145 réponses à ce sujet

[Amagoi]

I admit, it's petty of me. But when I saw that earlier tonight, it made my night. That's the meaner and more effective way of hurting their sales.

[firebreather19]

Mystical_Gaming wrote...

firebreather19 wrote...


Exactly, you want the end to come up and say "Hey look at all these things you did!" except you shouldn't need that. If you did it, that should be enough. 

Besides, ME1 didn't do it...I don't remember a choice not to fight Saren and say it's cool, go do your reaper thing. Saving Kaiden or Ashley didn't matter, except one or the other might've been in the final fight. ME2 did it better, but the grand scale of what was at stake didn't change.

my friend, you miss my point though. It's not just about the choices I made whether thye had a huge impact or not. Whether thye led to my shepards demis or not. It was the fact I was given the choice the entire trilogy. But thne in the end I had to betray the cannon of my femsep becasue the game steps out of place and all of the sudden doesn't allow us to choose a choice that would reflect the way our character whould have played. What is the point of having a trilogy based about choice only to have a dues ex choice style end.

this is why I used the exmaple of the apple and perhaps why some players (who played the game and beat it, who rightfully have the choice to down rate the game) went to amazon and metacritc or wherever they bough it a gave it a low score. I myself did not go all around down rating the game so please, before you put e in the bandwagon of haters and players that just down rate to make a point I don't do that kind of stuff.

I'm just simply posting on this forum giving my feelings. I you feel I am silly for expecting or desiring a trilogy ending that has something to do with the choices we've made in the 3 games then fine ... but know this: As real people we make choices every day and we wouldn't or don't just one day decide to go against everything we beleive (without some reason for us to change or an event that changes us ad shapes us as people) to all of the sudden make a choice that would go against our character. This however happens in the end of ME3 where we simply don't have a choice anymore becasue the game decided not to allow it anymore ... I have nothing further to say and will leave it at that.

ME1 ending, 1 choice: kill Saren.
ME2 ending 2 choices: destroy Collector Base, give it up.
ME3 ending 3 choices: Synth, Destroy, Control.

Pretty clear cut you got as many choices at the end of ME3 as you did at the end of ME1 or 2. 

[Xenolithium]

Jake71887 wrote...

Xenolithium wrote...
Oh man, he just pulled out the good old "Good Day Sir!" the other dude!

Ah, reduced to trolling because you can't think of adequate responses, sad... I'm still waiting on your response to our previous conversation BTW.

Why on earth would I do that?

You brought nothing valid to begin with. I posted my thoughts, and you retorted with...well, I assume you just drooled on your keyboard. You bring nothing, and probably never will, to the argument. You may continue pulling out numbers out of your rear.


This is something you should have already known.

[Mystical_Gaming]

Mystical_Gaming wrote...

firebreather19 wrote...


Exactly, you want the end to come up and say "Hey look at all these things you did!" except you shouldn't need that. If you did it, that should be enough. 

Besides, ME1 didn't do it...I don't remember a choice not to fight Saren and say it's cool, go do your reaper thing. Saving Kaiden or Ashley didn't matter, except one or the other might've been in the final fight. ME2 did it better, but the grand scale of what was at stake didn't change.

my friend, you miss my point though. It's not just about the choices I made whether they had a huge impact or not. Whether they led to my shepard's demise or not. It was the fact I was given the choice the entire trilogy. But then in the end I had to betray the cannon of my femsep becasue the game steps out of place and all of the sudden doesn't allow us to choose a choice that would reflect the way our character would have chosen (and had been chooing all 3 games long). What is the point of having a trilogy based about choice only to have a dues ex choice style end that was not fit for a game like mass effect.

this is why I used the exmaple of the apple and perhaps why some players (who played the game and beat it, who rightfully have the choice to down rate the game) went to amazon and metacritc or wherever they bought it a gave it a low score. I myself did not go all around down rating the game down so please, before you put me in the bandwagon of haters and players that just down rate to make a point I don't do that kind of stuff.

I'm just simply posting on this forum giving my feelings. If you feel I am silly for expecting or desiring a trilogy ending that has something to do with the choices we've made in the 3 games then fine ... but know this: As real people we make choices every day and we wouldn't or don't just one day decide to go against everything we beleive (without some reason for us to change or an event that changes us and shapes us as people) to all of the sudden make a choice that would go against our character. This however happens in the end of ME3 where we simply don't have a choice anymore becasue the game decided not to allow it anymore ... I have nothing further to say and will leave it at that.

[firebreather19]

Plus why is ending the Geth to save the galaxy any different than ending the Batarians? Or is not playing that DLC now suddenly the solution, and people can say it doesn't count?

[Jake71887]

firebreather19 wrote...
No, there's no "700 buy it new, the money goes to EA."

It's 1000 are purchased from EA by the store. 

Then the rest.

EA gets the money right away, sorry. 

Have you actually ever been to a Gamestop? Do you know how many used copies of games did NOT in fact end up being originally purchased from that store? Regardless of the fact, that if a store has new and used copies on it's shelf, it won't be ordering more from EA/Bioware to stock their shelves. 

Sorry.

[Xenolithium]

firebreather19 wrote...

Xenolithium wrote...

Jake71887 wrote...

firebreather19 wrote...

Not really, all those new copies are already bought and paid for. Plus used copies get easier added on Prothean DLC. Not quite as simple as you think.

Yes really...

Say 1000 people want to buy ME3. 

700 buy it new, that money goes to EA/Bioware. 
500 Return it and they become used copies. 
100 more buy it new; but 200 buy it used. 

So 1000 people have copies now. 
800 contribute to EA/Bioware's pocket. 
200 Do not. 


Regardless of how many have been bought before, EA/Bioware is losing money because used copies are available. I now have completely dimissed your claims about used copies,a nd the fact that you work at a store; because this is basic stuff you should know.

Oh man, he just pulled out the good old "Good Day Sir!" the other dude!

No, there's no "700 buy it new, the money goes to EA."

It's 1000 are purchased from EA by the store. 

Then the rest.

EA gets the money right away, sorry. 

No, you can't respond. He just said "Good Day Sir!"

You got 1-upped by him. He is right in his infinite wisdom. We should erect statues and idolize him. He was won this day.

[Jake71887]

Xenolithium wrote...

Jake71887 wrote...

Xenolithium wrote...
Oh man, he just pulled out the good old "Good Day Sir!" the other dude!

Ah, reduced to trolling because you can't think of adequate responses, sad... I'm still waiting on your response to our previous conversation BTW.

Why on earth would I do that?

You brought nothing valid to begin with. I posted my thoughts, and you retorted with...well, I assume you just drooled on your keyboard. You bring nothing, and probably never will, to the argument. You may continue pulling out numbers out of your rear.


This is something you should have already known.

Ah, reduced to trolling because you can't think of adequate responses, sad... I'm still waiting on your response to our previous conversation BTW.

 

[firebreather19]

Jake71887 wrote...

firebreather19 wrote...
No, there's no "700 buy it new, the money goes to EA."

It's 1000 are purchased from EA by the store. 

Then the rest.

EA gets the money right away, sorry. 

Have you actually ever been to a Gamestop? Do you know how many used copies of games did NOT in fact end up being originally purchased from that store? Regardless of the fact, that if a store has new and used copies on it's shelf, it won't be ordering more from EA/Bioware to stock their shelves. 

Sorry.

Well, yeah, because if it were a Gamestop or a Walmart or Best Buy or whatever company, it would be totally crazy for them to purchase all those games ahead of time and store them in warehouses. Insanity. 

[firebreather19]

Xenolithium wrote...

firebreather19 wrote...

Xenolithium wrote...

Jake71887 wrote...

firebreather19 wrote...

Not really, all those new copies are already bought and paid for. Plus used copies get easier added on Prothean DLC. Not quite as simple as you think.

Yes really...

Say 1000 people want to buy ME3. 

700 buy it new, that money goes to EA/Bioware. 
500 Return it and they become used copies. 
100 more buy it new; but 200 buy it used. 

So 1000 people have copies now. 
800 contribute to EA/Bioware's pocket. 
200 Do not. 


Regardless of how many have been bought before, EA/Bioware is losing money because used copies are available. I now have completely dimissed your claims about used copies,a nd the fact that you work at a store; because this is basic stuff you should know.

Oh man, he just pulled out the good old "Good Day Sir!" the other dude!

No, there's no "700 buy it new, the money goes to EA."

It's 1000 are purchased from EA by the store. 

Then the rest.

EA gets the money right away, sorry. 

No, you can't respond. He just said "Good Day Sir!"

You got 1-upped by him. He is right in his infinite wisdom. We should erect statues and idolize him. He was won this day.

This is truth. But not "The Truth." Don't get too excited.

[Necrotron]

Spanking Machine wrote...

It's a shame, because up until the last 10 minutes it was one of the best games I've ever played.

Straight up, and if I wasn't so disgusted at what all that work was going towards, I'd do it many times over.

[Jake71887]

firebreather19 wrote...

Jake71887 wrote...

firebreather19 wrote...
No, there's no "700 buy it new, the money goes to EA."

It's 1000 are purchased from EA by the store. 

Then the rest.

EA gets the money right away, sorry. 

Have you actually ever been to a Gamestop? Do you know how many used copies of games did NOT in fact end up being originally purchased from that store? Regardless of the fact, that if a store has new and used copies on it's shelf, it won't be ordering more from EA/Bioware to stock their shelves. 

Sorry.

Well, yeah, because if it were a Gamestop or a Walmart or Best Buy or whatever company, it would be totally crazy for them to purchase all those games ahead of time and store them in warehouses. Insanity. 

Precisely why EA/Bioware wants people buying new copies, and why an overabundance of used copies hurts a company. It's also why a lot of games now institute bonuses for obtaining new copies... Used copies take away from new copies that could be sold, which takes away from stores stocking new copies, which takes away from how much a company sells to a store.

[THEFRIGGINDOOMGUY!]

I like how hypocritical people are.They say that they don't frequent professional review sites like IGN and Gamespot because they are dishonest but user reviews on Metacritic are just as dishonest, if not more.Seriously, do you REALLY think ME3 deserves only a 36/100?! Bioware, if you are reading this DON'T FALL FOR THE TROLLS, yeah the ending was kind of bad but the game does NOT deserve such a low score just because of the ending!

[Xenolithium]

firebreather19 wrote...

Xenolithium wrote...

firebreather19 wrote...

Xenolithium wrote...

Jake71887 wrote...

firebreather19 wrote...

Not really, all those new copies are already bought and paid for. Plus used copies get easier added on Prothean DLC. Not quite as simple as you think.

Yes really...

Say 1000 people want to buy ME3. 

700 buy it new, that money goes to EA/Bioware. 
500 Return it and they become used copies. 
100 more buy it new; but 200 buy it used. 

So 1000 people have copies now. 
800 contribute to EA/Bioware's pocket. 
200 Do not. 


Regardless of how many have been bought before, EA/Bioware is losing money because used copies are available. I now have completely dimissed your claims about used copies,a nd the fact that you work at a store; because this is basic stuff you should know.

Oh man, he just pulled out the good old "Good Day Sir!" the other dude!

No, there's no "700 buy it new, the money goes to EA."

It's 1000 are purchased from EA by the store. 

Then the rest.

EA gets the money right away, sorry. 

No, you can't respond. He just said "Good Day Sir!"

You got 1-upped by him. He is right in his infinite wisdom. We should erect statues and idolize him. He was won this day.

This is truth. But not "The Truth." Don't get too excited.

Damn, I actually thought The Truth was pretty awesome! 

[Jake71887]

Octavian the Emperor wrote...

I like how hypocritical people are.They say that they don't frequent professional review sites like IGN and Gamespot because they are dishonest but user reviews on Metacritic are just as dishonest, if not more.Seriously, do you REALLY think ME3 deserves only a 36/100?! Bioware, if you are reading this DON'T FALL FOR THE TROLLS, yeah the ending was kind of bad but the game does NOT deserve such a low score just because of the ending!

Most gamers don't go to metacritic for accurate game reviews either  

[Xenolithium]

Octavian the Emperor wrote...

I like how hypocritical people are.They say that they don't frequent professional review sites like IGN and Gamespot because they are dishonest but user reviews on Metacritic are just as dishonest, if not more.Seriously, do you REALLY think ME3 deserves only a 36/100?! Bioware, if you are reading this DON'T FALL FOR THE TROLLS, yeah the ending was kind of bad but the game does NOT deserve such a low score just because of the ending!

I'm sure the Review Sites will go on another mass cleansing of troll reviews.

[KotorEffect3]

Amagoi wrote...

I admit, it's petty of me. But when I saw that earlier tonight, it made my night. That's the meaner and more effective way of hurting their sales.

So you want to hurt their sales jeopardizing the chances of future content being released.  Yeah you're not selfish or shortsighted or anything.

[Dragoonlordz]

Miphious wrote...

I gave the game a 3 because I enjoyed most of it, but the ending (and now all the nonsense and non-answers from staff) dropped it for me. It would have gotten a 5 with even just a mediocre ending.

But to suggest that all the people giving the game 1 star are somehow acting inappropriately is ridiculous. You have absolutely no right to tell one person how they ought to feel about something they played and had a personal experience with. If the ending was so bad for someone that they are unable to play the games anymore then that is their opinion and they are allowed to have it! And the game certainly deserves a single star rating from them for exactly that reason.

Stop acting like everyone is being childish when they don't do exactly what you do!

Some people have taken this ending really hard. Missing classes/work, becoming depressed, stopping sleeping/eating. Perhaps they should get a life, but again, their reaction is their reaction and you have no control over that.

Review bombing however is childish by nature, it is what children do as in they let their emotions take over from their heads.

[Dragoonlordz]

Xenolithium wrote...
-snip-

Worth pointing out that people seem to have glossed over. EA does not get money for each and every time someone buys a copy from a retailer. The retailer pays for stock based on order of large quanitities. If they order as a retailer 1000 copies regardless of how many the retailer sells or resells EA get money for the entire 1000 copies so the point is kinda of mute until reordering is done then it will have an effect. The following order may only be for 600 copies for example because they have a few hundred stock to sell or resell, again EA will get the money for that entire 600. All of this is on top of money they get from DLC and with those used copies if the retailer resells 200 out of the 600 and they buy online passes EA gets money from that too. 

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 16 mars 2012 - 07:11 .

[Tovanus]

Vaktathi wrote...

Tovanus wrote...

Calling this "review bombing" is childish. There is such a thing, but that is not what this is. Review bombing is generally what occurs when someone trashes a book or movie or game they haven't read / watched / played because they're pissed at the author or publisher or something of the kind. For instance, someone says that an author has taken a political position that offends a large group, and urges a large group to go bomb their product on amazon, with the vast majority of the group not being among the market for the product in the first place.

What is happening right now is actual players of the product giving it a terrible score because they believe that the end truly devalued the ENTIRE product. You can say you disagree with it. Don't call it dishonest. Games emphasize different thing, ME games emphasized its story aspect to a huge, huge, huge degree. There are benefits to that (it created a pretty devoted fan-base from the first game onwards). There are risks to it also. Complaining about people giving it a low score is like complaining about former Lost fans warning people away from starting the series on DVD because Lost failed to answer the mysteries it set up and ended with a cop-out. Nothing wrong with that.

Flubbing the ending as bad as they did devalued, to many customers, the entire experience. Bioware deserves exactly what is happening. The one thing they have going for them is that most of these customers are loyal enough to the potential of a good ending that they won't immediately move on and will actively urge Bioware to fix it with DLC. If Bioware doesn't make use of that, then they leave this game with real brand name damage, and they deserve exactly what happens to them on metacritic or amazon.

Unfortunately there's a ton of reviews on metacritic and amazon from people who started trashing it from day 1 or even earlier, usually that never bought the game and certainly didn't have a chance to finish it before posting reviews. Hell, the whole "zomg gay sex don't let biowar turn me ******" thing crashed ME3's metacritic ratings days before the ending controversy erupted over last weekend. 

Poor ratings based on people who bought the game or at the very least actually played through it even if they pirated it are totally legitimate, but many, if not most, of these reviews are not by people who did so. 

It's abundantly clear what's driving the avalanche of bad reviews, and it is the ending. People saying that this is "review bombing" because "most people agree the game was great up until the end" are levelling a false charge. The vast majority of the negative light being cast on the game is based on people who played the game (which immediately indicates this is extremely unlikely to be "review bombing") and felt that it deserved a very low score because of how it ended.

To say that that's dishonest or childish because they liked things leading up to the ending has no merit. The fact is that an ending CAN taint a series retroactively. It's not uncommon to see television shows and movies take hard hits because of terribly done endings. If you believe that this game had a story worthy of its fans feeling invested in the narrative, then you should accept that the company took a risk in that, and they crashed and burned with a huge number of fans with how they handled the ending.

I don't know, maybe you're the kind of person who can watch a show like Lost and recommend it to a friend afterwards despite knowing how poorly the end was executed. A lot of people can't. I mean, even with Lost, they lost massive ratings in the middle seasons because huge numbers of people SUSPECTED they didn't know what they were doing with the island mysteries and wouldn't have a good ending. The believers stuck with it... and a large number of them warn others away today. Of course, by that point there's not a big impact for the people producing it, and television (unlike gaming) doesn't lend itself to ideas like DLC.

I'd add one other thing: One reason this movement exists is probably in large part because the story is uniquely vulnerable to a changed ending that requires no ret-con, or major inconsistency with its past, if they use the indoctrination theory:



That's not something you're likely to find in many other situations. If the ending had been just as bad, but there was no good interpretation that would have allowed a re-do of it, I think you'd be seeing a lot more apathy (which would probably be worse for the company because I think customers that leave with this ending in mind leave with a bad impression of Bioware, doing brand-name damage for future titles). I don't believe Bioware planned the indoctrination theory to be true, but to have such an unplanned and clearly present opportunity to "fix" things while staying consistent with the rest of the game?

They should run with it.

[M12311]

This hurts them the most.