145 réponses à ce sujet

[Akka le Vil]

Saddened by the lack of support for Spiritual Shepards

"spiritual" != "religious"
My Shepard is certainly spiritual, doesn't mean he believes in God, and he CERTAINLY adhere to evolution.

Especially as not believing in evolution in a story that explicitely had the Reapers existing for a billion years and which include evolution as one of the background fact is quite ridiculous.

Modifié par Akka le Vil, 16 mars 2012 - 10:13 .

[Cootie]

BatmanPWNS wrote...

Melca36 wrote...

Lets face facts here....

The minute we discover that aliens do exist in the universe...its going to affect every single religion on Earth.


Life and religion will never be the same.

People will be forced to rethink what they were taught.

Nope, not really every. Some will continue and new ones will be made. Religion never died before and, as much as some want, won't die in the future.

Do a significant amount of people today believe in Zeus? No?
Why not?

A lot of atheists, I hear, became atheists when they were very young and were introduced to the fact that your religion is more or less a geographical accident.
Depending on where you're born, which country you grow up in, you'll have a different religion or a different spirituality.

Now, imagine that, but you know there are thousands, if not millions other systems out there with at least a thousand different cultures in council space. And each of those cultures, each of those alien races have probably had ten times as many religions as yours throughout their history.

I'd argue that it'd be difficult to keep any religion relevant in the face of such odds. They'd stop being religions and more like philosophies, I imagine. And no one would really take them very seriously.

[Grimord]

Seriously... Shepard denying evolution in the Mass Effect universe would be even more idiotic than anyone denying it in our own reality. Wanna give him the option to be religious? Sure, I don't care. Wanna have him denying evolution? What kind of galactic hero would be THAT stupid? *smh*

[AyatoSilvermane]

I looked at it this way, being faithful/spritual would likely actually be a detrimental attribute in the Mass Effect universe as it leaves you open to being more easily indoctrinated due to irrational yet unquestioned thinking. Besides it turns out that many gods in the ME universe turned out just to be Prothean voyeurs anyway XD

Modifié par AyatoSilvermane, 16 mars 2012 - 10:30 .

[pmac_tk421]

kalash442 wrote...

Shepard dosent need religion, he is religion.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Ye though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death
I shall fear no evil
My Locust and my Widow comfort me
For I am the meanest, baddest b**** in the valley.

Shepard believes in Kassa, Armax, Elanus, Hahne-Kedar, Haliat, Graal, Elkoss, etc. There are few problems that cannot be solved with large explosions.

[Hexedcoder]

I don't get it I saw lots of "spiritual" Dialogue options with Shep. Though, most of them came after someone died (*cough* Thane *cough*), and (what I like best about them) did not hole Shepard into one faith so he could believe in whatever you the player felt like, even if it is just lip service.

[aj2070]

finc.loki wrote...

I thank the flying spaghetti monster that they dropped religion.
Any species capable of interstellar travel would have ditched that fantasy long ago.
Now if only that could happen here today on earth as well.

Don't worry though, the Asari "thanks the goddess" all the time.

Disclaimer:
Yes my comment is my own personal view, people are free to believe whatever they want.
Personally I stick to Science and logic/common sense.

Also I think Religion and Science is EXTREMLY mutually exclusive...

Religion and a general belief in Deity is very different. One is dogma and tries to tell "how it is" Noah's ark, earth being 6000 years old, need I say more.

Being a Deist is simply a belief that there is or might be a "higher power/entity" so that is different.

Yes, it's  pretty obvious I'm an Atheist.

Oddly enough, if anyone says anything "disagreeable" about homosexuality, they are titled a homophobe.  Tolerance is a beautiful thing when it is a one-way street...   


Just saying.

[Sailears]

It's probably safest they left it out.

I liked the little conversation in ME1 which touched on that, but I don't think any game like this that is targeting a lot of people with varied beliefs (or lack of them) would be able to successfully explore proper metaphysical/philosophical/spiritual issues without annoying a large group of people.

It's a shame, but I don't think anything like this will be possible for years to come.


Edit: The best they can do is what they did - explore philosiphical issues grounded in modern science and science fiction, because spiritual (or even religious) people can digest that, but I don't think people who do not believe in soul/god would be able to digest spiritual fiction and issues grounded in spirituality.

Hey I like that phrase - I wonder if one day this could incorporate spiritual fiction (or "spi-fi") in future interactive entertainment!

Modifié par Curunen, 16 mars 2012 - 10:45 .

[Justin2k]

My Shepard IS god. Ashley says so so it's canon.

[MasterEcabob]

Although I would have really liked to see more of this type of thing (that choice in ME1 threw me for a loop and was a nice touch) I think what we got with Thane and Garrus at the end was pretty good.

It's something you rarely see in sci-fi, or at least rare enough to be interesting. Giving players a chance to affirm their own beliefs or call bull on beliefs is a great thing to do, and one reason why I think that Ashley was one of the most fleshed out characters.

That said, to all the atheists in this thread, try taking Javik to the Citadel or Thessia before you call out Bioware on cramming religion into their game. You guys get plenty of fanservice there, just as the religious/spiritual folks do during Thane's final moments. It's not much, but it is still pretty cool.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Hey, I did talk to Javik on the Citadel, and I took Liara and Javik on the Thessia mission. THAT was very interesting. Thane was already dead in this play -- he bought it on the SM.

[Palidane]

Speaking as a baptist, Religion is a time bomb, and should be handled with the utmost care. Like a few other people said, if you include Jesus, then you have to include Allah and everyone else. And then you get into unfortunate implications when these religions aren't the same 200 years in the future. "Islam/Christianity largely died off in the mid 23 century due to irreconcilable differences from the Koran/Bible and known scientific fact" Besides, ChristianShep would probably be way overplayed, stopping to pray for people all the time and stuff. And if you include Religion, you also have to have Atheism. And it's not like you can have the kind paragon christian and the walking a**hole atheist renegade. You have to make it neutral, while still providing a Paragon and Renegade response...

All in all, leave it to headcanon. It is just to hard to implement in a video game with this large and this much of a divided fan base. Heck, we're already getting trolls on this three page thread!

[Frolk]

I really don't mind the option of Shepard having some sort of religious belief (I probably wouldn't take that option, though), but I can see a lot of problems with how it would be implemented if his or her beliefs are too specific. There are plenty of religions in the world. If Shepard can express belief in a particular real-world religion, like Christianity, then a lot of non-Christian religious people might feel left out.

I think Bioware handled it well. Shepard can believe in some sort of vague higher power or not. Ze keeps hir beliefs mostly private, which allows players room for some head-canon.

[tomcplotts]

I remember pretending to be religious in ME1 just to get into Ashley's catsuit. Just like in real life!

Now that's an ending they should have included. The Reapers invaded to get rid of Christmas.

[Purge the heathens]

Palidane wrote...

And then you get into unfortunate implications when these religions aren't the same 200 years in the future. "Islam/Christianity largely died off in the mid 23 century due to irreconcilable differences from the Koran/Bible and known scientific fact."

Suddenly, I'm fondly remembering the Dune series. Buddhislam, Mahayana Christianity, Zensunni...

Heck, we're already getting trolls on this three page thread!

On BSN, there are trolls in -every- thread.

But yes, head-canon is the way to go.

The PLC wrote...

Why would Shepard believe in some silly dude up in the clouds, when he's faced the Reapers and been everywhere in the galaxy? At that point, it's pretty clear that stuff like that won't help him and doesn't mean anything.

Emotional support? Considering all the suicides in the game, people obviously need it.

[Cadwallen]

The PLC wrote...

Why would Shepard believe in some silly dude up in the clouds, when he's faced the Reapers and been everywhere in the galaxy? At that point, it's pretty clear that stuff like that won't help him and doesn't mean anything.

Many of the things Shepard survives in the Mass Effect series can be chalked up to either divine providence or dumb luck. But, of course, it's just a story. Reasons Shepard has to believe in the divine? The reapers should be one reason. They've hidden beyond the boundaries of the Milky Way for tens of thousands of years, having kept their existence hidden until the Geth and Saren encountered Sovereign.

"So," Shepard might be inclined to wonder, "what else is waiting to be discovered out there?"

Modifié par Cadwallen, 17 mars 2012 - 03:53 .

[finc.loki]

Roxy Lalonde wrote...

(Speaking as a Protestant here.)

I think that by the time of Mass Effect it would be fairly unbelievable if evolution was still considered a theory. At that point in time, religion would be much more fluid than it is today. Not saying it would be less serious or people would be less devout, but I think that Shepard can acknowledge evolution as fact AND believe in a higher power without it contradicting their spiritual beliefs. I certainly do.

Belief in God (or any other deity) would definitely be a good motivator for Shepard as to the Reapers' plans, but I think if so it would be an inner motivator, a personal one. Not one for them to project upon others. Shepard can easily motivate the crew by saying that humanity depends on them, because that's a common motivator. A major theme of Mass Effect is.. humanity. Not the species itself - humanity's nature, humanity's capabilities, that sort of thing.

Commenting positively on non-religious philosophies doesn't necessarily indicate atheism. I comment positively on non-religious philosophies unless there's something extremist about them or they infringe on people's rights. Freedom etc.
At least Shepard's not ramming religion/atheism down people's throats or anything. There's no extremism to it.

I think you're confused when it comes to evolution being "just a theory".
It's not a "theory" as in everyday term theory, it is a SCIENTIFIC Theory, that means fact.

It's not a hypothesis, Science uses the word theory in a much different capacity, Evolution is regarded as fact, in science this is referred to as "Scientific Theory".

Google is your friend look up the difference between everyday people term "theory" and "Scientific Theory".

The Science that the Earth is round is a Scientific Theory, just as plate tectonics, gravity etc etc.
We both know these things are "facts".

This is why even the Catholic church officially stand by the Scientific theory of evolution as TRUE, IE fact.
It's most common creationists that refuse to understand this and still claim earth is 5-6000 years old, which realistically is plain nuts.

[Odd Hermit]

How would anyone not believe in evolution in the ME setting? Evolution is even more evident in ME than it is in reality, since there are several races and humans are not the most advanced form of life. Plus a lot of the science/technology in ME is based in part on the concept of evolution or at least genetics. Whatever spirituality they've got I'm pretty sure it's not meant to be bible belt-esque Christianity - that just wouldn't fit at all.

Modifié par Odd Hermit, 17 mars 2012 - 04:13 .

[finc.loki]

kleindropper wrote...

finc.loki wrote...

I thank the flying spaghetti monster that they dropped religion.
Any species capable of interstellar travel would have ditched that fantasy long ago.
Now if only that could happen here today on earth as well.

Don't worry though, the Asari "thanks the goddess" all the time.

Disclaimer:
Yes my comment is my own personal view, people are free to believe whatever they want.
Personally I stick to Science and logic/common sense.

Also I think Religion and Science is EXTREMLY mutually exclusive...

Religion and a general belief in Deity is very different. One is dogma and tries to tell "how it is" Noah's ark, earth being 6000 years old, need I say more.

Being a Deist is simply a belief that there is or might be a "higher power/entity" so that is different.

Yes, it's  pretty obvious I'm an Atheist.

I find it funny how uninformed most atheists are about religion.  I also find if funny that scientists work so hard to unravel  the rules of the universe but totally dismiss who created the rules in the first place.

You mean the deity that is a pink Elephant with white poka dots that lives in the Andromeda Galaxy? You mean that god?I dare you to disprove that claim.
See this is not how things work, you provide the evidence with your claim of something.

It's funny how misinformed you are about science and well reality and a little something we call evidence.
How exactly am I misinformed by religion? The part where Noah crammed in millions of species of animals on his 400 foot ARK? Then distributed then correctly around the world.
Or the part where he aged to 900 years, perhaps the part where earth has 4 corners (IE flat).
Or the loving part where the bible say "kill disobedient teenagers", "Kill the man who works on the sabbath".
Perhaps the incest LOT has with his daughters.
The part where earth is 5-6000 years old, eventhough we have indisputable proof of that it is 4.5 Billion years old.
Not to mention dinosaur bones etc etc.

[Luvinn]

People are saying to use your imagination to make up the real meaning of the endings, so just use your imagination to make your shep spiritual.

[finc.loki]

aj2070 wrote...

finc.loki wrote...

I thank the flying spaghetti monster that they dropped religion.
Any species capable of interstellar travel would have ditched that fantasy long ago.
Now if only that could happen here today on earth as well.

Don't worry though, the Asari "thanks the goddess" all the time.

Disclaimer:
Yes my comment is my own personal view, people are free to believe whatever they want.
Personally I stick to Science and logic/common sense.

Also I think Religion and Science is EXTREMLY mutually exclusive...

Religion and a general belief in Deity is very different. One is dogma and tries to tell "how it is" Noah's ark, earth being 6000 years old, need I say more.

Being a Deist is simply a belief that there is or might be a "higher power/entity" so that is different.

Yes, it's  pretty obvious I'm an Atheist.

Oddly enough, if anyone says anything "disagreeable" about homosexuality, they are titled a homophobe.  Tolerance is a beautiful thing when it is a one-way street...   


Just saying.

Well I would imagine that would be the case cause "homosexuality" is not a choice and it is very much 100% verifiable and it DOES exist.

Whereas religion and faith is just that faith with no basis in any evidence.

[kleindropper]

I'm guessing atheists don't think the ending is such a big deal then. After all, all that death and destruction is just a random transfer of matter and energy meaning nothing. ex. Tali committing suicide = Two asteroids colliding. Just random events in a universe randomly existing through space magic.

And I don't know where this evolution stuff is coming from though I know I've heard Catholic priests discuss in detail the development of the planet over billions of years, so that is just high and mighty atheists setting up strawmen to try and make themselves sound superior.

Modifié par kleindropper, 17 mars 2012 - 04:38 .