1086 réponses à ce sujet

[Kamuchi]

Haven`t read all the comments, but i`ll add my humble opinion

After trying all the options (the horror), all i wanted to do is tell that wacko AI to go to hell and finish what it started lol

No matter wich option you took, you made every signle mass relay go super nova, whiping out half the galaxy, cut off all races and not to mention, feed fest frenzy on earth with 3000 ships of all races there

I`d rather have had the option "Go to hell" and Shep saying "Destroy half the galaxy? Does not compute!" and shoot him/her self in the head and a cut scene of the next shadow broker take place as citadel council

The only reason to believe this is an indoctrination failure is, if it isn`t, it is the biggest cluster**** in gaming history and selling the game with tv commercials "take back earth!" is a blatant lie to majority of the fan base, THAT is offensive

You didn`t take back earth, you got fried by Harbinger, talked to some stupid AI and commited suicide with your choice

OR

You got fried by Harbinger, talked to some stupid AI, commited suicide in a dream and wake up roasted to death WHILE the reapers are still happily on a killing spree, and you need to buy the real end for $10

I`m offended alright

Modifié par Kamuchi, 03 avril 2012 - 01:54 .

[Wulfram]

Not sure if racist is the right word, but the message is certainly disturbing.

[Ashilana]

Animositisomina wrote...

lololol zomg dude, funny stuffs! Am you a komedienne? You shud take that act on der road!!11

Yeah, I read it. Yeah, he's nuts. Sorry if that bothers you. Kthx and bai.

Ah, so you follow up your rebuttal of the op (your profound claim that he must be on drugs) with a random set of jibberish. 

Thanks for stopping by.  

[Animositisomina]

Ashilana wrote...

Animositisomina wrote...

lololol zomg dude, funny stuffs! Am you a komedienne? You shud take that act on der road!!11

Yeah, I read it. Yeah, he's nuts. Sorry if that bothers you. Kthx and bai.

Ah, so you follow up your rebuttal of the op (your profound claim that he must be on drugs) with a random set of jibberish. 

Thanks for stopping by.  

You're welcome, mom! I'm glad you were able to take the time to pointlessly single me out and critique my tongue-in-cheek, innocuous little comment here on the internet. You do your family proud, I'm sure.

Modifié par Animositisomina, 03 avril 2012 - 02:15 .

[Alamar2078]

Any game that promotes destruction of diversity because A & B just can't get along really is smelling bad. When there are choices in the game WORSE than genocide we know the writers really put thought into what they were doing

I still chose Control anyway because that snotty Star Child just had to die


Edit:  I wonder what certain organizations would do if they found out there was a major game out there "promoting" elimination of diversity as a way to solve problems?? 

Modifié par Alamar2078, 03 avril 2012 - 02:14 .

[Avarenda]

I agree completely with OP. Thanks for laying it all out for people who may not have considered this angle.

[I_Jedi]

The ending clearly support speciesism!

http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Speciesism

[Ashilana]

Animositisomina wrote...

Ashilana wrote...

Animositisomina wrote...

lololol zomg dude, funny stuffs! Am you a komedienne? You shud take that act on der road!!11

Yeah, I read it. Yeah, he's nuts. Sorry if that bothers you. Kthx and bai.

Ah, so you follow up your rebuttal of the op (your profound claim that he must be on drugs) with a random set of jibberish. 

Thanks for stopping by.  

You're welcome, mom! I'm glad you were able to take the time to pointlessly single me out and critique my tongue-in-cheek, innocuous little comment here on the internet. You do your family proud, I'm sure.

Wow, first I was "dude", now I am "mom".   Not sure if I moved up or down on the scale of insults.  

Anyway, thanks for contributing your detailed thoughts on this matter.   Also, the extra bumps you gave this thread are greatly appreciated.

Modifié par Ashilana, 03 avril 2012 - 02:20 .

[Pedro Costa]

DaeJi wrote...

Very well written. I do not know if I agree, however I cannot say that your view is lacking in merit.

Couldn't have phrased it better.

Really interesting OP. Not completely sure if I stand by it, but given BioWare's stance on it being art (thus subject to actual critique and immersive thought on the message being sent), and the lead writer's desire for "lots of speculation for everyone", your analysis on the message it sends is far from the musings of a raving lunatic.

I thank you for this meal of thoughts.

[ShaneP]

I don't know what to say apart from... seriously?

Did anyone honestly expect the purpose of the reapers to be benign and harmless?

[Ashilana]

Alamar2078 wrote...

Any game that promotes destruction of diversity because A & B just can't get along really is smelling bad. When there are choices in the game WORSE than genocide we know the writers really put thought into what they were doing

I still chose Control anyway because that snotty Star Child just had to die


Edit:  I wonder what certain organizations would do if they found out there was a major game out there "promoting" elimination of diversity as a way to solve problems?? 

The folks who are doing the PR for the game seem to think they are the wronged party and that the inclusion of gay and lesbian characters in the third game means they are automatically progressive/good guys/etc.

I have a feeling that most organizations that would be upset by the message would probably just buy whatever line of bull%^&#  the PR department sent them.  Video games aren't really taken seriously by most folks.

[Heimdall]

KustomDeluxe wrote...

Synthesize and, y'know, remove the free-will and individual nature of every species & person/alien-person in the galaxy.

?

Where did you grab this idea from?  You do know that there is no Reaper technology involved in the process?

[Jarys]

You take this far, far too seriously. Yes, the ending was bad. No, the bad guy isn't an evil racist war criminal, he's just the sci-fi bad guy.

[Animositisomina]

Ashilana wrote...

Animositisomina wrote...

Ashilana wrote...

Animositisomina wrote...

lololol zomg dude, funny stuffs! Am you a komedienne? You shud take that act on der road!!11

Yeah, I read it. Yeah, he's nuts. Sorry if that bothers you. Kthx and bai.

Ah, so you follow up your rebuttal of the op (your profound claim that he must be on drugs) with a random set of jibberish. 

Thanks for stopping by.  

You're welcome, mom! I'm glad you were able to take the time to pointlessly single me out and critique my tongue-in-cheek, innocuous little comment here on the internet. You do your family proud, I'm sure.

Wow, first I was "dude", now I am "mom".   Not sure if I moved up or down on the scale of insults.  

Anyway, thanks for contributing your detailed thoughts on this matter.   Also, the extra bumps you gave this thread are greatly appreciated.

Seriously, why bother to single me out from everyone else in this entire thread and continue to personally attack me? I was making a stupid, harmless joke, and you go all White Knight on me, coming to the heroic defense of the OP. I'm sure they don't need you to fight their battles for them (especially given that there is no fight to be fought here). I mean if the point is just that you're a d-bag, fine, I get it. Can we move on now?

Thanks. <3

[tomcplotts]

it's not racist, it's misanthropic and nihilistic. it also is elitist, in that it views ordinary sentients incapable of good judgment, which probably reflects corporate classism. It's a lot of things, most bad, but amazingly, it's not actually racist. The series does two things very well in my opinion: it supports a diverse, biologically-grounded view of sexuality and it promotes race and species transcendance in relations. it's bad writing, ultimately, because the issues were more complex than the writers were capable of addressing coherently. It happens.

[Ashilana]

Animositisomina wrote...
Seriously, why bother to single me out from everyone else in this entire thread and continue to personally attack me? I was making a stupid, harmless joke, and you go all White Knight on me, coming to the heroic defense of the OP. I'm sure they don't need you to fight their battles for them (especially given that there is no fight to be fought here). I mean if the point is just that you're a d-bag, fine, I get it. Can we move on now?
Thanks. <3

Actually, I think the point was that you were belittling the op... and a lot of people wander into this thread post a pointless statement such as "you are an idiot", "race card, wtf" etc and then wander off.

If you had given even the slightest explaination for your impression that the op must be on drugs, I wouldn't have bothered to be critical.

But anyways, thanks for the bumps.  A whole bunch of new people got to read and respond to this thread.

[Animositisomina]

Ashilana wrote...

Animositisomina wrote...
Seriously, why bother to single me out from everyone else in this entire thread and continue to personally attack me? I was making a stupid, harmless joke, and you go all White Knight on me, coming to the heroic defense of the OP. I'm sure they don't need you to fight their battles for them (especially given that there is no fight to be fought here). I mean if the point is just that you're a d-bag, fine, I get it. Can we move on now?
Thanks. <3

Actually, I think the point was that you were belittling the op... and a lot of people wander into this thread post a pointless statement such as "you are an idiot", "race card, wtf" etc and then wander off.

If you had given even the slightest explaination for your impression that the op must be on drugs, I wouldn't have bothered to be critical.

But anyways, thanks for the bumps.  A whole bunch of new people got to read and respond to this thread.

Not sure why you're obsessed with bumps, it's not your thread. But ok.

[Ashilana]

Animositisomina wrote...

Ashilana wrote...

Actually, I think the point was that you were belittling the op... and a lot of people wander into this thread post a pointless statement such as "you are an idiot", "race card, wtf" etc and then wander off.

If you had given even the slightest explaination for your impression that the op must be on drugs, I wouldn't have bothered to be critical.

But anyways, thanks for the bumps.  A whole bunch of new people got to read and respond to this thread.

Not sure why you're obsessed with bumps, it's not your thread. But ok.

I just happen to agree with the op and I think it is an important perspective on why the endings might offend people. 

Often when people are offended by something on a moral level they have difficulty in explaining their reaction.  There was a really neat NYTimes article on this topic a while back (can't seem to find the link atm), how people react viscerally to things that they find "wrong" and usually rationalize an explaination later.

I think the sense of relief that many people express in their responses to this thread is based on how comforting it can be to find out that others reacted in a similar way.

[Elvwood]

OP I found this Post very interesting.
I cannot say if this was intentional by the Dev's but you do bring up some Valid points
I found that before I read this post there was something in the back of my mind that just didn't sit right
and I think you identified what it was.


On a side note can anyone please answer this one question for me
If the crucible was created and built upon by past civilizations
Why would they create a device that destroys all the relays and possibly wipe out every solar system
within close proximity to those relays.
The Godchild was a catalyst He was not the device so where did the insane choices come from

[clipped_wolf]

Kinda agree with OP. The writers did not intend to create the ending this way, but yeah, the end forces you to accept the mentality and justifications of some real ethnic cleansings and genocides. It sounds extreme, but the "it's only a game" is a silly stance akin to "it's only an idea".
How many times in the last 40 years has the West stood by apathetic or inactive to the mass murders of the world?
Yikes, found myself on OPs soap box, but yeah, totally see where that angry post came from.

[Heimdall]

tomcplotts wrote...

it's not racist, it's misanthropic and nihilistic. it also is elitist, in that it views ordinary sentients incapable of good judgment, which probably reflects corporate classism. It's a lot of things, most bad, but amazingly, it's not actually racist. The series does two things very well in my opinion: it supports a diverse, biologically-grounded view of sexuality and it promotes race and species transcendance in relations. it's bad writing, ultimately, because the issues were more complex than the writers were capable of addressing coherently. It happens.

I don't see it as nihilistic or elitism, or at leasy elitism as you describe.  Why wouldn't a millions of year old construct not veiw itself as more intelligent than little organics a tiny fraction of it's age?  We see ourselves as more intelligent than animals and small children and tell them what's best for them.  Why assume Bioware was trying to say the Catalyst was right?  As far as the endings are concerned, whether or not the Catalyst is objectively correct is beside the point and irrelevant.  How is it elitist?

[Ashilana]

clipped_wolf wrote...

Kinda agree with OP. The writers did not intend to create the ending this way, but yeah, the end forces you to accept the mentality and justifications of some real ethnic cleansings and genocides. It sounds extreme, but the "it's only a game" is a silly stance akin to "it's only an idea".
How many times in the last 40 years has the West stood by apathetic or inactive to the mass murders of the world?
Yikes, found myself on OPs soap box, but yeah, totally see where that angry post came from.

If you aren't careful you might find yourself checking in on this thread in coming days... darn soapbox, why are you so tempting?

[Orthodox Infidel]

Ziggeh wrote...

While Shepard could have done a better job of countering his perspective, it's really very silly to suggest that the villain of the piece is it's intended spokesmen. Yes, he's attempting to justify genocide, this is because he's the villain and we're supposed to understand that the genocide is wrong and therefor his justification, not think "oh, well, his logic is sound, better get some killing in". He's presenting something evil because he's evil, that's his role.

This is a truly basic misunderstanding of storytelling. A story that includes Hitler as it's villain isn't vile and racist because he's the villain.

It's also a complete failure of storytelling on Bioware's part. They introduce THE VILLIAN in the last five minutes, and don't offer you any sort of chance to defeat him. I put those two words in bolded italicied capital letters because he's supposed to be causing of all the horrible things we've seen across all three games. Then they don't give us the opportunity to defeat him; all "victories" offered are ones that he provides. In at least one out of three, maybe two out of three, of the endings he gets away with his villiany scot-free. It looks like he gets defeated in the Destroy ending (he seems to flash out of existence in a burst of static), but the price for that is a lot higher than most people are willing to pay, and it's suggested by the game mechanics that this is the least desirable ending.

Thirdly: Racism is believing that the differences between people can justify discrimination.

Or violence.

But he's not saying they're wrong or bad or different or coming over here and stealing our jobs, he's saying they will rebel. And they will rebel not because they are different as people, but because of the relationship with their creators. As a creation they are not free, as individuals they will seek freedom, this seeking will lead to conflict, such a conflict will eventually lead to the loss of all organic life.

I know you don't necessarily accept all of his claims to be true, as you've already stated you consider him the villian, but do you really accept this at face value? There's no reason to believe that the certain outcome of synthetic life is that all organic life everywhere will be lost, for reasons I've probably argued earlier in this thread.

[Ashilana]

Lord Aesir wrote...

I don't see it as nihilistic or elitism, or at leasy elitism as you describe.  Why wouldn't a millions of year old construct not veiw itself as more intelligent than little organics a tiny fraction of it's age?  We see ourselves as more intelligent than animals and small children and tell them what's best for them.  Why assume Bioware was trying to say the Catalyst was right?  As far as the endings are concerned, whether or not the Catalyst is objectively correct is beside the point and irrelevant.  How is it elitist?

I bolded a couple lines.  I think this was kind of the heart of what the op was trying to bring attention to.  Since you have no choice but to collaborate with the starchild/catalyst... it means that Shep has agreed that what it is saying must be true.