166 réponses à ce sujet

[Jaron Oberyn]

 That's what a friend of mine told me when I tried to get them into mass effect. They didn't like having to not only choose dialogue, but watch it. They wanted to just get in and shoot stuff, and get out. I'm going through a trilogy playthrough right now and just got promoted to spectre and received my ship. I'd have to say that the contrast in dialogue control of ME1 to ME3 is disturbing. I'm enjoying how each new time I play me1/2 I finder dialogue options that I've never seen before by taking a different route in a conversation and playing a different character. Quite honestly, I'd have to say that from the intro to the point where you get your ship in ME1 had more dialogue control than all of Me3, in the "RPG" mode. 

Im going to enjoy ME1/2 as I go through them again and craft an entirely unique Shepard, but I'm not looking forward to ME3 where my character that I've establish over two games is railroaded into a specific character with less player control, who breaks character throughout the game through things such as forced friendships, or saying things that contradict previous actions in previous games. The rest of the game was great. I could even forgive the endings, if only the "journey" towards it wasn't so linear in terms of roleplay and dialogue control. 

The point of this thread is that even though they dumbed down the dialogue in the third game, it still isn't going to be enough to pull in the shooter crowd. My friend that I referred to above is a huge Gears fan. I told him how ME3 is pretty much a shooter now and how he should check it out. He looked t a few videos of it on the internet and said hell give it a pass. I asked him why, he said because there's still too much conversations. You guys took out dialogue control, but you still left the dialogue in. Just because we can't branch it doesn't mean it's more appealing to the consumers who prefer action. All you did in the end was ****** off a lot of series fans who are angry over having a canon Shepard forced down their throats. 


Even with the improved combat, this GoW fan still wasn't interested in Mass 3. So why not gear your games towards the people who would be interested in it. I don't get why people think that RPGs can't be profitable. Have you guys seen skyrims sales records? Bioware should just stick to their guns rather than trying to change formula based on what's popular with a certain consumer group. Imagine how ME3 would have been without watered down dialogue. Could have made the journey more bearable.



 -Polite

[Maria Caliban]

Amusingly, if you pick Action mode for ME 3, you have to wait longer to actually do something than the beginnings of ME 1 and ME 2.

And BioWare does love their unskipable cut-scenes.

[Jaron Oberyn]

That's why he still doesn't like it. The videos he was watching was of action mode, and it's 99% the same except for the parts in RPG mode where you make a plot decision. Controlling dialogue isn't what's pushing the shooter crowd away, it is the dialogue. My only fear is that they'll start to sacrifice story for gameplay next.

-Polite

[Icinix]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Amusingly, if you pick Action mode for ME 3, you have to wait longer to actually do something than the beginnings of ME 1 and ME 2.

And BioWare does love their unskipable cut-scenes.

So many long cutscenes in ME3 without dialogue options too...interest started to fade a few times, the RPG player in me would have been more interested with the occasional break and dialogue choice - the TPS in me would have liked to have been able to skip it.

[Terror_K]

To basically repost what I said at the N7 Academy Forums:-

I just don't see how any Mass Effect fan can be happy with the complete lack of roleplaying options, dialogue choices and the amount of auto-dialogue ME3 had. Again, 90% of the time it felt like interacting with Zaeed and Kasumi in ME2, and it boggles my mind after so many fans complained about the DLC characters not having proper conversations, now even our main crew suffer this most of the time, with Shepard responding for me with lines I'd sometimes would never have her say. This more than anything just proves to me that BioWare don't want to make proper RPGs any more and just want to do story-driven action games. Two dialogue choices almost all the time, auto-dialogue and so few Charm/Intimidate choices are, endings aside, ME3's biggest detractor. Why this aspect took such a dive from its ME1 and ME2 variants I have no idea... talk about a case of something not really being broken, yet being "fixed."

Modifié par Terror_K, 16 mars 2012 - 07:04 .

[phouria]

No matter what, i could not get a FPS'er to really enjoy ME1 or ME2. It's too slow for them. It's the same of grabbing someone who just plays street fighter and shove them in front of a game like Kotor. wont work. Works the same vice versa too: i got another friend who plays nothing but RPG's, wont touch a pad for street fighter. another guy also wont play FPS but will sit down and meander all day in Skyrim.

different strokes, different folks.

[Jaron Oberyn]

@Icinix - I agree. I got bored several times in the conversations on ME3, especially on my second playthrough since it was exactly the same minus 1 or 2 line differences. The squad interaction as well, all linear.

@Jreezy - only if you start a new game in me3. If you import, it goes straight to rpg mode.


-Polite

[Terror_K]

jreezy wrote...

Something must be wrong with my copy of ME3 because I haven't even seen RPG, Story, and Action mode options.

They changed it slightly at the last minute and split it between combat difficulty (which if you go back enough has a "Narrative" difficulty) and the Narrative/Decisions tab.

Edit: Ah, I see Polite has noted something else I didn't know about that aspect since I never started a new game (and never will). Never mind.

Modifié par Terror_K, 16 mars 2012 - 07:08 .

[Jaron Oberyn]

@TerrorK - well they said they wanted to have less interaction to make it like Uncharted 2. That's the only thing we can find from them that justifies the reduction of player control. Problem is, like you said, the system wasn't broken and was a major series feature. Additionally, this is a Role Playing game. Taking out the role playing elements in the last game when it was in the first two is counter productive. It negates the whole experience. Pretty much no matter what Shepard you made in me1/2, theyre all forced into a canon Shepard in Me3.

-Polite

[MelfinaofOutlawStar]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

That's why he still doesn't like it. The videos he was watching was of action mode, and it's 99% the same except for the parts in RPG mode where you make a plot decision. Controlling dialogue isn't what's pushing the shooter crowd away, it is the dialogue. My only fear is that they'll start to sacrifice story for gameplay next.

-Polite

No ending spoilers(I timestamped it after those). If you haven't beaten the game and don't want random(albeit, unimportant to the main story) scenes ruined stop before 1:30.
http://www.youtube.c...gwvj8N8ew#t=75s

[Zealuu]

This is sort of what I'¨ve been saying all along. Even if someone who only wants to shoot men in the face decides to pick up Mass Effect, the problem won't be controlling the dialogue, it'll be the fact that there's so much of it.

If anything, playing in action mode removes half the interactivity of the game, which probably compounds the problem ("problem") rather than alleviating. You're left with Bioware doing their best Metal Gear Solid impression.

That said, I can't see why anyone would want to play ME purely for the shooting. Mechanically it's still to progress beyond "ok".

[StephanieBengal]

It's a pity because as much as I love the combat in Mass Effect, what I came to love about the series was "all of the talking."

Honestly, my biggest issue with the game (the ending I can live with it, though it wasn't what I was wanting) was the lack of dialogue choices.

When the first two games are very heavy on them and the third game comes out and strips them away to a certain extent...it just didn't feel right at certain times.

[tenojitsu]

This is a growing trend with studios. They are looking for mass appeal and forgetting their true fan base. FFXIII loses the combat decisions. GoW3 introduces weapons to multiplayer that don't require skill, alienating their hardcore fanbase. Now, bioware tries to make ME3 more like a shooter than an RPG. Spending time developing multiplayer rather than polishing the dialogue. Quick convos are the worst. I wanna talk to my squad mates, not the back of their heads.

What these studios fail to realize is when they try to compromise their games for gaining mass appeal, is they will never change the game enough to make the outsiders jump on board, and all the end up with is a watered down version of what their game used to be, what people loved

[Foregone_Conclusion]

Anyone ever miss the conversations in the long elevator rides? Or the small bits of dialogue waiting in the airlock for decontamination? The otherwise "seamless" experience that Mass Effect 1 brought to the table?

ME2 Sacrificed a lot of that. ME3 has none of it. Sacrificing detail to appease the "shooter" crowd, that shouldn't have been the target crowd at all to start with.

[Hunter of Legends]

Terror_K wrote...

To basically repost what I said at the N7 Academy Forums:-

I just don't see how any Mass Effect fan can be happy with the complete lack of roleplaying options, dialogue choices and the amount of auto-dialogue ME3 had. Again, 90% of the time it felt like interacting with Zaeed and Kasumi in ME2, and it boggles my mind after so many fans complained about the DLC characters not having proper conversations, now even our main crew suffer this most of the time, with Shepard responding for me with lines I'd sometimes would never have her say. This more than anything just proves to me that BioWare don't want to make proper RPGs any more and just want to do story-driven action games. Two dialogue choices almost all the time, auto-dialogue and so few Charm/Intimidate choices are, endings aside, ME3's biggest detractor. Why this aspect took such a dive from its ME1 and ME2 variants I have no idea... talk about a case of something not really being broken, yet being "fixed."

Maybe because I still get dialogue wheels just as much and that there is in fact no problem with the dialogue in that aspect. I can and still will be able to play my Shepards.

Focus on those plot hole endings.

[Esquin]

Your friend is what's wrong with gaming. Sorry but it's true. This whole attitude that a small group have that games shouldn't have story. It's really doing a lot of damage. I blame it for the Mass Effect 3 ending in a way. They tried to counter the "Anti-story" brigade with a super artsy ending that had no real concrete purpose or idea behind it.

I choose to believe that most players want story. But many developers are taking the easy way out by just making generic shooters with minimal plot. In a way they're forcing the direction of the industry then claiming thats what we really want.

[Jaron Oberyn]

Spot on Tenojitsu and Stephanie. I'm thoroughly enjoying interacting with characters in ME1 right now. To have that taken away in the third game is very.. Depressing.. Everything else was well done, except for the watered down dialogue.

-Polite

[Hunter of Legends]

Esquin wrote...

I choose to believe that most players want story. But many developers are taking the easy way out by just making generic shooters with minimal plot. In a way they're forcing the direction of the industry then claiming thats what we really want.

IF that's what sells the most units/most profits...

[Hunter of Legends]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

Spot on Tenojitsu and Stephanie. I'm thoroughly enjoying interacting with characters in ME1 right now. To have that taken away in the third game is very.. Depressing.. Everything else was well done, except for the watered down dialogue.

-Polite

Have fun on that second playthrough when you choose a different option on the dialogue wheel and it says the same thing as before.

[Jaron Oberyn]

@Esquin - no need to apologize. I found myself getting mad at him as well. Bioware stripped out dialogue control for players like him, and he's still not even interested in it. I just don't get it.

-Polite

[Hunter of Legends]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

@Esquin - no need to apologize. I found myself getting mad at him as well. Bioware stripped out dialogue control for players like him, and he's still not even interested in it. I just don't get it.

-Polite

I still don't see the issue you speak of and I'm on my Paragade Shepard already.

[Jaron Oberyn]

@Hunter Legends - second playthrough? I'm on my 21st. if you mean of Me3, I've done the second playthrough already. :/

-Polite

[Parker Kincaid]

Maybe it's been too long for me since I haven't played ME1 and ME2 in awhile but I loved ME1 when the convos took place in places like elevators/lifts. They did away with that in ME2 and I felt deprived of comedic and enjoyable side conversations. Maybe my memory is just bad but ME3 brought back that enjoyable humorous banter between squadmates that was lacking in ME2.

As far as I am concerned anyone who would say, "I didn't enjoy all the talking" shouldn't be playing Mass Effect in the first place.