1086 réponses à ce sujet

[Baronesa]

OP???

BRAVO

I said this before, on a few of my first posts, specially when the whole "singularity" issue was being discussed... Yes the theme goes against everything you were presented in the game, and the ending premise is indeed RACIST... Organics vs synthetics, that is the mask they use...

If you are ok with wiping out AI, then you are ok witht he genophage or the genocide of the Rachni, etc...

[DextroDNA]

The only thing racist about the ending was the fact there wasn't a yellow colour for Asians and a black colour for black people. No offence or anything

Modifié par RussianZombeh, 17 mars 2012 - 12:11 .

[sydsyrious]

This was very thought provoking. I do not see the racism part, but everything else relating to the genocide part....I see where you are going. It is offensive in that we are forced to actually take part in this and so this nails the argument that BW gave us no choices. We are forced to accept a choice not made by us and "none of the above" should have been included.

[ollec92]

After finishing Mass effect 3 i felt empty... I felt as if a void of nothingness had consumed me. "What kind of ending is this?!" Right up until the end I viewed it as one oft the three greatest games of all time. However, my opinion was then corrupted by wahat I thought were poor writing...
It has taken a few days of contemplation and the aid of a certain video to turn that opinion around. It is not untill you realize what might realy be going on that you appreciate the current ending. I'm certain you can find this somewhere else on this website, but i belive that everyone who is the least intrested in the ending to Mass effect 3 should watch this exceptionally well made video.

[Vamp44]

Yes.

[eddieoctane]

SandTrout wrote...

Hey, if they wanted the ending to be open to interpretation, this seems perfectly valid to me.

^This.^

Without BioWare commenting on the endings, the writers being fans of genocide is as plausible as indoctrination or the ending being real. Looking at everything the little turd said, he does look like a little unfeeling ******. We have evidence that the conflict between synthetics and organics can be solved peaceably. Believing that it isn't sustainable "because I said so" amounts to little more than racism. Yeah, fair theory.

[Harorrd]

yeha ghost child is worse than Hitler, lol

[Auztin]

Racist?No.Techist?Yeah.

I want a refund.My whole 15 credits.I been asking for it for 3 years.

[Ludica]

Auztinito wrote...

I want a refund.My whole 15 credits.I been asking for it for 3 years.

"NO! Your toaster is an evil synthetic being that will one day plan your destruction! That's what the deep and artistic ending of Mass Effect 3 taught you, unfaithful whiners!"

That is, that's what i would sound like if my brain was for some reason separated from my body.

In all sense, this tells a lot about people who actively assert the endings are fine and insult other people who bring this up.

[Team Value]

I agree with the gist of what the OP is saying. I don't think Bioware are a bunch of racists, but I also don't think they really put any serious thought into the philosophical or logical implications of the ending they made (how could they have).

Shepard essentially becomes even worse than the reapers. He not only wipes out galactic civilization for them, but he also goes even further and--unless mass relay explosions magically don't destroy the solar systems they reside in anymore--destroys all life in the galaxy that happens to be near a mass relay. All because of some bogus predestination BS.

This ending was just really idiotic.

[t003]

SandTrout wrote...

Hey, if they wanted the ending to be open to interpretation, this seems perfectly valid to me.

This.

[SharlenaSharlena]

Zine2 wrote...

This is not meant to be nice. This is meant to be a blunt, honest, and to the point assessment - because everyone seems to be trying to avoid the Elephant in the room.

Mass Effect's Ending attempts to condone and justify genocide. This is why it is almost universally reviled.

The one common element in all the endings is that you will meet an entity known as the "Catalyst". Set aside all of the other plot holes and minor complaints, and focus on the Catalyst for now.

This is the entity that created the Reapers. This is the entity that is directly responsible for the genocide of multiple sentient races over tens of thousands of years. It is his fault that Earth, Palaven, Thessia, and the Galaxy is burning.

The Catalyst is in fact a war criminal on a scale worse than any of our own real-world tyrants. Hitler's gas chambers, Genghis Khan's campaigns of extermination, and Tamerlene's pyramid of skulls is nothing compared to what the Reapers have done. That it tries to disguise itself as a young child does nothing to exonerate it of the magnitude of its crimes - it's actually sickening. It's like Hitler having plastic surgery to look like an innocent child.

Even worse, this is an entity that attempts to justify its genocidal actions - in a way that is bluntly little different from the real world genocide of the Jews.

It uses euphemisms to describe mass murder. It uses the term "Chaos" to describe people, as though they are a problem and not living, breathing, beings. It calls its actions a "Solution", just as the certain people called the Holocaust their "Final Solution". It even goes as far as calling the the liquification of corpses into Reaper components as "Ascension", no different from how the Concentration Camps collected the hair and skin of the dead victims to use as furniture components.

Even worse, the premise of the Catalyst is fundamentally a racist premise. It boils down to "Organics and Synthetics are so different that they will always end up destroying each other". Really? You are now judged by your component parts - metal or protein - instead of the content of your character? How offensive would it be in real life to hear someone say you should be judged by the color of your skin?

To top it all off, the player is not allowed to question its actions. It must stand idly by and accept its justifications. You are not allowed to tell it that is wrong. Mac Walters and Casey Hudson actually thought this was a good thing too, as noted here in the "Final Hours":

Mac Walters on the Star Child/Reapers
"Originally, with the catalyst, the star child at the end of the game, I had written that much more in the guise of a investigative style conversation, where there is something he tells you but then, you get to ask a bunch of questions and you get your questions answered. But then me and Casey talked and decided, lets keep the conversation "High level". Give you the details that you need to know, but don't get into the stuff that you don't need to know. Like "How long have they been reaping?" You don't need to know the answers to the mass effect universe. So we intentionally left those out"

But given that they were planning to allow the player to ask only softball questions ("How long have you been reaping?", as opposed to "Why did you not seek a different solution that did NOT involve mass murder?"), they were apparently so in love with their "Genocide is justifiable!" ending that they didn't think it was a big deal.

======
But it gets even worse. You are not simply prevented from telling the Catalyst that it is wrong. You are also forced to go along with its next plan - its next "solution".

This is why the most popular alternate ending thus far is the "I refuse all of your options" ending. Players would seriously rather have the entire galaxy wiped out than be forced to serve the Catalyst.

And you know what? Because they are absolutely right.

Genocide is wrong. Period. There is no room for debate. Nothing can justify what the Catalyst did, no matter how much it claims it's so much smarter than all of us. No matter how much Mac Walters thinks its smarter than all of us.

And this is ironically a lesson that the rest of the series spends so much time teaching us. It shows us that even beings of another races are people "just like us" with their own hopes and dreams. It doesn't matter if the Elcor are big and look funny. We love them because they have art, and culture, and feelings too, even if we cannot fully comprehend it like they do.
----

This is why the ME3 ending was a total and abject failure. It is not art. It is not deep. It is offensive.

It is about a brat AI proudly explaining his Mein Kampf. That people should be judged along racial lines: Organic vs Synthetic. And that because of these racial lines, he was totally justified in committing genocide over, and over, and over again.

And the player is forced to become one of the pawns in his game. That is why players hate the ending; and why the most popular "alternative" ending is one wherein the player completely and totally rejects the Catalyst's "options", even if it means certain military defeat.
-----
[Also... since some people will argue "But the Catalyst is correct about organics and synthetics!"

The Catalyst was in fact completely and totally wrong. Just because it says it's correct does not mean it is true. That is the trick used by propagandists everywhere.

Instead, what people should do is to analyze the strength of its arguments. And frankly, anyone with some common sense would realize that this is a very weak argument.

There is nothing that inherently forces Organics and Synthetics to fight each other. Races and people fight all the time. Turians make war on Krogans. Krogans make war on Salarians. Even without synthetics there will still be conflict in the universe.

However, the Catalyst's premise is that there is a divide between Synthetics and Organics, and that they are "fated" to kill each other. That's not a sound argument. That's just racist ideology. Again that's just judging people based on their component parts - metal or protein - rather than the strength of their character. Only a racist in the real world would claim that your character is dictated by the color of your skin, just as the Catalyst's grand assertion that being a Synthetic or an Organic hard-wires you down a particular path is no less racist.

And ironically, you can in fact forge an alliance between an organic and Synthetic race (Quarians and Geth) within the game - proving that the divide between the two is nothing more than a lie.

Therefore, what the Catalyst is saying is not factual. Just because it says "the cycle will continue" without its intervention does not make it true. It's just an arrogant being who is trying to play God, and which has killed trillons of sentient beings in the name of upholding its flawed premise.]

Take a breath and calm down.
Mein Kampf is a little extreme don't cha think? I see your comparison and I am not denying that some of your arguments hold similarities that I understand from finsihing the game and seeing the endings for myself but I wouldn't off the top of my head say this game is promoting genocide and racism. And to be quite honest why wouldn't you want an entire race of sentient alien killing machines to be completely wiped out? I mean if you would rather live in harmony with them and get reaped all day and night that's your business but I will kill them all every playthrough I get.

I do agree that the God child (that name just exudes arrogance) was a very conceited character and since it had nothing to do with the plot of the series until its inception into ME3 I believe it is an extension of its creating developer's ego. 

The game itself tho has nothing to do with racism, on the contrary Shep was fighting to bring all the races together so we could all survive;the series has everything to do with helping every other species in the galaxy.  How is that racist if I kill the evil doers to save everyone else of every different background?

[Joy Sauce]

You know I didn't NEED another reason to hate the ending. Thanks for giving me one though.

[Silent Rage]

Can't believe this is still alive.

[Eudaemonium]

Bravo, OP! I shamefully hadn't actually considered this, but it is true.

I don;t think Bioware intended it to be, but ti si an unfortunate consequence of the endng as it stands. And yet more evidence for why the ending is utterly incongruous with the entire setting up to that point.

[RenownedRyan]

vx SmOkEy xv wrote...

I have a dream.... That Organics and Synthetics and even Reapers Can all just get along!!!!

You fused Martin Luther King and Rodney King there.  lol

[Eudaemonium]

Luc0s wrote...

TheMadBlimper wrote...

This is why I chose to destroy that little #@$!er, and everything associated with him.

Unfortunately, technology as a whole was wiped out, along with the Geth, as collateral damage.

Technology as a whole is still fine. Only the mass-relays and the geth are destroyed. People need to stop painting the Destroy ending worse than it really is. It's actually the best ending out there. Sure, you sacrifice the geth, but you rid the galaxy of this abomination known as the Catalyst and his Reapers.

This galaxy belongs to us, now get the f*ck out of my galaxy! *KABOOM*

You still commit genocide on an innocent group of persons who are your allies, just because they happen to be made of metal, which isn't really justifiable.

[RenownedRyan]

Personally, I think you humans are all racist.

[Piarath]

Luc0s wrote...

TheMadBlimper wrote...

This is why I chose to destroy that little #@$!er, and everything associated with him.

Unfortunately, technology as a whole was wiped out, along with the Geth, as collateral damage.

Technology as a whole is still fine. Only the mass-relays and the geth are destroyed. People need to stop painting the Destroy ending worse than it really is. It's actually the best ending out there. Sure, you sacrifice the geth, but you rid the galaxy of this abomination known as the Catalyst and his Reapers.

This galaxy belongs to us, now get the f*ck out of my galaxy! *KABOOM*

Even if it doesn't blow up the Galaxy- and a mass relay being destroyed has been established that it'll wipe out the solar system it's in- which isn't entirely unplausible but needs explenation to NOT be unlikely, you're still plunging the Galaxy into a dark age. The dark ages weren't good even when they're on earth. A galactic dark age? That's not exactly what we were fighting to achieve. Sure, we don't go extinct, but might as well have.

Hey, I could be wrong, but until concrete answers come out, they're the two most likely cases. So, either way, it's a pretty crap picture. We'd probably have been better off all dying and just leaving the next cycle to be free of Reapers.

[Tireces]

Folks who think the discussion is about Bioware being driven by racism I think need to settle down. This isn't "BIOWARE R RACISTS", the discussion is about how the tone of the ending is. No one's saying it was intentional. It's more likely a really embarrassing error. Kind of like some company comes up with this logo for themselves, and for some reason no one realizes until the complaints come pouring in that it looks like a swastika. Company wasn't showing support for **** causes, they just made a serious booboo and didn't put much thought into it. No one's saying to write congress about a freaking computer game or to bring legal action over it (at least not here, anyways).

[Arduous Wolf]

The whole synthetics and organics thing does send the message that people that are different will never be able to live in harmony because of said differences...so yes it is a bit racist but I don't think it was intended. At least I hope it wasn't intended.

Modifié par Arduous Wolf, 17 mars 2012 - 02:32 .

[Super_Angurius]

Yeah, I don't think Bioware intended any racism. It's just that the game has unfourtunate implications. Like I said earlier, it's similer to the "Cow Tools" or "Dogs Dream" farside strip. The creators weren't paying attention, and didn't realize that people might see things that weren't supposed to be there. But once you see it, you can't not see it.

[Estelindis]

Zine2, I agree with everything in your opening post. Well said.

[Vandicus]

For the destroy ending I think its more of an end justifies the means thing rather than a statement about racism(indiscriminate weapon towards friends or enemies). After all, Shepard already proved Catalyst wrong with the Geth. I personally prefer the destroy option, and view it as regrettable that the Geth might've died, but at least Catalyst was wrong or lying about EDI and shep right? The catalyst does seem to try to play on an inherent distrust for synthetics that it presumes shep has when arguing how awful the destroy ending is.