1086 réponses à ce sujet

[improperdancing]

ubermensch007 wrote...

If we fans have a right to be mad with BioWare about anything, it is that they did not provide us with enough opportunities to prove Javik wrong...

Actually, I think it would be more that a lot of players didn't even get to listen to Javik because he was pulled from the original game to sell as DLC.

[alayyubi]

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

My instinct when I see bombastic statements and colorful language as well as most uses of Hitler, genocide, and the like to make a point is to ignore it.

But this OP makes too much goddam sense and I actually agree a lot with it, even if it does overuse real world examples and terminology.

Even more reason why the ending is a fail it if was intentional.

Interesting take to the 3 choices - I am with your 1st instinct - it is still a game, and as game goes, u shudn't take it literally. Heck, in most games I just shoot or steal without remorse - is game condoning these ? No, it is fiction.

still the Starchild ending is out of place

[PsyrenY]

Evil_medved wrote...

You reapers are all racist.

[Arppis]

Racist? Hm....

I thought they took down all the races, not just one or two?

[Astralify]

The ending smells like illuminati...

[granyte]

Arppis wrote...

Racist? Hm....

I thought they took down all the races, not just one or two?

call it xenophibia then but technicaly it's the catalyst who is technophobe ... i just realised the ironay an AI technophobe

oh god the more i think about it the less sence it makes let;s hope the extended cut will fix this

Modifié par granyte, 08 avril 2012 - 08:10 .

[Asrayl]

It bothers me that I find myself agreeing with you. I don't like agreeing with you on this, but you make a very persuasive case, OP. Implications.... disturbing.

[PowerExtreme]

Good read OP

[nightsinger]

Definately a good read. Thanks for sharing your thoughts, OP. This thread deserves to stay at the top.

*bump*

[K_Tabris]

Tbh, this is why I initially chose the synthesis ending. Why work so hard to get the Geth and Quarians to work together, if you are just going to wipe them out? If each Reaper is the leftover of an entire species, isn't it just as bad to wipe them out as it is for the Reapers to continue harvesting?

Yes, my logic may be flawed, I don't give a care. What intrigued me the most about the synthesis ending the promise of peace among all types of species. I don't think this was a second Reaper-win ending. I thought it was an ending where every side won.

It's really the only ending that doesn't commit a type of genocide.

Of course, all of the endings suck anyway, but that's another topic >_>

[CronoDragoon]

NovinhaShepard wrote...

Tbh, this is why I initially chose the synthesis ending. Why work so hard to get the Geth and Quarians to work together, if you are just going to wipe them out? If each Reaper is the leftover of an entire species, isn't it just as bad to wipe them out as it is for the Reapers to continue harvesting?

Yes, my logic may be flawed, I don't give a care. What intrigued me the most about the synthesis ending the promise of peace among all types of species. I don't think this was a second Reaper-win ending. I thought it was an ending where every side won.

It's really the only ending that doesn't commit a type of genocide.

Of course, all of the endings suck anyway, but that's another topic >_>

Control doesn't commit genocide. I also don't believe synthesis brings peace. Now instead of organics creating synthetics that will kill them we have hybrids creating synthetics that will kill them.

[K_Tabris]

Control ends the cycle half-way through, with the condition that the Reapers will return in another 50,000 years.

I'm not sure where you get that the new synthetics will now control the reapers.

[CronoDragoon]

NovinhaShepard wrote...

Control ends the cycle half-way through, with the condition that the Reapers will return in another 50,000 years.

I'm not sure where you get that the new synthetics will now control the reapers.

?

After the first sentence I was talking about the synthesis ending. Unless the new hybrids are basically gods that can satisfy their needs instantaneously, they will still need machines and eventually AI. So I don't believe synthesis prevents any wars.

[MorSterling]

I can agree with the reapers creator is racist as they are evil.

But why oh why do WE have to accept his reasoning?

[Zine2]

MorSterling wrote...

But why oh why do WE have to accept his reasoning?

That is really the crux of the issue- Implicit acceptance of the Star Child's reasoning. Weekes is gonna have to pull something brillant to "clarify" this so that there is no longer an implicity acceptance; I haven't come up with any yet.

[kaskouka]

You made a good point OP.

That's what bothered me the most with the ending, to not be able to reject his nonsensical and racist bullsh*t. Damn, I've just spend around 3 hours to make the geth full sentient beings and achieved peace between them and the Quarians and I can't argue with space-Hitler about it ?

No, I'm just forced to agree with him in 3 atrocious ways :
- kill my friends the Geths and EDI
- make all being in the galaxy a "Suprême Race" without their consent
- or take control of the reapers with a chance of being turned into what I fought against during the whole damn trilogy in the future.

No, thanks, I didn't ask for this.

Modifié par kaskouka, 09 avril 2012 - 02:54 .

[Bad King]

Is this a troll thread?

[Xannerz]

From my impression, you're complaining about a bad guy being bad. The ending was just a mess... not more to it, imo.

[Baronesa]

Uhmmm this is funny...

Many have argued that the term "racism" does not apply here... yet, this argument is made in game on the codex.

Make a search for Artificial Intelligence on the codex and you'll find this gem:

"Advocacy groups argue, however, that an AI is a living, conscious entity deserving the same rights as organics. They argue that continued use of the term "artificial" is institutionalized racism on the part of organic life; the term "synthetic" is considered the politically correct alternative."


So, even in game discriminating against synthetics is considered racist...

Modifié par Baronesa, 09 avril 2012 - 01:56 .

[jbauck]

alayyubi wrote...

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

My instinct when I see bombastic statements and colorful language as well as most uses of Hitler, genocide, and the like to make a point is to ignore it.

But this OP makes too much goddam sense and I actually agree a lot with it, even if it does overuse real world examples and terminology.

Even more reason why the ending is a fail it if was intentional.

Interesting take to the 3 choices - I am with your 1st instinct - it is still a game, and as game goes, u shudn't take it literally. Heck, in most games I just shoot or steal without remorse - is game condoning these ? No, it is fiction.

still the Starchild ending is out of place

But the "racism" interpretation isn't taking it literally ... at PAX, the writers talked about how Tali is racist in ME1, and that her arc and character growth over the three games involves overcoming her racist attitudes about the Geth.  The Geth/Quarian conflict is used, in 2.9 games, as a metaphor for racism ... and suddenly at the end we're not supposed to think of organic/synthetic conflict in terms of racism?

I'm not saying BW writers are racist, but I am saying that they dropped their own racism metaphor.  You can't fault people for viewing this ending as racist, and the Catalyst as worse-than-Hitler, when the genocidal monster spouts stuff that the racist character in ME1 said to justify its actions, and the "hero" only gets to nod and go along with an argument that they've been able to reject in the past.  The ending isn't intentionally racist, but that is the unfortunate implication of ignoring its own use of metaphor up to that point.

[Jayleia]

It's quite obvious that synthetic life is life. It's just not naturally occurring, that's the ONLY difference.

To say that all synthetics have to be eliminated because its the only way to destroy the Reapers is one thing. To say that synthetics are inferior forms of life by their origin, and thus we should kill ALL of them to preserve some of us...that's exactly what a certain short corporal with a funny mustache thought.

Sorry, I didn't play 100 hours to become Space Hitler's detonator for his Old Only Solution.

Also sorry, I didn't play 100 hours to become Space Mengele's virus for his New Final Solution.

Also sorry, I didn't play 100 hours to become Space Hitler's Goring, running his empire.

And yes, that's about how I see the endings.

[EDIT:  And that's in addition to all the OTHER problems too.  And then to not even be able to ask about the details of the choices?  Much less be able to protest?  He just lets you choose how your spiffy, evil overlord uniform is tailored]

Modifié par Jayleia, 09 avril 2012 - 02:34 .

[LadyWench]

I can see how this might be interpreted as a very controversial or even derisive viewpoint, but I think you have a valid argument.

I've always agreed that the ending goes against the "different is beautiful and better for everyone" doctrine that has been preached to the players through the whole series, up until Catalyst brat makes his appearance. I think you really broke down the reasons WHY it doesn't sit well very clearly.

[KeldorKatarn]

Bump, because this is one of the big reason why this ending stinks.

[a.m.p]

OP, thank's for the post. I'm trying to figure out a viable compromise to fix the endings here, going to reference this in the "why it needs fixing" section.

[Ashilana]

LadyWench wrote...

I can see how this might be interpreted as a very controversial or even derisive viewpoint, but I think you have a valid argument.

It is one of those "what has been seen, cannot be unseen" kind of situations.  Those who perceived this issue (or at least felt some sub-conscious disgust at what was going on) find the endings beyond "clarification".