145 réponses à ce sujet

[Kmead15]

I wouldn't have minded if something had been in the game. A conversation about religion could have been an interesting way to explore how Shepard was dealing with all the stress. An atheist Shepard could remain true to their (lack of) beliefs or despair could cause them to look to a higher power for answers. A believer might lose their faith in the face of all the destruction or hold on to it as a source of strength in trying times. However, I agree with the people who think this would have been a difficult topic to handle well, especially since they'd have had to remain vague to avoid excluding certain systems of belief. I also don't think that lacking the option to discuss religion hurt the game too much, and there's a whole host of other conversations that I'd rather see.

[ZaroktheImmortal]

kleindropper wrote...

I'm guessing atheists don't think the ending is such a big deal then. After all, all that death and destruction is just a random transfer of matter and energy meaning nothing. ex. Tali committing suicide = Two asteroids colliding. Just random events in a universe randomly existing through space magic.

And I don't know where this evolution stuff is coming from though I know I've heard Catholic priests discuss in detail the development of the planet over billions of years, so that is just high and mighty atheists setting up strawmen to try and make themselves sound superior.

Oh yes, because atheists don't care about dying even though we realise that there's nothing afterwards. I could turn that around and say it's suprising theists think the ending a big deal because after all that death and destruction they think they will all just go to heaven or Valhalla or Hades or whatever. Also on this topic if you're going to have him able to believe in one god you should also include all the other gods invented by religion not just the christian concept of god. What if someone wants their Shepard to believe in Zeus? Or Odin? Or Osiris? or perhaps one of the gods of other species in the Mass Effect universe? Perhaps they want him to believe in multiple gods. He could be a Pagan or Wiccan.

Modifié par ZaroktheImmortal, 17 mars 2012 - 10:27 .

[Akka le Vil]

Simpfan wrote...

 Im seeing a lot of posts claiming how they think people wouldve ditched any religious beliefs by the time they achieve the level of tech in Mass Effect, but thats not really a valid point since in the world of Mass Effect, religion does exist.

Actually, the argument was more "beliefs would have largely CHANGED due to contact with other races and ample evidence of 50000 years old civilization".
Human-centrist religions would probably have had to adapt quite a bit (just like Christianity had to ditch the "Earth is the center of the universe" due to discovery about how it was revolving around the Sun and not the opposite) after alien contact, and it's quite a bit impossible to have a "Young Earth Creationist" Shepard, or one who doesn't agree with evolution, when the point of the story is multi-million years old machines that actually SAW the life evolve on the planets. At the very, very most, he can be an "intelligent design" proponent, and it's still stretching it beyond breaking point when seeing all the other lifeforms in the galaxy.

So it's not really that "religion will have disappeared", but more "they would have evoloved/changed with the shattering changes coming from entering the galactic stage".

[Planeforger]

Simpfan wrote...

 Im seeing a lot of posts claiming how they think people wouldve ditched any religious beliefs by the time they achieve the level of tech in Mass Effect, but thats not really a valid point since in the world of Mass Effect, religion does exist.

I guess the question is, what human religions would be in the game, and how would they influence your views?

I'm guessing that some of the major religions might still be around at that time - Islam, Christianity, etc - although I don't know how well they'd cope with the scientific revelations of that universe (the universe being full of sentient beings not made in god's image, evolution being a provable scientific fact, non-divine creators being a very real possibility, AIs having consciousness, people very literally coming back from the dead, etc).

Perhaps the ones we have now would have to make way for a whole host of new Bioware-created religions, or change beyond recognition...and either way, it'd be difficult to implement it in the game.

For example, if Shepard followed a more peace-loving religion, would the game just automatically pick the Paragon option for you every time? And if he broke the tenets of his religion, what would happen then?

[AlexMBrennan]

just like Christianity had to ditch the "Earth is the center of the universe" due to discovery about how it was revolving around the Sun and not the opposite

When did that happen?

Exactly how would you include that in ME3? In ME1, the choice comes up in the 3rd romance chat with Ash, so the vast majority of people will never have seen it (since, after all, the 3rd part of a trilogy is the best place to start).
So, your best bet is probably to ask the player when importing to list Shepard's faith, or have that random IGN reporter ask Shepard during one of the interviews - I'm sure that wouldn't look contrived at all.

Finally, there tend to be hotly debated conflicts between intelligent and religious people. I'm sure you'll agree that Bioware is already taking enough flak as it is.
Oh, and btw, religion being popular is mostly a US thing - in the EU they'd probably and rightly get sued for including it

[N7-2371]

 I'm going to make my debut post in these forums in this thread by tossing my opinion into this thread. First off, I don't exactly have the time or patience to read all 5 pages of what I'm guessing is filled with a dozen or so large posts that would too long for me to read. Call me lazy if you want, I don't care.But for the record, I have read the entire first page. . >.>. Anyway, my post is going to be intended to be a direct response to you, OP. 

I happen to be an atheist who is particularly adamant in his beliefs. And I happen to have no qualms about the OP's request at all. I've even turned at least one of my ME1 characters into a spiritual person. The ability to choose your religious opinion in ME1 was implemented splendidly. It was a moment primed for choice. And as mentioned by a couple of people on that first page, it's absolutely foolish to think that Bioware would dare to make either choice considered Paragon or Renegade. I mean, heck, choosing your religious affiliation in ME1 felt synonymous with choosing whether you were a Spacer or one of those others. Also, it's not like you're asking for religion to take over the game, aye, OP? I'm guessing you'd be satisfied with at least a single hint towards the ability to choose your affiliation would be okay with you? I'm all for a fair and balanced system that's inclusive towards everybody. Just don't start stuffing religiosity into the game, because that's when I'd start throwing my hissy-fit.

And there's my two cents. I'll go back to lurking now . . .

Modifié par N7-2371, 17 mars 2012 - 10:52 .

[Tirigon]

Believing in the bible is pretty hard when you have to ally with aliens to avoid being killed by Giant Space Squids. And meet some guy who flat-out tells you "yea it was totally us who made you evolve".


Edit: That being said, I am all for more choices in (supposedly) Roleplaying games. If you want to play a christian, why not?
It just so happens there are many other options whose implementation would be more useful, and less illogical, imo.

Modifié par Tirigon, 17 mars 2012 - 10:54 .

[Purge the heathens]

Simpfan wrote...

If you can make your Shepard as straight, gay, or ambiguously aloof as you want, why not have options for how much they believe in a religion?

Religion, if turned into a character trait, would have to be a bit more pervasive... and intrusive, to some. Homosexuality only plays into a few short romance scenes. Unless you want to see something like this...



Harbinger: But even now, your greatest civilisations are doomed to fall. Your leaders will beg to serve us.

Shepard: Maybe you're right. Maybe we can't win this. But we'll fight you regardless. Also, I'm gay.

[Simpfan]

Planeforger wrote...

Simpfan wrote...

 Im seeing a lot of posts claiming how they think people wouldve ditched any religious beliefs by the time they achieve the level of tech in Mass Effect, but thats not really a valid point since in the world of Mass Effect, religion does exist.

I guess the question is, what human religions would be in the game, and how would they influence your views?

I'm guessing that some of the major religions might still be around at that time - Islam, Christianity, etc - although I don't know how well they'd cope with the scientific revelations of that universe (the universe being full of sentient beings not made in god's image, evolution being a provable scientific fact, non-divine creators being a very real possibility, AIs having consciousness, people very literally coming back from the dead, etc).

Perhaps the ones we have now would have to make way for a whole host of new Bioware-created religions, or change beyond recognition...and either way, it'd be difficult to implement it in the game.

For example, if Shepard followed a more peace-loving religion, would the game just automatically pick the Paragon option for you every time? And if he broke the tenets of his religion, what would happen then?

The Cerberus News stuff made many references to religions. I believe the three Abrahamic ones.

[Tirigon]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

Oh, and btw, religion being popular is mostly a US thing - in the EU they'd probably and rightly get sued for including it

They wouldnt (or at least not successfully) because sueing people over whatever you want only works in the US.

[Tirigon]

Purge the heathens wrote...

Harbinger: But even now, your greatest civilisations are doomed to fall. Your leaders will beg to serve us.

Shepard: Maybe you're right. Maybe we can't win this. But we'll fight you regardless. Also, I'm gay.

Harbinger: Cool me too. We should totally hang out some time.

[N7-2371]

kleindropper wrote...

I'm guessing atheists don't think the ending is such a big deal then. After all, all that death and destruction is just a random transfer of matter and energy meaning nothing. ex. Tali committing suicide = Two asteroids colliding. Just random events in a universe randomly existing through space magic.

Just saw this and I really must protest. I love my Tali. <3. We atheists aren't mindless husks. >.>. We have emotions, too.

Modifié par N7-2371, 17 mars 2012 - 10:58 .

[AlexMBrennan]

They wouldnt (or at least not successfully) because sueing people over whatever you want only works in the US.

Indeed?

[Akka le Vil]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

just like Christianity had to ditch the "Earth is the center of the universe" due to discovery about how it was revolving around the Sun and not the opposite

When did that happen?

Arount 1750 the Church dropped ban on heliocentrist works, and around 1820 it published books that talked about heliocentrism.

Oh, and btw, religion being popular is mostly a US thing - in the EU they'd probably and rightly get sued for including it

No, in EU we would simply not care about it, or only see it as a writer's attempt to add some depth.

Modifié par Akka le Vil, 17 mars 2012 - 11:07 .

[Tirigon]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

They wouldnt (or at least not successfully) because sueing people over whatever you want only works in the US.

Indeed?

Well there are exceptions. But as long as BioWare wouldnt present Shepard's religiosity in some official way (like, going to the council: I HAVE A PLAN! PRAYING TO GOD WILL CAUSE HIM TO END THE REAPER BLIGHT!!!") or insult other religions (THE REAPERS COME TO PUNISH THE UNBELIEVERS!!!) I dont see the problem.

Modifié par Tirigon, 17 mars 2012 - 11:09 .

[Kmead15]

Purge the heathens wrote...

Religion, if turned into a character trait, would have to be a bit more pervasive... and intrusive, to some. Homosexuality only plays into a few short romance scenes. Unless you want to see something like this...

Harbinger: But even now, your greatest civilisations are doomed to fall. Your leaders will beg to serve us.

Shepard: Maybe you're right. Maybe we can't win this. But we'll fight you regardless. Also, I'm gay.

Why would it be more intrusive? Unless Shepard was the sort of person who can't go two words without waxing eloquent about his beliefs, there's no reason you'd have to directly mention them outside of scenes that are specifically meant to address that topic.

[Freakiq]

It was addressed in ME1.

Your Shepard is still a believer but there has simply not been a fitting moment to bring up your beliefs in ME3.

Most of your squadmates are either atheist or have their own beliefs, pushing your beliefs on them would be unfitting.

[El Mito]

I believe there's a flying spaghetti monster in the sky watching over me. Prove me wrong, theists.

[Carnage752]

Figures, only takes the mentioning of religion to bring out the idiocy of both sides. Evolution at it's finest.

Stay on topic ****s.

[RVallant]

Freakiq wrote...

It was addressed in ME1.

Your Shepard is still a believer but there has simply not been a fitting moment to bring up your beliefs in ME3.

Most of your squadmates are either atheist or have their own beliefs, pushing your beliefs on them would be unfitting.

Could have had one with Ashley in ME3, I think she mentions it in passing again but it isn't expanded on.

[Sons of Horus]

I think this would have been intresting expanding on your Shepard on his background. I feel this was too lightly touched upon in mass effect 3. After all, people would want to know more about Shepard after the reapers entered the galaxy for insights into him. It may have expanded on the roleplay quite a bit.

Modifié par Sons of Horus, 17 mars 2012 - 06:26 .

[Ghost Warrior]

What about final conversation with Garrus,something about religion was implied if I remember correctly.

[finc.loki]

PiEman wrote...

finc.loki wrote...

I thank the flying spaghetti monster that they dropped religion.
Any species capable of interstellar travel would have ditched that fantasy long ago.
Now if only that could happen here today on earth as well.

Don't worry though, the Asari "thanks the goddess" all the time.

Disclaimer:
Yes my comment is my own personal view, people are free to believe whatever they want.
Personally I stick to Science and logic/common sense.

Also I think Religion and Science is EXTREMLY mutually exclusive...

Religion and a general belief in Deity is very different. One is dogma and tries to tell "how it is" Noah's ark, earth being 6000 years old, need I say more.

Being a Deist is simply a belief that there is or might be a "higher power/entity" so that is different.

Yes, it's  pretty obvious I'm an Atheist.

Oh look, the bottom of my sh*tlist is here!

This thread was actually going pretty smoothly before you decided to randomly attack religion after the OP tried to be very open minded with his discussion of faith.

Thanks a ton...

Who are you? Why should I care what you think and you having me on your own "personal S-list".
I'm kind of flattered that a person I have no clue even exist on this forum cares so much about me one way or another.

It was not attacking and it was not random, it's my opinion, deal with it.
Also thanks for showing your true colors about the hypocritical statement of "open minded", that would imply debate is open, or it wouldn't really be open minded would it.

Are you telling me I am barred from stating my view on faith and religion in this discussion because it doesn't coincide with YOUR view.

If you or anyone else bring up religion you can be sure to get polarized opinions and views on the matter.
Perhaps you belong to the camp that think you and your faith is above all.

[finc.loki]

PiEman wrote...

finc.loki wrote...

kleindropper wrote...

I'm guessing atheists don't think the ending is such a big deal then. After all, all that death and destruction is just a random transfer of matter and energy meaning nothing. ex. Tali committing suicide = Two asteroids colliding. Just random events in a universe randomly existing through space magic.

And I don't know where this evolution stuff is coming from though I know I've heard Catholic priests discuss in detail the development of the planet over billions of years, so that is just high and mighty atheists setting up strawmen to try and make themselves sound superior.

So you think Evolution is a "straw man". 

Also, here we go with the proverbial "Atheists don't care about life or anything", where is the "Atheists don't have morals".
Or the long time favorite "Atheists just reject god".

Funny how you should say "space magic" about Science and knowledge, yet, somehow don't think a "god" is space "magic".

"you don't know where this evolution stuff comes from", well my only advice is pick up a text-book and educate yourself about it.

There is nothing "high and mighty" about it.

PS. this is the no spoilers part of the forum.

Did you even read his post, or did you see the word "Catholic" and stop thinking?

He didn't call evolution a strawman you dumb ****, he called YOU a straw man, because that's what you are.

A "straw man" is a fallacy in/of argument, a person can not be a straw man.

Also I would like to point out that you should read the banner over the forum that says "no personal attacks against forum visitors".

How about you at least try, I know it must be hard, but try to actually formulate arguments instead of using ad hominem attacks.

[finc.loki]

PiEman wrote...

ncknck wrote...

i dont think religion topics are allowed here.

Well, it is bringing back memories of why I have such a bitter initial impression of atheists in the first place.

The first large group of atheists I ever met were on the internet. A bodybuilding site I was on. They were all dicks, and quickly ruined my opinion of atheists in general, and that's been very hard to undo.

I've been working for years to try and not have a sour outlook towards a person because they're an atheist, and some people have helped that. My best friend of a few years was an atheist, my current History 105 teacher is an atheist, but they aren't complete assh*les like the ones I first met were.

The guy I quoted a few minutes ago however...is destroying what I have tried to build...again...

It's kind of cute that you honestly think anyone on the internet would care what you think of them or "the group" they belong too.
I don't know you, AT ALL.
Your personal hate for Atheist has no meaning to me, nor does it make me sleep any less at night.

If your faith is so strong why are you bothered by others that doesn't believe what you believe, why must they follow your beliefs?

shadey wrote...

Edje Edgar wrote...


Well we'd probably be more opposed to gay people if they had a long history of trying to force people to live a certain way or believe certain things.

right and atheist run communist countries never killed millions

Your argument is a fallacy in that it confuses cause and effect. It's a non-sequitur argument as well.

Hitler was a catholic, does that mean all Catholic's act like Hitler?

USA is a capitalistic country, it has killed millions over the years, most of it's leaders are and have been religious and the country is 80% religious.

ReconTeam wrote...

Rabbi Satan wrote...And is there any evidence that Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Ceaușescu et al, slaughtered millions and subjigated millions more because they were atheists, and NOT because they were after naked power and were generally blights apon the human race?
nah atheists l0ol amirite?
You know what, lets take this further:
Did you know that the heads of the communist run countries had funny hair? Ate food? Drank water? WERE MEN?!

Oh yes atheism has never done anything bad ever. Atheism never played into the actions of Stalin, Mao, etc. at all, just ignore all of the priests and religious figures lined up and shot. They had it coming for spreading their "outdated" ideas amirite? 
On the other hand, everytime theistic individuals (specifically those big bad Christians) do something bad it's because they believe in God.
Yup, atheists are the superior human beings, spreading truth­­™ and logic™ from their mothers basements via internet webcams. Truly the ideal human society!

Correct, Atheism has never done anything bad.
Atheism is not a doctrine or dogma, it has no organization that say "how you should act or behave".
Atheism is simply a lack of belief in deities.
Religious people always confuse this.

Well when a religious person does something bad it usually IS in the name of the religion they follow.
How about the suicide bombers that scream "allah akbar (god is great)", it would seem pretty certain THEY did it for their religious beliefs.
Or Christianity that killed witches and the inquisition all in the name of religion and god.

When you have a book of scriptures that tell people how to live and act like the Bible, Koran etc and they have preachers that tell people to do things, well enough said.

Like that great quote by Steven Weinberg:

"Good people will do good things, and bad people will do bad things. But for good people to do bad things -- that takes religion. "

Modifié par finc.loki, 18 mars 2012 - 03:19 .