burb2500 wrote...
1. Mass Effect does NOT condone or justify genocide. At no point does Shepard (or any other character that you encounter) state that genocide is a good thing. You even state this yourself
Incorrect, and you are employing the tactic known as "misdirection".
I have stated that the one who tries to justify is the entity known as the "Catalyst". It created the Reapers. It then attempts to justify its actions by claiming there is "Chaos" in the universe which needs a "solution".
I have never stated that Shepard state genocide as a good thing, therefore you claim that "Shepard never states genocide is a good thing" is meaningless.
You are arguing against a non-existent argument. This is called "misdirection".
Does the last 5 minutes negate the rest of the three games?
Except this is not a commentary about the rest of the series. It is a commentary soley on the last five minutes of the game. So again, blatant misdirection on your part.
If the Destroy ending was the only ending
Again, blatant misdirection on your party. Read my OP very carefully. I never even discussed the merit of the three choices presented by the Catalyst. I am talking purely about the Catalyst's previous actions - which include the mass genocide of the Protheans, and all the other races systematically murdered in previous cycles.
TL;DR: You entire Point 1 is a blatant attempt at misdirection; complaining about things I never actually said, and neatly avoiding the true core of the issue: The Catalyst created the Reapers. The Reapers have committed multiple acts of genocide. The Catalyst then attempts to justify its actions by saying it was just solving "Chaos" (ignoring that he's referring to people) by creating a "Solution" (a euphemism for genocide).
The ending thus very much condones genocide by allowing the Catalyst an uncontested platform to preach its ideology of hatred.
You have not addressed this. Come back when you actually have, and stop wasting everyone's time.
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2. There are consistent references to the Jewish Holocaust throughout your post which I feel do not serve your argument at all.
I am not here to make you feel good. I am here to tell you the blunt, honest truth.
The Holocaust happened because a madman named Hitler claimed that there was a "Jewish Problem", because he was an idiotic, hateful individual who believed that Jews and Germans could never co-exist. His "Solution": Genocide.
Mass Effect happened because an idiot called the Catalyst claimed there was a "Synthetic-Organic Problem", because it was an idiotc, hateful individual who believed that Synthetics and Organics could never co-exist. His Solution? Genocide.
Both even went as far as to use the body parts of their slain victims as furniture.
These parallels will exist and remain no matter how much you close your eyes and cover your ears.
Tl;DR: "But I don't like to hear the Holocaust!" is not a valid counter-argument to the FACT that the Reaper's actions parallel the Holocaust to a disturbing degree.
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3. Your terminology is inaccurate at worst, misleading at best. Let’s start with the word “Racist.”
And I frankly don't care. It's again exceedingly simple. The Catalyst had a prejudiced premise: Synthetics and Organics are hardwired to kill each other. This is no different from claiming the Black Man and White Man are hardwired to kill each other.
Call it racism. Call it sci-fi racism. Call it xenophobia. I don't care.
It's nothing more than prejudice. It's the ideology of hatred. These are ideas we explictly reject as a modern and civilized society.
TL;DR: Arguing about semantics is pointless. The Catalyst is operating based on an ideology of hatred based on "racial" prejudices.
The cycle they perpetuate is not based on the race, nor is it based on species. Their cycle is based on a cold, hard logic that leads them to believe that 100 times out of a 100 synthetics will wipe out organics. They destroy synthetics because to not do so would invite the end of organics forever. Are the Reapers correct? Perhaps not, but their motives are based on the concept of the “greater good,” not the Third Reich. Do not ascribe motivations to the Reapers that they do not have.
It does not matter. Hitler also believed that wiping out the Jews served the "greater good". Intent does not matter. Action does.
And all you're doing is to justify and condone genocide.
4. Moving on to your use of the word “Genocide.”
I have no interest in debating useless semantics with a clearly dishonest debator who uses misdirection and deliberately ignores clear parallels between the atrocities of the Holocaust and the Reapers because it makes him feel bad.
Like I said, this is not meant to be a nice thread.
The murder of an entire species is genocide. It's plain and simple. Accept it.
5. Related to the previous point, have you ever played a sci-fi game before? (Don’t answer that, it was rhetorical).
Yes I have. And I refuse to play your games with your continued and blatant attempts to . I will answer whatever I want, and I will repeat the
facts of the case that you continually ignore because you are not attempting a rebuttal. You are just talking right past what I actually said, spouting nonsense about how the Reapers are actually serving the "Greater Good" by committing mass genocide.
The idea of an alien enemy wiping out all of civilization is not new to the sci-fi genre
No, and I will now lecture you on the
real implications of this which you blatantly ignore.
Genocide can be depicted in many different ways in sci-fi. It can be hard-hitting and remisniscent of reality, like in Battlestar Galactica (Reimagined). It can be played to the point of ridiculousness, like in Warhammer 40K, that only becomes bearable because everyone in that setting is so evil.
In the case of Mass Effect 3 however, one of the consistent themes of the series is the ability of races to put aside their differences and work together. It is working based on a theme of universal understanding. That all sentients can stand together side by side.
The Catalyst is the very opposite of this ideal. It works based on a prejudiced premise. It is a genocidal monster. It literally parallels Hitler no matter how much you close your eyes and cover your ears because you cannot handle the truth.
And yet you are not allowed to question it. You are instead forced to take its premise as fact, and then create a new "final solution" of its own choosing.
It fundamentally overturns the themes of universal unity that the rest of the series has created - to the point of outright betrayal. That is why it is offensive. That is why the ending is "racist" (or xenophobic. Or whatever. Nobody cares about the semantic details except pendantic fools who beat around the bush like you). This is the simple, terrible reality of the ending of Mass Effect.
So stop whining because you can't handle the truth. The rest of your arguments are just repeats of your modus operandi of blatant misdirection, whining about real-world parallels, condoning genocide as "greater good", playng semantic word games, and sly attempts at throwing mud at your opponent.
Modifié par Zine2, 21 mars 2012 - 07:43 .
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control the Reapers ( basically enslave them to your will) 
