1086 réponses à ce sujet

[Skull Bearer]

As a side ramble: Writers for
PnP modules occassionally fall into the same trap, giving an outline for
an encounter that goes along the lines of "Bad guys attack the village
and everyone surrenders. Move the player-characters along to where they
are holding all the other hostages. The heroes can then attempt to break
out"...

No.

Actually, what the Ending of ME3 reminds me most of is some PnP RPG's I was translating some years ago, in which every adventure- every adventure- ended up being made worse due to the characters' participation. Considering the Mass Relay explosion holocaust in the ending, I can't help but think that's appropriate here.

That RPG was also massively sickening on moral ground as well...

Hmm, I wonder...

[Petrikles]

This is my favourite thread on the citadel.

[Halberd96]

Oh no, how does this thread have 40 pages?

No offence but this topic idea is almost as stupid as the white nationalist theory that the Jews are behind everything bad in the world...in other words you are pretty much connecting things together that aren't true because of your hate/anger/frustration for something (in this case the ME 3 endings and/or Bioware or EA)

Modifié par Halberd96, 03 avril 2012 - 01:37 .

[Merwanor]

I did not read all the OP wrote, but I also found it very wierd that my Shepard did not have an option to say to the starchild that this is not acceptable, any of these options is not acceptable. And that we should rather fight to the death than listen to a genocidal maniac. This is one of the main reasons I hate the ending, it makes no sense that Shepard would even concider any of these endings or the logic of this evil being.

[leeboi2]

ESS TEE EFF YOU!

[Baine10]

Guys, read what he typed. Clearly, he has put a lot of thought into the "lots of speculation" ending which Bioware has cooked up for us.

If you cannot meaningfully contribute, don't. You look and sound like an idiot when you do.

On topic, OP is justified to think what he wants, but I lack the train of thought to agree with him. The ending is offensive, that much is true to me.

[Escocido]

The OP could be summarized in a nutshell:

The ending sucks because the bad guys get away with genocide and you can't even call them out on it. Using the OPs analogy is as if Indy said in the middle of the Lost Ark: "Well, you know, this Hitler guy has a point" and just gave him the Ark and proper instructions on how to use it.

I do not think it's racist, though, it's simply stupid or, if it truly reflects the vision of the writers, quite antitechnological (which is one of the big themes of Mass Effect anyway, don't accept every technology you see, you don't know where it's been).

[Baronesa]

Escocido wrote...

The OP could be summarized in a nutshell:

The ending sucks because the bad guys get away with genocide and you can't even call them out on it. Using the OPs analogy is as if Indy said in the middle of the Lost Ark: "Well, you know, this Hitler guy has a point" and just gave him the Ark and proper instructions on how to use it.

I do not think it's racist, though, it's simply stupid or, if it truly reflects the vision of the writers, quite antitechnological (which is one of the big themes of Mass Effect anyway, don't accept every technology you see, you don't know where it's been).

Good analogy.

More than racist, it is bigoted... xenophocic... maybe even technofobic.. but in the end all of that amounts to bigotry. Some people just got too hung up in words without even reading.

[thefallen2far]

I think the min problem with the OP is that he uses the word "racist" instead of comparing it to racism. Racist is a sensitive term that gets thrown around way too much.... and this is definately not racism. Racism is judgement based on different race amongst humans. It's true that this starchild causes xenocide and genocide. It is true that not many people liked the ending and I myself never made "the choice", I refuse to make it.

Also, I think the term for someone who fears technology is a ludite.

[Mr Indivisible]

I love this thread.

Also the ending is more fascist then racist, particularly the synthesis ending. Replace technological synthesis with The Party, and you have Hitler.

Just because the whole galaxy is synthetic/biological, doesn't mean ****, people are still going to fight and war.

[Petrikles]

Ups, wrong thread, nevermind.

Modifié par Kailord, 03 avril 2012 - 02:47 .

[Orumon]

Sound argument from the OP. However, don't expect BW to take it on board.

[Ashilana]

Orumon wrote...

Sound argument from the OP. However, don't expect BW to take it on board.

It does seem that Bioware is under the impression they can "clarify" the endings...which implies that they don't have any comprehension of underlying problems.

[SerraAdvocate]

Sameness does not produce peace.

[ed87]

This is part of the reason why i didnt take anything away from the ending. It was all rubbish

[Ultra Prism]

this is post is really good ... the masters of reapers tries disguise itself using childform so shepard won't feel i guess wow or shocked

[pomrink]

It's kinda weird to see a so called "progressive" company advocating ludditism and genocide ain't it?

[Ashilana]

pomrink wrote...

It's kinda weird to see a so called "progressive" company advocating ludditism and genocide ain't it?

I really don't think they realize what they did.  They seriously seem to believe they were just misunderstood. 

Unfortunately the occasional homophobic rant on the forums or twitter seems to be enough to innoculate Bioware against bothering to try and understand what upsets so many of their customers.

[GodlessPaladin]

KustomDeluxe wrote...

That was undoubtedly the most disturbing part the "Synthesis" ending held for me.

I mean, honestly you had:
Destroy and commit genocide on Geth/AI
Control and compromise morals in name of "greater good" (a slippery slope justification at its finest)
Synthesize and, y'know, remove the free-will and individual nature of every species & person/alien-person in the galaxy.
...
...
Yay for genocide and dictatorship I guess?

Also, Shepard suddenly becomes stupid and witless at the ending.

ME1/Virmire: Shepard to godlike figure Sovereign: "I'll find a way to stop you"
ME2/Arrival: Shepard to godlike figure Harbinger: "We will find a way to stop you"
ME3/Citadel: Shepard to godlike figure Catalyst:" Yes, I believe everything you say in spite of overwhelming evidence to the contrary and everything about my personality throughout the rest of the series. Just tell me what to do, just so long as I can choose the color of the explosion."

The idea that the "synethesis" ending is a "good" ending just seems not only preposterous from any moral angle, but to run counter to everything the series was building towards philosophically in its presentation.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 03 avril 2012 - 07:00 .

[ChaosKing01]

Dude, I think you have something

[Yearlongjester]

It may be a tad racist, but the general attitude of ME3 kinda was too. Oh god the entire galaxy is under attack from metal space Cthulhu! Quick all you aliens, come help the HUMANS!

[Baronesa]

Yearlongjester wrote...

It may be a tad racist, but the general attitude of ME3 kinda was too. Oh god the entire galaxy is under attack from metal space Cthulhu! Quick all you aliens, come help the HUMANS!

Ugh don't remind me... I HATED the Earth-centric stupidity... I honestly was hoping to sacrifice Earth in order to save the rest of the Galaxy.

That way you surely carve the place for humanity deeply... sacrifice homeworld to keep Galactic Civilization alive. That would have beena  lot more epic. Sure eventually Earth would have become habitable etc.. but the immediate shock of that would have been great... I wanted to save the Galaxy, not just Earth... that part of the argument was MAJOR fail

[jfruelas521]

You make a surprisingly coherent argument. I have to say that I hadn't considered that aspect but now that you bring it up, I can see your point. More reasons why the ending need to be rewritten.

[stargatefan1990]

spartan5127 wrote...

Yet another reason why this ending goes against a prevalent theme throughout the entire series. That is, tolerance. You spend the whole game telling people to get along and then this brat comes out and says that synthetics will rise against you because they are synthetics. How about we cross that bridge when we come to it because it is clearly shown that being synthetic does not prevent them from coexisting with organics.

Agreed (only on page 2 so yeah....lol)

[stargatefan1990]

Ainyan42 wrote...

I agree.

I won't lie, I was tired of the whole 'AIs will destroy the human race' card long before it was done in the Matrix or any of the similar movies of that time. It's not a new theme - it's been around for decades, and enjoyed huge popularity in the 1950s and 1960s. I used to wish for a book or a movie that would show AIs and humans working together - not as servant and master (another common theme), but as two races in tune with each other.

In fact, one of the biggest reasons I loved the Mass Effect series was the fact that they went in the opposite direction: synthetics (the Geth) only attacked organics (the Quarians) when they themselves were attacked for achieving sentience. One of the most defining moments out of any of the games for me was meeting Legion - a second was achieving peace between the Geth and the Quarians. I think that's one of the things that has crushed me the most about the ending. They went a full 180 on what I considered a rather enlightened view of the man vs. AI debate and instead dove into waters that have not only been fully explored, but exploited by writers, directors, and game makers for decades.

And the AI vs. Man debate has always been about racism and slavery. It's been a way to talk about racism and slavery all the way back to when talking about racism and slavery was taboo. And while I doubt that the writers of Mass Effect 3 were thinking about this when they wrote the end, the fact is - they give you three choices: genocide, slavery, or the removal of free-will. None of them satisfying, not to me.

Be scared of the Synthetic! is an outdated Concept, thats one of the reasons i really Enjoy mass effect and it has been said to death why i hated the choices and lack of being able to fight against it, great post