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So Synthesis, destroy and control, what is the best ending


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#101
Reptillius

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Landline wrote...

Reptillius wrote...

Landline wrote...

Reptillius wrote...

Actually. In some respects... It's both.  All three games in some respects are a social schism in part by the position of a group that percieves themselves as superior to all life. Synthetic and Organic... For being both.  It's the entire basis and standing for what they consider as something far to advanced for percieved "lessers" to understand.  That being of a given current biological condition.  When you erase that difference their argument also loses it's weight and their reason to fight.  it takes away all of their percieved advantages for simply being exactly what they are.


It doesn't change my point that it's like getting rid of racisim by making everyone white, or black, or dogs for that matter. It doesn't matter what you're making them, but you're making them all the same without any impute from them.


your argument has some flaws that I'm sure several rights activists would love to argue. I'm not going to be baited into that. Needless to say there are gonna be those on either side that are going to resist equality in whatever form it takes.  Most particularly amongst those that percieve themselves superior... It's not actually a matter of turning everybody white or black but actually turning everybody Grey.  They are still shades of grey but they are still grey.



You know what it's like?

Here in Canada the government hatched a little plan to deal with the natives here. Their plan was to take the native children and place them in boarding schools run by the church. The idea was to take them and raise them like good little christians so they'd be able to integrate speamlessly into mainstream society. It failed, likely largly due to the church going straight to extremes to... indoctronate the children. But their objective was to make everyone the same reguardless of their opinion.

Today the social climate promotes seeing people as the same reguardless of their race or creed, to judge people based on their individual merrits. Treating people as equals and striving to make them all the same are two completely different things and if you don't see the difference between these then you are a bosh'tet.


Your representation of putting them in churches and going to extremes to indoctrinate them is actually a good form of the Reapers...  Even after Synthesis they are not all exactly the same unlike the Reapers... This is where resorting to name calling me and telling me I don't see differences unfortunately falls apart.  Synthesis can be seen as simply giving the galaxy a much more in your face and visually noticable proof of the simularities between all life in the galaxy.  Organic, Synthetic, and Otherwise.  Jeff after the change is still Jeff for example. yet visually he becomes much more obviously simular to say synthetic life as the more paragon course of the issues of the Geth and the issues between the Geth and The Quarian illustrate.

Your taking a change in how they look and their bioligical makeup and turning it into some extreme blanket huskification which from what little the ending shows us actually isn't the case.  It also preserves the greatest ammount of life which does seem to be a very paragon goal in the course of the games. 

Again referencing the Geth/Quarian conflict.  Where it's possible to put two rather opposed cultures to a potentially peaceful terms and actually find a balance of synthetic and Organic in that conflict and that they aren't necessarily so very different  and taking it a step further and applying it to the Reapers as well.  Just in a much more dramatic fashion.  Again it is a conclusion that while you can reach it that if you really asked both sides there would likely be some on both sides that would want anything but anything less than destruction of one race or the other.  the VI replacement for Legion actually is a very good example that some only see the need to destroy the other side where Legion himself is a good example that some would prefer peace and to understand clearly the simularities between each other.

Another good example of what actually seeing the simularities of each other. Even with groups that aren't really willing to see such simularities is the Krogan/Turian conflict.  In that if you play it through with Wrex and it continues on you actually come to see Wrex and the Primarch come to greatly respect each other for the simularities they see in each other. That of being soldiers shoved into Leadership positions and finding their leadership style in what their own race would consider anything but Traditional.  But again both sides have quite a few members that until forced to are loathed to see each other in anything but very spiteful ways. The Turians seeing themselves as superior and the Krogans fighting back to prove their equality... rather violently and self destructively in some instances.  The Salarian Dalatrass actually adds to this as well in her reactions to things like Her vehement dislike of anything that has to do with curing the genophage or giving the Krogans anything that doesn't just get them to fall into line where others of the Salarian race are quite of an opposing opinion and several actually seem to change their opinions and praise the Krogan when they see them a bit differently through the war efforts progressing.

#102
Reptillius

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Peer of the Empire wrote...

Reptillius wrote...
With the Reapers Purpose Negated by the fundamental change to life.  There is nothing from the Galaxy choosing the path that it wants anyway.  It did not entirely take away individualism as I recall. though maybe I should go watch it again to remind myself.


Who knows how horrible a machine altered mind would be.

Who knows how enlightened on might be as well.  Take Edi as an Example... Trying to understand human but at the same time finding what the reapers do as Deplorable.  Legion is another fine example of this...   All within the ME universe with a different perspective to the Reapers.


Are you also so sure that the Galaxy will decide for itself simply because you remove the Reapers as well?  Krogan for example have a much more viscious survival habit for example than say the Salarians.  By Destroying the Reapers and the Mass Relays... But certainly not all tech from the better endings are you sure your ensuring a solution that is better and not perhaps far worse?  perhaps in the form of group infighting and much deeper issues between the races over now quite limited resources?


But we have a future


Do you necessarily have that future when your busy fighting say Krogans for food and shelter?  Or Turians for the best tracts of land left over?

#103
tucsondoug

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Eh, at this point, I can't honestly call any one of those endings the 'best' ending. For reasons stated better than I could elsewhere on this forum.

Though if I had to pick one. It'd be Control, just because of this: http://i4.photobucke...un/bestblue.jpg

#104
Guest_forsaken gamer_*

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If destroy the Reapers is indeed paragon, then I think that the neutral option in ME1 "concentrate on Sovereign" should be paragon, and that the "save the Council" option should be the neutral option.   

The synthesis option seems to more closely match the "save the Council" decision, while the destroy option seems to more closely match the ME1 "concentrate on Sovereign" neutral option, to me.  Sacrifice for the greater good in the end.

With the destroy the Reapers option, you're sacrificing the Geth, AI's etc. for the greater good in the end, just as the concentrate on Soveign decision your sacrificing the Council for the greater good in the end.

From a non-meta perspective, but non of it is really all that cut and dry, though.  The ending sucks, why are we even debating it?:P  As someone said earlier, the best ending is to alt tab out of the game or power down your pc after TIM dies.

Modifié par forsaken gamer, 16 mars 2012 - 06:15 .


#105
Dreogan

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The "best" ending? They're all invalid. We've discussed this at length.

#106
shepard1038

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Reptillius wrote...

Peer of the Empire wrote...

Reptillius wrote...
With the Reapers Purpose Negated by the fundamental change to life.  There is nothing from the Galaxy choosing the path that it wants anyway.  It did not entirely take away individualism as I recall. though maybe I should go watch it again to remind myself.


Who knows how horrible a machine altered mind would be.

Who knows how enlightened on might be as well.  Take Edi as an Example... Trying to understand human but at the same time finding what the reapers do as Deplorable.  Legion is another fine example of this...   All within the ME universe with a different perspective to the Reapers.


Are you also so sure that the Galaxy will decide for itself simply because you remove the Reapers as well?  Krogan for example have a much more viscious survival habit for example than say the Salarians.  By Destroying the Reapers and the Mass Relays... But certainly not all tech from the better endings are you sure your ensuring a solution that is better and not perhaps far worse?  perhaps in the form of group infighting and much deeper issues between the races over now quite limited resources?


But we have a future


Do you necessarily have that future when your busy fighting say Krogans for food and shelter?  Or Turians for the best tracts of land left over?


You're speculating. And what does it keep in the synthesis ending the species from fighting each other.

#107
Reptillius

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Since I have been argueing Philosophy. I think I'll birng up one more point on my views of why I personally find Synthesis interesting and philosophically moral. It's the one ending that starchild as we have been calling them didn't actually come up with in all those many cycles before this one. any time before he always just elevated one group to the highest level of slaves in essence. Turning one group into a reaper to help perpetuate the cycle and he indeed puts it as he is controlling all Reapers. But the possibility until the Crucible. An entirely Organic concept by the way... That the whole cycle situation not only needs to be changed but can be changed in a way he never forsaw before. Giving you an option basically that not even godchild understands where as he's basically laid out exactly what the other two mean.

for the other two he is even implying that if you go with control you'll just end up being godchild himself and if you go with Destroy your actually just sealing your own fate in the way he's been protecting all organics from for countless cycles and that those are somehow the two only real outcomes despite noble intentions or the time it takes for them to occur.

now. I'm off to bed for the night.

#108
xcomcmdr

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Deviant Vanguard wrote...

Destroy is the paragon ending without a doubt.

Killing the Geth and EDI with it does not feel paragon at all. :/

#109
Reptillius

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shepard1038 wrote...

Reptillius wrote...

Peer of the Empire wrote...

Reptillius wrote...
With the Reapers Purpose Negated by the fundamental change to life.  There is nothing from the Galaxy choosing the path that it wants anyway.  It did not entirely take away individualism as I recall. though maybe I should go watch it again to remind myself.


Who knows how horrible a machine altered mind would be.

Who knows how enlightened on might be as well.  Take Edi as an Example... Trying to understand human but at the same time finding what the reapers do as Deplorable.  Legion is another fine example of this...   All within the ME universe with a different perspective to the Reapers.


Are you also so sure that the Galaxy will decide for itself simply because you remove the Reapers as well?  Krogan for example have a much more viscious survival habit for example than say the Salarians.  By Destroying the Reapers and the Mass Relays... But certainly not all tech from the better endings are you sure your ensuring a solution that is better and not perhaps far worse?  perhaps in the form of group infighting and much deeper issues between the races over now quite limited resources?


But we have a future


Do you necessarily have that future when your busy fighting say Krogans for food and shelter?  Or Turians for the best tracts of land left over?


You're speculating. And what does it keep in the synthesis ending the species from fighting each other.


Indeed you can argue that I am. But I am making speculations based on what are at this point the base natures and behaviors of several races that at the end of ME 3 they still have not shaken and being thrown into an even more desperate situation without an enemy to fight any longer where they might be even more prone to falling back on those natures to survive.

you are also speculating.

And as for the Synthesis ending it doesn't necessarily... but one thing it does do. It has the most immediate potential to redefine species and why they fight and more immediately why they don't.  it also more directly and visually redefines things like their differences and their simularities than an ending like Destroy.

ok... and now I'm actually going to bed... for real this time.

#110
WarGriffin

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I sit there and let Harby blow up the Crucible


then Harby falls to Marine Antilles as he solo's Harby in a single fighter cause his that ****ing good

#111
Ainyan42

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I can't see my Shepard taking any of them.

Destroy: Genocide of an allied race and rejection of the sacrifice of a friend
Control: Enslavement of an entire race
Synthesis: Removal of the free-will and individuality of every living creature (and plant, apparently) in the ME universe

I'm afraid my silver-tongued Paragon would have a few choice words to say to StarChild about any and all of them - except the dialogue wheel broke during the magic panel ride.

#112
Veracity

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If by "best", you mean the most heroic/light/paragon, then it really comes down to what you perceive as being the least overbearing / evil route to take.

Control - Playing god / Absolute Power (As a Renegade Shep, you could conceivably use your new found Reaper army to destroy all those who oppose humanity.)
Synthesis - Removal of free-will from a evolution-esqe standpoint / Genetic homogenization of all life.
Destroy - Genocide

Oh, and remember that it doesn't really matter anyway because without the relays no one will really be able to import in the necessary resources to maintain the current infrastructures built around having interstellar travel. So all civilizations die or become extremely dormant anyway.

#113
Phattee Buttz

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Hmmm I don't know. which is better?:

1) being punched in the teeth
2) being kicked in the balls
3) stepping in dog poo

#114
ticklefist

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The best ending is where Shep says "Bull****, you just created these options when I got here. Liara figured this thing out 3 weeks ago. The crucible is a reaper sucking vaccum that yanks every single one of you bastards into the citadel relay where you're instantly ported back into dark space. We took advantage of your absence and littered the place with planet sized nuclear mines. Welcome home!" *switch*

Fanfic speculation endings ftw.

#115
lrrose

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Synthesis.

Destroying the geth would go against my Shepard's beliefs.

Controlling the Reapers would make my Shepard a hypocrite after the TIM confrontation.

So I chose Synthesis. Turning everyone into a cyborg isn't as bad as people say.

Where does everyone get the idea that Synthesis removes free will? All it does is use SPACE MAGIC to turn everyone into a cyborg.

Modifié par lrrose, 16 mars 2012 - 06:29 .


#116
shepard1038

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Veracity wrote...

If by "best", you mean the most heroic/light/paragon, then it really comes down to what you perceive as being the least overbearing / evil route to take.

Control - Playing god / Absolute Power (As a Renegade Shep, you could conceivably use your new found Reaper army to destroy all those who oppose humanity.)
Synthesis - Removal of free-will from a evolution-esqe standpoint / Genetic homogenization of all life.
Destroy - Genocide

Oh, and remember that it doesn't really matter anyway because without the relays no one will really be able to import in the necessary resources to maintain the current infrastructures built around having interstellar travel. So all civilizations die or become extremely dormant anyway.


At least on the Destroy ending you see the reapers exploding and burning, that felt very good.Posted Image

#117
Alraiis

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shepard1038 wrote...

A question what is the best ending on Me3: Control, Destroy or Synthesis?

Is it;

1.Destroy: paragon
2. Synthesis :neutral
3. Control: renegade.

What do you think?


I think Control is Paragon, just as brainwashing the heretic Geth was. I do find it amusing how many people are swapping these, or saying the coloration of the options is a "trick", trying to reconcile their thought that Paragon options are always right with the fact that, in this case, they lean Renegade. Destruction is a solution focused on preserving individualism and it accomplishes that goal by blowing things up. classic Renegade. (I'm not arguing against the Destroy choice—I'm in favor of it.)

Heck, if you viewed the path Shepard walks when making the ending choices from above, it would look like the forking lines that branch off of the dialogue wheel. Assuming Shepard is walking left-to-right from this viewpoint, the Destroy path is Renegade.

#118
Dark Penitant

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lrrose wrote...

Synthesis.

Destroying the geth would go against my Shepard's beliefs.

Controlling the Reapers would make my Shepard a hypocrite after the TIM confrontation.

So I chose Synthesis. Turning everyone into a cyborg isn't as bad as people say.

Where does everyone get the idea that Synthesis removes free will? All it does is use SPACE MAGIC to turn everyone into a cyborg.



Because it eliminates the choice of the people. I don't want anyone but me to have a say in what happens with my body.

#119
Moirai

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Unaware of the endings prior to playing, I went with Destroy, for the simple fact that my Shepard sticks to her guns and finishes her mission, and that was to destroy the Reapers and rid the galaxy of them forever.

There is no room for any ambiguity on that point.

EDIT: And yes, Earth survived, and I got the deep breath scene. Although at the time I didn't realise that it was unique to that particular choice, being my only playthrough.

Modifié par Moirai, 16 mars 2012 - 06:41 .


#120
shepard1038

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Alraiis wrote...

shepard1038 wrote...

A question what is the best ending on Me3: Control, Destroy or Synthesis?

Is it;

1.Destroy: paragon
2. Synthesis :neutral
3. Control: renegade.

What do you think?


I think Control is Paragon, just as brainwashing the heretic Geth was. I do find it amusing how many people are swapping these, or saying the coloration of the options is a "trick", trying to reconcile their thought that Paragon options are always right with the fact that, in this case, they lean Renegade. Destruction is a solution focused on preserving individualism and it accomplishes that goal by blowing things up. classic Renegade. (I'm not arguing against the Destroy choice—I'm in favor of it.)

Heck, if you viewed the path Shepard walks when making the ending choices from above, it would look like the forking lines that branch off of the dialogue wheel. Assuming Shepard is walking left-to-right from this viewpoint, the Destroy path is Renegade.

Then why did the Ilusive Man appear on the control ending, you're doing what he wanted. In that ending you don't
stop anything. In the destroy choice Anderson appears. In Synthesis no one appears stating that it could go either
way. Hence is the neutral option. Also you need to have a lot of war assets to get in the destroy ending where
Shepard lives and the Earth is intact.

#121
Dark Penitant

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That's metagaming and you know it. We're talking morality, not bloody positioning.

#122
Jake Boone

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Out of curiosity, where does it say that Synthesis means loss of free will. As far as I know, you atomic structure gets changed, you don't become enslaved or anything. The governments, or what's left of them, are still independent of one another. We become a bunch of EDI's with goals, likes and dislikes, and passions, not terminators or drones

#123
Dark Penitant

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Exactly. Your atomic structure gets changed, without your consent or permission, and there's no way to revoke that consent or hell, to even give it in the first place. Regardless of any and all "benefits," it is absolutely a violation of bodily sovereignty, and I will have no part in supporting it. I have no right to decide that for literally trillions of people, and I'd rather die than be forced into making that decision. So no, damn the effects, I categorically refuse to support this on principle.

#124
Nixter Shepard

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Turning off the game before you go up the elevator to meet the Catalyst.

#125
Falcon509

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After playing both Control and Destroy, I do have to side with Destroy. It's clearly the best option.