145 réponses à ce sujet

[starmine76]

  One of the most profound moments in any video game is in ME 1 where you briefly get to choose whether or not your character believed in God. 

Like quite a few others, I chose yes, not only because of my own beliefs but because the Idea of a hero in a blockbuster sci-fi epic who actually had deeply held religious convictions was interesting to me. To my dismay, this concept was never picked up on again after ME1, except for a brief mention of prayer in Ashley's letter. Not only was it never mentioned again, some of the things Shepard says in ME3 actually contradicts his religious beliefs. Comments about evolution which imply his agreement with it, moments where Shepard will positively comment on a very non-religious philosophy, the fact that your disscusions with Ashley never mention faith, the game never takes into account what YOUR Shepard believes and that's disappointing. 

Belief in God is just another strong reason for Shepard to defy the reaper's bleak ideology. I just wish NBoware had realized that.

Edit: Just to clarify you don't have subscribe to any spiritual beliefs to support this idea. This is about Bioware not following through on player choice, not your own convictions

Modifié par starmine76, 16 mars 2012 - 05:01 .

[Lumenadducere]

Religion in the ME universe seems to be more of a personal thing rather than anything else. I think given the truncated dialog in general Shepard's beliefs are things that we as a player will have to fill in for. And I definitely don't recall any conversations that would contradict that - maybe your current beliefs set in this time period, but one can imagine that 200 years from now some religions will change to incorporate new knowledge.

Take, for example, the evolution bit. It's not hard to rectify belief in both a deity and evolution - plenty of religious people in this day and age do it, and I'd be willing to bet that if we ever discover new life forms in our galaxy, more people would at that point as well. It depends on how literal a belief in a specific religion your Shepard has, but given a setting in which multiple sentient species abound - most of which have wildly differing religious beliefs - a Shepard who adheres strictly to a modern-day interpretation of any religion doesn't really seem to fit.

YMMV, a grain of salt, etc.

[Naltair]

Yeah I was going to say, Shepard can be spiritual and still understand and even adhere to scientific principles and theory.

They are not mutually exclusive.

[finc.loki]

I thank the flying spaghetti monster that they dropped religion.
Any species capable of interstellar travel would have ditched that fantasy long ago.
Now if only that could happen here today on earth as well.

Don't worry though, the Asari "thanks the goddess" all the time.

Disclaimer:
Yes my comment is my own personal view, people are free to believe whatever they want.
Personally I stick to Science and logic/common sense.

Also I think Religion and Science is EXTREMLY mutually exclusive...

Religion and a general belief in Deity is very different. One is dogma and tries to tell "how it is" Noah's ark, earth being 6000 years old, need I say more.

Being a Deist is simply a belief that there is or might be a "higher power/entity" so that is different.

Yes, it's  pretty obvious I'm an Atheist.

Modifié par finc.loki, 16 mars 2012 - 04:47 .

[Gallimatia]

As an atheist it bothered me that Shepard is religious by default. Specifically he or she belives in free will. I can't identify with a characther that belives in the super natural.

[starmine76]

[quote]finc.loki wrote...

I thank the flying spaghetti monster that they dropped religion.
Any species capable of interstellar travel would have ditched that fantasy long ago.
Now if only that could happen here today on earth as well.

Don't worry though, the Asari "thanks the goddess" all the 

Okay, cool, that's your belief, and you are free to play Shep as someone who shows no religious inclination whatsoever. But Isn't it all about player choice? Bioware worked hard to get same sex relationships into the game (which I'm totally cool with, BTW, I'm always ok with giving players more options) but they ignore the idea of Shepard being a man/woman of faith?

[kalash442]

Shepard dosent need religion, he is religion.

[Sdrol117]

No thanks.

[finc.loki]

starmine76 wrote... 
Okay, cool, that's your belief, and you are free to play Shep as someone who shows no religious inclination whatsoever. But Isn't it all about player choice? Bioware worked hard to get same sex relationships into the game (which I'm totally cool with, BTW, I'm always ok with giving players more options) but they ignore the idea of Shepard being a man/woman of faith?

The same sex is optional.
A spiritual Shepard that makes religous remarks in his dialogue would not be optional.
Or  do you think they should make dialogue that especially talks about religion and then you get a choice that is yes I believe or No I don't belive in god.
Which option should be renegade or paragon?

Also they have romances in their games, so leaving out a sexual preference is far more worse and detrimental than simply avoiding religion and belief in it or NOT in it.

It's not like they are making dialogue where Shepard is running around professing he is an Atheist or something.
It just is not brought up.
But Bioware is smart in that they allow some spirituality in the other races instead like the aforementioned "Thank the goddess" Liara says etc.

They are simply trying to avoid religious arguments and how people believe different things.
They don't want to force the issue one way or the other.

Which is why this thread will soon be locked, I think, cause they don't want politics and religious discussions, they tend to derail.

Modifié par finc.loki, 16 mars 2012 - 05:03 .

[starmine76]

finc.loki wrote...

starmine76 wrote... 
Okay, cool, that's your belief, and you are free to play Shep as someone who shows no religious inclination whatsoever. But Isn't it all about player choice? Bioware worked hard to get same sex relationships into the game (which I'm totally cool with, BTW, I'm always ok with giving players more options) but they ignore the idea of Shepard being a man/woman of faith?

The same sex is optional.
A spiritual Shepard that makes religous remarks in his dialogue would not be optional.
Or  do you think they should make dialogue that especially talks about religion and then you get a choice that is yes I believe or No I don't belive in god.
Which option should be renegade or paragon?

Also they have romances in their games, so leaving out a sexual preference is far more worse and detrimental than simply avoiding religion and belief in it or NOT in it.

It's not like they are making dialogue where Shepard is running around professing he is an Atheist or something.
It just is not brought up.
But Bioware is smart in that they allow some spirituality in the other races instead like the aforementioned "Thank the goddess" Liara says etc.

They are simply trying to avoid religious arguments and how people believe different things.
They don't want to force the issue one way or the other.

Which is why this thread will soon be locked, I think, cause they don't want politics and religious discussions, they tend to derail.

Im not asking for automated responses that force Shepard to be religious, I'm just asking that Bioware give us the ability to play him that way if we wish. Especially in a ga,e so focused on morality, I don't see anything wrong or offensive with that.

[Han Shot First]

My Shepard chose the option where Shepard asks Ashley is she's heard the old saw about there not being any atheists in foxholes, and then replying that he has been in a lot of foxholes.

He believes there is something greater than just his mortal existence, but I don't consider him religious. He may have gritted his death and muttered to himself, "Though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for Thou art with me" while weathering an artillery barrage, but he isn't devout and is more likely to spend his liberty in a bar than in a church.  

Gallimatia wrote...

As an atheist it bothered me that Shepard is religious by default. Specifically he or she belives in free will. I can't identify with a characther that belives in the super natural.

He has dialogue options with Ashley that indicate he doesn't share her beliefs. So that isn't true. Whether or not Shepard belongs to any particular religion or is an atheist or an agnostic is entirely up to the player.

Modifié par Han Shot First, 16 mars 2012 - 05:11 .

[finc.loki]

starmine76 wrote...

finc.loki wrote...

starmine76 wrote... 
Okay, cool, that's your belief, and you are free to play Shep as someone who shows no religious inclination whatsoever. But Isn't it all about player choice? Bioware worked hard to get same sex relationships into the game (which I'm totally cool with, BTW, I'm always ok with giving players more options) but they ignore the idea of Shepard being a man/woman of faith?

The same sex is optional.
A spiritual Shepard that makes religous remarks in his dialogue would not be optional.
Or  do you think they should make dialogue that especially talks about religion and then you get a choice that is yes I believe or No I don't belive in god.
Which option should be renegade or paragon?

Also they have romances in their games, so leaving out a sexual preference is far more worse and detrimental than simply avoiding religion and belief in it or NOT in it.

It's not like they are making dialogue where Shepard is running around professing he is an Atheist or something.
It just is not brought up.
But Bioware is smart in that they allow some spirituality in the other races instead like the aforementioned "Thank the goddess" Liara says etc.

They are simply trying to avoid religious arguments and how people believe different things.
They don't want to force the issue one way or the other.

Which is why this thread will soon be locked, I think, cause they don't want politics and religious discussions, they tend to derail.

Im not asking for automated responses that force Shepard to be religious, I'm just asking that Bioware give us the ability to play him that way if we wish. Especially in a ga,e so focused on morality, I don't see anything wrong or offensive with that.

Then why don't you fantazise that YOUR Shepard is religious, why do you need for them to make dialogue about it?
So you want dialogue options that somehow spell out "god" as an option when talking..
How does that make sense, should they now twist their story to work in "god" into the equation.
I am an Atheist, you don't see me saying "hey I want an option to tell Liara and the other NPC's that talk about goddess etc, that I don't believe"

I see it as very offensive that you said "Especially a game focused so much on morality", see that is just a plain ignorant view point that "morality" is derived from religion.
Without even thinking you're implying that everyone like me that doesn't have a religion and a "god" are now immoral.
And you wonder why they avoid it?

To the poster above me.

No atheists in foxholes is an completely ignorant saying, also pure bull.
Yet again religious people implying that we all believe sooner or later bla bla bla.
I'm glad they don't have crap like that in this game, I know they had it a little in the first one and it rubbed me the wrong way.
Having stuff like that removes the option to play an RPG character the way you see it, him/her making choices they way you want it.
Somehow having it implied that Shepard is religious just removes everything for me, I might as well play reverend Falwell, Jesus etc.

Modifié par finc.loki, 16 mars 2012 - 10:12 .

[Cootie]

W-would...

G-guys, listen.
Guys.
H-hey guys.
H-hey guys listen, what if-

H-hey guys, what if being-
Guys.
He-hey guys, listen.

What if being religious was the Renegade option?

[vertigo72]

I think they realized that, because at the end Shepard becomes God (synthesis ending)

[Inquisitor Recon]

finc.loki wrote...
Ranting

Funny how atheists seem to get more offended by this sort of thing than the religious.

[Cootie]

ReconTeam wrote...

Funny how atheists seem to get more offended by this sort of thing than the religious.

I think the offended-ness was more of a response to the unintended arrogance of the other poster, more than anything.

I would've liked more opportunities to either confirm/affirm Shepard's belief or dismiss them as ancient easy-to-dismantle myths.
But I'll live.

Edit:
Worth noting is that if Shepard is to believe in some sort of divine intervention, the question rises;
Which religions do we include/exclude?

I believe this is a case of someone wanting to have their cake and eat it, too.

Modifié par Cootie, 16 mars 2012 - 10:25 .

[Moonshadow_Dark]

As a cult member of the Church of Foamy, I beg all of you:

SHUT THE <BLEEP> UP!

SERIOUSLY, MAN! I AM <BLEEP>ING TIRED OF YOU STUPID HUMANS BEING...STUPID!

2012, PEOPLE! 2012 WILL BE THE YEAR WE OPEN A CAN OF SQUIRRELLY WRATH!

EEEEEEEEEEEEEEE.......

For my Lord and Master.....FOAMY!

((FYI, for those who truly are dim, this is a gag. Not a personal attack. So unwind the panties, bro.))

Modifié par Moonshadow_Dark, 16 mars 2012 - 10:24 .

[killnoob]

starmine76 wrote...

  One of the most profound moments in any video game is in ME 1 where you briefly get to choose whether or not your character believed in God. 

Like quite a few others, I chose yes, not only because of my own beliefs but because the Idea of a hero in a blockbuster sci-fi epic who actually had deeply held religious convictions was interesting to me. To my dismay, this concept was never picked up on again after ME1, except for a brief mention of prayer in Ashley's letter. Not only was it never mentioned again, some of the things Shepard says in ME3 actually contradicts his religious beliefs. Comments about evolution which imply his agreement with it, moments where Shepard will positively comment on a very non-religious philosophy, the fact that your disscusions with Ashley never mention faith, the game never takes into account what YOUR Shepard believes and that's disappointing. 

Belief in God is just another strong reason for Shepard to defy the reaper's bleak ideology. I just wish NBoware had realized that.

Edit: Just to clarify you don't have subscribe to any spiritual beliefs to support this idea. This is about Bioware not following through on player choice, not your own convictions

Not sure if trolling.

If trolling: nice try sir, but you still have much to learn.

if not trolling:

• Bible Builder
• Break-Out The Bible
• Captain Bible in Dome of Darkness
• Computer Bible Games
• Dance Praise
• Dance Praise 2: The ReMix
• Exodus: Journey to the Promised Land
• King of Kings
• Left Behind: Eternal Forces
• Music Machine
• Noah's Ark (computer game)
• Original Dance Praise
• Pop & Rock Hits
• Spiritual Warfare
• Sunday Funday

You have so many choices to choose from and you have to play Mass Effect, a sci fi set in space with lots of aliens and techonology advanced robots?

[finc.loki]

ReconTeam wrote...

finc.loki wrote...
Ranting

Funny how atheists seem to get more offended by this sort of thing than the religious.

Funny how religious people take things out of context and usually have no basis or any facts, I mean after all it's called FAITH.

I was not ranting, I was pointing out that there should be NO religion and NO Atheism in the game, just status quo and the player can fantazise and play their character how THEY want it.

Also he was saying that the game is about "moral choices" thereby implying it has to have religion in it then cause somehow morals come from religion and therefore a person without god and religion, is immoral.
I'm certain he didn't say it to offend, it was clearly just ignorance.

[starmine76]

finc.loki wrote...

ReconTeam wrote...

finc.loki wrote...
Ranting

Funny how atheists seem to get more offended by this sort of thing than the religious.

Funny how religious people take things out of context and usually have no basis or any facts, I mean after all it's called FAITH.

I was not ranting, I was pointing out that there should be NO religion and NO Atheism in the game, just status quo and the player can fantazise and play their character how THEY want it.

Also he was saying that the game is about "moral choices" thereby implying it has to have religion in it then cause somehow morals come from religion and therefore a person without god and religion, is immoral.
I'm certain he didn't say it to offend, it was clearly just ignorance.

You completely missed my point, and for that I aplogize.

Firstly, I am not arguing about whether or not Religion should be in the game. It already is. In Mass Effect 1 you could choose through dilouge whether Shepard believed in God or not.  I am simply expressing dissapointment that Bioware never really followed through on that decision in further games, that perhaps if you had chosen that Shepard belived in God, there could be 1 or 2 brief dialouge changes in the game that would reflect that. Thats all I was asking for.

Secondly, about my comment on the significance of your Shepards religious beliefs due to the games focus on morality, I was only aluding to the fact that one's religious beliefs have an effect on ones moral code. This is a fact. Whether that effect is a negative or positive one is for you to decide, thats not what this discussion is about. I certainly never implied anything such as "religion is the reason for morality therefore it needs to be in the game". Im sorry but on that note I really do think you were reading too much into my statement.  Im simply saying that in a game that puts such a priority on letting the player decide the morality of their protagonist, the choice of whether or not you believe in a higher power is never given any further significance. 

Lastly, to the user above who suggested I play one of those shovelware religious games instead of Mass Effect, those were exactly the kind of jabs I was hoping to avoid in this thread. This discussion is not about your beliefs, its not about mine, its not about Atheists vs Relgious, its not about any of that. Its about Bioware following through on player choice, something which If i'm not mistaken, all of us support.

[Roxy Lalonde]

(Speaking as a Protestant here.)

I think that by the time of Mass Effect it would be fairly unbelievable if evolution was still considered a theory. At that point in time, religion would be much more fluid than it is today. Not saying it would be less serious or people would be less devout, but I think that Shepard can acknowledge evolution as fact AND believe in a higher power without it contradicting their spiritual beliefs. I certainly do.

Belief in God (or any other deity) would definitely be a good motivator for Shepard as to the Reapers' plans, but I think if so it would be an inner motivator, a personal one. Not one for them to project upon others. Shepard can easily motivate the crew by saying that humanity depends on them, because that's a common motivator. A major theme of Mass Effect is.. humanity. Not the species itself - humanity's nature, humanity's capabilities, that sort of thing.

Commenting positively on non-religious philosophies doesn't necessarily indicate atheism. I comment positively on non-religious philosophies unless there's something extremist about them or they infringe on people's rights. Freedom etc.
At least Shepard's not ramming religion/atheism down people's throats or anything. There's no extremism to it.

Modifié par Roxy Lalonde, 16 mars 2012 - 08:06 .

[Aesieru]

killnoob wrote...

starmine76 wrote...

  One of the most profound moments in any video game is in ME 1 where you briefly get to choose whether or not your character believed in God. 

Like quite a few others, I chose yes, not only because of my own beliefs but because the Idea of a hero in a blockbuster sci-fi epic who actually had deeply held religious convictions was interesting to me. To my dismay, this concept was never picked up on again after ME1, except for a brief mention of prayer in Ashley's letter. Not only was it never mentioned again, some of the things Shepard says in ME3 actually contradicts his religious beliefs. Comments about evolution which imply his agreement with it, moments where Shepard will positively comment on a very non-religious philosophy, the fact that your disscusions with Ashley never mention faith, the game never takes into account what YOUR Shepard believes and that's disappointing. 

Belief in God is just another strong reason for Shepard to defy the reaper's bleak ideology. I just wish NBoware had realized that.

Edit: Just to clarify you don't have subscribe to any spiritual beliefs to support this idea. This is about Bioware not following through on player choice, not your own convictions

Not sure if trolling.

If trolling: nice try sir, but you still have much to learn.

if not trolling:

• Bible Builder
• Break-Out The Bible
• Captain Bible in Dome of Darkness
• Computer Bible Games
• Dance Praise
• Dance Praise 2: The ReMix
• Exodus: Journey to the Promised Land
• King of Kings
• Left Behind: Eternal Forces
• Music Machine
• Noah's Ark (computer game)
• Original Dance Praise
• Pop & Rock Hits
• Spiritual Warfare
• Sunday Funday

You have so many choices to choose from and you have to play Mass Effect, a sci fi set in space with lots of aliens and techonology advanced robots?

[*]Let's be fair, at least BioWare USUALLY makes good games, none of those games are probably all that fun.

[Farbautisonn]

-uh oh... this is going to end well...


In b4 hitchens-esque poostorm.

[ColdRiver]

Implying Shepard isn't Jesus in space.

[BatmanPWNS]

You can still be religious. You just don't get to say it.