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I noticed zine2 didn't even bother to comment on my post... guess it was too logical....
The Ending was Racist and Offensive
Débuté par
Zine2
, mars 16 2012 03:42
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#802
Posté 27 mars 2012 - 09:57
David_Sylver
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Misguided political correctness cobblers like this is almost enough to make one dress up as one of Adolf's gang. Almost.
#803
Posté 27 mars 2012 - 09:57
Zine2
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Nightdragon8 wrote...
I noticed zine2 didn't even bother to comment on my post... guess it was too logical....
I don't reply to all posts. And... I don't really see any point that our views would be contradictory. So why issue a "challenge" like this?
#804
Posté 27 mars 2012 - 09:58
Zine2
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David_Sylver wrote...
Misguided political correctness cobblers like this is almost enough to make one dress up as one of Adolf's gang. Almost.
Again, I find that very funny as my friends all put me in the "Anti-Political Correct Camp".
But then again, most people don't read the OP and just try to be snarky (only to look ignorant to people who DID read the OP).
#805
Posté 27 mars 2012 - 09:59
Icinix
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Cultural Genocide
Eventual Galactic Genoice
Synthetic Race Genocide
Synthesis
Control
Destroy
There is no good option - all of them are bad.
Eventual Galactic Genoice
Synthetic Race Genocide
Synthesis
Control
Destroy
There is no good option - all of them are bad.
#806
Posté 27 mars 2012 - 10:04
CRISIS1717
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Simply put the OP means Shepard has to go along with what the Starchild says when the Starchild is in fact a mass murderer and instigator of genocide.
You cannot really question Starchilds actions or outright condemn them or even refuse. I think OP is right there is no justification and yet we have to follow it.
He also likened Starchild to a war criminal which is pretty much true.
You cannot really question Starchilds actions or outright condemn them or even refuse. I think OP is right there is no justification and yet we have to follow it.
He also likened Starchild to a war criminal which is pretty much true.
#807
Posté 27 mars 2012 - 10:09
Icinix
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CRISIS1717 wrote...
Simply put the OP means Shepard has to go along with what the Starchild says when the Starchild is in fact a mass murderer and instigator of genocide.
You cannot really question Starchilds actions or outright condemn them or even refuse. I think OP is right there is no justification and yet we have to follow it.
He also likened Starchild to a war criminal which is pretty much true.
The worst war criminal quite literally that ever was or probably ever will be by an amazing margin.
One of the reasons why i'm certain 98% of people tried to shoot him when player control was returned.
#808
Posté 27 mars 2012 - 10:10
Saul Iscariot
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The synthesis ending doesn't bring peace is the much avoided topic. It creates one species who are now free to fall out over serious issues such as which is better mint or orange chocolate.
#809
Posté 27 mars 2012 - 10:14
azerSheppard
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This is either an epic troll topic, or the OP is butthurt.<<no offense to jewish people;
#810
Posté 27 mars 2012 - 10:15
CRISIS1717
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Saul Iscariot wrote...
The synthesis ending doesn't bring peace is the much avoided topic. It creates one species who are now free to fall out over serious issues such as which is better mint or orange chocolate.
True story.
#811
Posté 27 mars 2012 - 10:20
Dendio1
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This is why the ME3 ending was a total and abject failure. It is not art. It is not deep. It is offensive.
This is where I stopped reading. Seriously...its all fantastic racism (http://tvtropes.org/...antasticRacism. Dont take it personally. You raised some interesting points on the star child and the way he views organics, but you crossed the line with such blatant hyperbole. Me3 is the farthest thing from total and abject fail.
Im done with this thread.
#812
Posté 27 mars 2012 - 10:22
Rodia Driftwood
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This was created 11 days ago?. Who the hell resurrected this crap?.
#813
Posté 27 mars 2012 - 10:27
MOELANDER
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KustomDeluxe wrote...
That was undoubtedly the most disturbing part the "Synthesis" ending held for me.
I mean, honestly you had:
Destroy and commit genocide on Geth/AI
Control and compromise morals in name of "greater good" (a slippery slope justification at its finest)
Synthesize and, y'know, remove the free-will and individual nature of every species & person/alien-person in the galaxy.
...
...
Yay for genocide and dictatorship I guess?
It's even more NSDAP-Ideology they put in there:
Control: The NSDAP had a motto: "Am Deutschen Wesen soll die Welt genesen". It means something like, that under control of Germany the world would be "healed".
Synthesis: This is the worst! Pinnacle of Evolution? What, just like Aryanism? All those "Pinnacle of Evolution" ideas always imply that everyone else is inferior. It's the most Racist mindset possible. Racism came from a derailed idea of evolution. It's sickening and the only end I never could bring myself to choose, because of it's ideology.
I am a german fan BioWare. Now that I have been made aware of this I feel sick! I am angry! I wish I could report this as ideological dangerous, but noone who isn't so invested in the game like me would listen to it. And then the NeoN A Z I s would use it to further their cause...
Okay now I am overreacting.
But still the ending is racist, and I hope that IT turns out correct now, because that would mean BioWare never bore such disgusting thoughts!
P.S.: I want to add something: Racism is okay in a narrative as a means to portray the bad guys motives or something like that. The Reapers are racist towards organics, that's fine. But when you force racist decisions upon the player... that's where I draw the line!
Modifié par MOELANDER, 27 mars 2012 - 10:35 .
#814
Posté 27 mars 2012 - 10:48
SCK barman
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I'm just finding this tread now, and, yeah lots of good points that i'd never even considered ( guess i was to taken back by the 
of the ending to give it any thought) I guess bioware are getting their 'lots of speculation for everyone' Which i suppose is a plus for them? (shrugs)
of the ending to give it any thought) I guess bioware are getting their 'lots of speculation for everyone' Which i suppose is a plus for them? (shrugs)
#815
Posté 27 mars 2012 - 10:50
Baronesa
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MOELANDER wrote...
P.S.: I want to add something: Racism is okay in a narrative as a means to portray the bad guys motives or something like that. The Reapers are racist towards organics, that's fine. But when you force racist decisions upon the player... that's where I draw the line!
Ditto. The whole "love to hate" the enemy rely on this... make them be the most despicable you can. But the moment they FORCE you to accept spacebrat's logic, without a chance to refuse it, then they are FORCING starcild's ideology on you... you are forced to accept one of the 3 "solutions" starchild presents.
That is why so many people came up with the "refuse" option
#817
Posté 27 mars 2012 - 11:07
Petrikles
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I would have never believed to jump on a "racism" train, especially in that it concerns something as simple as an computer game. With me, too, friends would certainly not describe me as a personwho likes to cross reference at every fitting or non-fitting occasion. But this here is indeed a bit too far going; especially because the implications are hidden and need to be reveiled. I am all with the OP on that.
BTW, I am German and thus pretty much tired of the whole topic, because racism and ****crimes are exhaustingly pointed out in Germany at every fitting and unfitting occasion still as of today. But as I said, here, I really think it needs to be pointed out.
P.S.: I think we agree that we don´t mean to attack any author concerned of racism. This is a criticizm of the game itself, as a "piece of art", its message, ethics and morale which it brings to the observer.
BTW, I am German and thus pretty much tired of the whole topic, because racism and ****crimes are exhaustingly pointed out in Germany at every fitting and unfitting occasion still as of today. But as I said, here, I really think it needs to be pointed out.
P.S.: I think we agree that we don´t mean to attack any author concerned of racism. This is a criticizm of the game itself, as a "piece of art", its message, ethics and morale which it brings to the observer.
Modifié par Kailord, 27 mars 2012 - 11:10 .
#818
Posté 27 mars 2012 - 11:49
orangesonic
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wow... some people really take it veeery seriously
#819
Posté 27 mars 2012 - 12:14
Lupus Canivus
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I think Zine2 has a lot of valied points. I refused to finish the game at that point because I did not want to be a part of any of those endings. Bioware/EA wanted a lot "of speculation" on the ending well they are getting it.
Hold the line!
Hold the line!
#820
Posté 27 mars 2012 - 12:20
majinbuu1307
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At first, I was gonna say you are looking to hard into this, but then I read further, and I agree. Stupid Catalyst. Obviously cycles can be broken, the Geth are proof that we can get along, THERE IS ALWAYS GOING TO BE CHAOS, but somehow life finds a way. No need to annhiliate EVERYONE. Jerk.
#821
Guest_forsaken gamer_*
Posté 27 mars 2012 - 12:30
Guest_forsaken gamer_*
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Ok, my mistake then.Zine2 wrote...
Again, you're mistaking artistic criticism with demands for censorship.
Saying "It is a bad ending because it goes against well-established universal values" is not the same as "All endings must only stick to well-established universal values".
Artistic criticisms means you analyze a work beyond the surface and compare and contrast it with reality and other workds of art. If the work is contrary to well-established universal values, then it is a valid criticism particularly if the rest of the artwork promotes these universal values. ME3's ending fails in this regard. They want you to unite the galaxy (including Synthetics and Organics) and then buy into this "Synthetic vs Organic" nonesense at the end.
By contrast, take the example of Warhammer 40K. It is a setting wherein the universal values I mentioned are not only rejected; they virtually don't exist. "In the grim darkness of the far future, there is only war". Genocide is commonplace and expected. War is the answer to everything. Aliens are not potential allies, but threats to be destroyed.
And the setting has gotten flak for being so absurdly grim dark (again, a valid criticism). But surprisingly, some of the best Warhammer 40K "art" (particularly Dan Abnett novels) actually manage to take advantage of the setting's grim outlook to make stories that are more poignant and even uplifting by showing the human reactions (particularly heroic reactions) to such barbarity. As Abnett summed it up with his pithy reply to the setting's premise:
In the grim darkness of the far future there is more than war. There are people there too.
Yeah, they do a 180 on you. The trilogy seems to be fairly idealistic. Conflict is shown to be abated with an eventual peace framework between the races, if you made the right decisions, which are paragon. etc. Everything falls into place. Then the ending with the Catalyst comes, which discards all of this, and asks you what flavor of genocide would you prefer, offering contradicting logic to what you've been sold . It would be different if it was as you described in the Warhammer example, but that's not how they sell it to you. The idealism was abandoned, so it seems.
Modifié par forsaken gamer, 27 mars 2012 - 12:37 .
#822
Posté 27 mars 2012 - 12:59
MOELANDER
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This is seriously disgusting me right now.
I have been to Auschwitz and to the much worse Auschwitz Birkenau. I saw what my people - the germans - did there.
I cried when I saw the shoes of thousands of kids, thrown on a pile by the SS.
I was there with a jewish friend of mine and I couldn't look him into the eye. I could only say "I'm so sorry" again and again.
He hugged me and helped me through the whole ordeal of watching the atrocities that were committed there. Birkenau is the most scary place I have ever seen. You don't hear an animal not one. There's trees and lush grass... growing on the ashes of thousands, using the ashes as fertile ground.
We lighted a candle together at the ruins of the gas chambers and prayed together. It was then that a miracle happened. As soon as I said "Amen", a flock of birds came and sat down, singing, in a nearby tree. They left soon thereafter, but the eerie silence of the place had been broken for a few seconds.
All this suffering, only because some twisted german heads wanted to create a master race...
And now I am reminded of that every time I think of the Synthesis ending!
To clarify: This seems an extreme post, but I just want to explain my feelings towards the holocaust. Mass Effect 3 is still a pretty good game, but I like the ending less and less. And now I especially hate the endings for shoving down the Reaper ideology down my throat. I really would like that Refuse ending now, even if it can only end in extinction. Sadly I have to say, that of these three destroy is till the least worst option even though I hate the genocide part of it.
I find the atrocities the Reapers commit equally as disturbing as those done by the third Reich, but I know it's just a video game.
Now I have the strange urge to play a WWII game and shoot some goosestepping goons.
I have been to Auschwitz and to the much worse Auschwitz Birkenau. I saw what my people - the germans - did there.
I cried when I saw the shoes of thousands of kids, thrown on a pile by the SS.
I was there with a jewish friend of mine and I couldn't look him into the eye. I could only say "I'm so sorry" again and again.
He hugged me and helped me through the whole ordeal of watching the atrocities that were committed there. Birkenau is the most scary place I have ever seen. You don't hear an animal not one. There's trees and lush grass... growing on the ashes of thousands, using the ashes as fertile ground.
We lighted a candle together at the ruins of the gas chambers and prayed together. It was then that a miracle happened. As soon as I said "Amen", a flock of birds came and sat down, singing, in a nearby tree. They left soon thereafter, but the eerie silence of the place had been broken for a few seconds.
All this suffering, only because some twisted german heads wanted to create a master race...
And now I am reminded of that every time I think of the Synthesis ending!
To clarify: This seems an extreme post, but I just want to explain my feelings towards the holocaust. Mass Effect 3 is still a pretty good game, but I like the ending less and less. And now I especially hate the endings for shoving down the Reaper ideology down my throat. I really would like that Refuse ending now, even if it can only end in extinction. Sadly I have to say, that of these three destroy is till the least worst option even though I hate the genocide part of it.
I find the atrocities the Reapers commit equally as disturbing as those done by the third Reich, but I know it's just a video game.
Now I have the strange urge to play a WWII game and shoot some goosestepping goons.
#823
Posté 27 mars 2012 - 01:09
Unlimited69x
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Shepard was always given a choice to disagree; like during the Genophage cure. If you really wanted to stop Mordin then the game allows you to shoot him.
#824
Posté 27 mars 2012 - 01:12
NikitaDarkstar
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I didn't exactly consider the ending racist at the time, but I can see OP's point of view without much of an issue.
I just thought the SC was butthurt over his race creating AI's millions of years ago and ending up going to war with them (much like the quarians and geth) and losing, and figured "Well we were the best race there's ever gonna be and if we couldn't do it no one can, so instead of being reasonable about it lets just assume it can't be done."
I just thought the SC was butthurt over his race creating AI's millions of years ago and ending up going to war with them (much like the quarians and geth) and losing, and figured "Well we were the best race there's ever gonna be and if we couldn't do it no one can, so instead of being reasonable about it lets just assume it can't be done."
#825
Posté 27 mars 2012 - 01:16
Xandurpein
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While I would perhaps not use as strong words as the OP, I certainly sympathize with a lot of what he says. The whole idea of synthesis as "the pinnacle of evolution" is flawed and offensive, especially as the green beam itself has absolutely nothing to do with evolution at all. In fact, the whole reason for all the Reapers crimes are specifically to halt or minimize evolution. Calling something that is in effect divine intervention "the pinnacle of evolution" smacks of Orwellian 1984 speech.
Modifié par Xandurpein, 27 mars 2012 - 01:18 .
