Dear lord, you lack reasoning skills. 

If one part of a product is broken, specifically a key component, then the product is defunct. If I buy a car that lacks a gas tank, then there's a problem with the product as a whole. 

I did read your OP. It sucked. That's why I replied. 

Your analogies suck. That's why I replied.

If you don't see what I'm saying, then I'm guessing you don't, never have, and never will run a business. 

[IrishRents]

WarBaby2 wrote...

IrishRents wrote...

So if suddenly the distribution model for a business changes, you can strip it of it's value as art? So is music not art? Are fine paintings, not art? 

Mainstream music? Nope... something that is spcifically tailored to yield maximum income from a target group becomes a product.

I'm no fan of "mainstream music," and I won't be dragged into an argument over what defines art.

[SandTrout]

IrishRents wrote...

And if they make no change to the endings, will you continue to purchase their products then? As a fan of their work, you should be willing to compromise, just as they will, to get what you want.

No, I would not. I would still consider myself cheated and lied to, and they would only prove that they are unable/unwilling to write a proper ending.

I was somewhat skeptical of ME3 because of previous experiences with EA products, but my trust in BioWare overshadowed my skepticism. Now that I know that my trust was misplaced, I will no longer be doing buisness with either BioWare or EA.

[IrishRents]

jb1983 wrote...


If you don't see what I'm saying, then I'm guessing you don't, never have, and never will run a business. 

That part makes me chuckle!

[Senario]

Hmm...I would pay for an ending DLC (as long as it REALLY DID wrap up the story). I mean I want a better ending as much as everybody else.

HOWEVER If the DLC is FREE, that would be really good PR. So good in fact that I might buy every OTHER DLC (including appearance and weapon packs I didn't get in prev games). But again, this is all assuming the ending isn't another "Starchild" or something like Space magic.

[agathokakological]

hallidio wrote...

What happened to the customer is always right?

Precisely. BioWare promised us certain qualities about their product. The product fails to deliver on those qualities. If this was any other product, there would already be a recall, reimbursement, and an apology.

We just want the ending we were promised.

Modifié par agathokakological, 16 mars 2012 - 03:37 .

[WarBaby2]

IrishRents wrote...

I'm no fan of "mainstream music," and I won't be dragged into an argument over what defines art.

Suite yourself.

Sadly, that's the only argument BW could bring forth that explaines what happened to ME3... and it's not viable.

Modifié par WarBaby2, 16 mars 2012 - 03:40 .

[jb1983]

Senario wrote...

Hmm...I would pay for an ending DLC (as long as it REALLY DID wrap up the story). I mean I want a better ending as much as everybody else.

HOWEVER If the DLC is FREE, that would be really good PR. So good in fact that I might buy every OTHER DLC (including appearance and weapon packs I didn't get in prev games). But again, this is all assuming the ending isn't another "Starchild" or something like Space magic.

Thank you for proving my point. 

While many people (myself included) would have no problem paying for an ending DLC, providing it for free would go a heck of a long way further. On top of that, we did pay for an ending that was supposed to "wrap things up" (per what Casey Hudson said) and we never got one. Hence the "owed" part. 

[IrishRents]

WarBaby2 wrote...

IrishRents wrote...

I'm no fan of "mainstream music," and I won't be dragged into an argument over what defines art.

Suite yourself.

I would really like to elaborate on the issue here, but I won't.

[ManOfSteeL1618]

They promised us something and did not deliver. You think they should CHRAGE us for the endings that should have been in the game?! Seriously what is wrong with you people??? I paid my $60 for the game and From Ashes and I do NOT think it is right to give us a crappy ending on purpose only to SELL US the one we should have had. Too many companies and about profit and don't care about people, that is whats' wrong with this **** country.