166 réponses à ce sujet

[Jaron Oberyn]

@Hunter - I can't go into specifics because it's the non spoilers forum, but feel free to message me if your interested in discussing in more detail.

-Polite

Edit: I can say without going into spoiler territory that there are forced friendships with characters despite how you treated them in ME1/2. 

Modifié par PoliteAssasin, 16 mars 2012 - 07:26 .

[tenojitsu]

I wonder if bioware considers this game an RPG. I thoughts thats what I was buying, but I guess not

[Hunter of Legends]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

@Hunter Legends - second playthrough? I'm on my 21st. if you mean of Me3, I've done the second playthrough already. :/

-Polite

I mean of ME1.

How the hell have you not noticed the illusion of dialogue choice yet?

[Foregone_Conclusion]

The whole dialogue choice is technically an "RPG" mechanic. People who are into shooters (in general) aren't really into a game to make decisions that make them think about the consequences to the world around them. The mentality is to just get into the game and pull the trigger, and get on top of the leader board.

Never mind an intellectually engaging experience.

[Hunter of Legends]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

@Hunter - I can't go into specifics because it's the non spoilers forum, but feel free to message me if your interested in discussing in more detail.

-Polite

It shouldn't need spoilers.

I don't see the issue. The only real dialogue issue is that neutral has been cut out for the most part. Since that pretty much said one or the other anyway...

[Jaron Oberyn]

@Hunter - ME1 has a few instances where all choices lead to one, but those are for dialogue that has to be said. For example, to the council: you're wrong! Or I've seen them! Or The reapers are real! But there are MANY instances where even small lines such as introductions, or questions, are entirely different based on which choice you chose, paragon, neutral, or renegade. It offered a much richer dialogue experience. I'm going to miss that going into Me3 straight from 1 and 2.

-Polite

[tenojitsu]

Parker Kincaid wrote...

Maybe it's been too long for me since I haven't played ME1 and ME2 in awhile but I loved ME1 when the convos took place in places like elevators/lifts. They did away with that in ME2 and I felt deprived of comedic and enjoyable side conversations. Maybe my memory is just bad but ME3 brought back that enjoyable humorous banter between squadmates that was lacking in ME2.

As far as I am concerned anyone who would say, "I didn't enjoy all the talking" shouldn't be playing Mass Effect in the first place.

Its like people who buy call of duty then complain there was not enough dialogue. You should know what you are getting into here. ME, at least from my perspective, was a great RPG. You are right. If you don't want dialogue, don't play and RPG. Period. I agree that some of that funny side convo is back, and ate really great. Problem is that they replaced 90% of the typical mass effect type dialogue with side type dialogue

[TUHD]

*sighs* *Isn't surprised* Bioware wants the GoW and CoD crowd, but fails in getting them. Not surprising. Dunno whether to laugh or cry, since I doubt that BW will decide to drop the attempts on it and will just return to telling the story...

[MythicLegands]

There is alot of talking, I had to skip most of it because AutoShep was making me angry.( Why couldn't they leave it like ME2)

Modifié par MythicLegands, 16 mars 2012 - 07:32 .

[Hunter of Legends]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

@Hunter - ME1 has a few instances where all choices lead to one, but those are for dialogue that has to be said. For example, to the council: you're wrong! Or I've seen them! Or The reapers are real! But there are MANY instances where even small lines such as introductions, or questions, are entirely different based on which choice you chose, paragon, neutral, or renegade. It offered a much richer dialogue experience. I'm going to miss that going into Me3 straight from 1 and 2.

-Polite

There is no repeat/illusion dialogue in ME3.

ME1 has MULTIPLE instances of it. Rather glaring when you play Paragon to Renegade.

[Jaron Oberyn]

@Foregone - I don't get that either. I have all of the halo games, every one of them, and all of the CoD games since they began with the exception of MW3, and I still love RPGs. It's about variety. When every game tries to be one genre, the variety is lost and it starts to get boring. The market is oversaturated with shooters already. the game industry is starting to become like hollywood, running out of ideas.


-Polite

[Terror_K]

The ironic thing is, there's still so much dialogue in the game itself. There's a lot more banter and squaddies actually talking on missions, as well as the little conversations they have with each other and the fact they appear on The Citadel, and then all the conversations you can hear from random people on the Citadel (e.g the two asari in the Heurta Memorial Hospital that reveals a story that takes the entire game to unfold) and things like the Blasto Banner, etc.

The problem is though, there's just not enough dialogue choices or cinematic conversations. Shepard just talks far too often without input, and squadmates just rattle on too much without the camera changing or giving you a chance to choose the input. Add that to the fact that 90% of the time you only get two choices: be nice and be an ass, and that there's probably more Charm/Intimidate options in ME1 on Noveria alone than in the entirety of ME3 just adds to how anemic and lackluster the third entry is in this regard. It wasn't worth sacrificing them finally nailing the combat to have choice, roleplaying and dialogue take such a massive hit.

Personally, for me, this came near completely out of left field. The demo had me worried, but I assumed it was an anomaly of the early sections and limited size of the demo, combined with a complete lack of import stuff to add to the mix. But no... despite claims from Chris Priestly and other devs that it was a rarity and there's plenty of dialogue options in the final game, it was an outright lie and the final entry felt more like I was controlling the Shepard V.I. with it's 7% accuracy on auto-conversations and limits of only two choices rather than the Shepard I'd taken through the two prior games.

I wouldn't be surprised if adding Kinect support was largely responsible, not just for diverting resources, but so that not so many dialogue variables had to be accounted for, but even then it's pretty clear to me that this is just another case like DA2 that proves that BioWare don't want to make RPGs any more, but just want to do cinematic, story-driven action games. Kind of like almost every other developer these days, except BioWare want them slightly better written. And with the endings of ME3, even that's highly debatable these days.

Modifié par Terror_K, 16 mars 2012 - 07:35 .

[TUHD]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

@Foregone - I don't get that either. I have all of the halo games, every one of them, and all of the CoD games since they began with the exception of MW3, and I still love RPGs. It's about variety. When every game tries to be one genre, the variety is lost and it starts to get boring. The market is oversaturated with shooters already. the game industry is starting to become like hollywood, running out of ideas.


-Polite

And then comes ACTA along...

[Jaron Oberyn]

@Hunter - Me3 does have it. Now whether it's intentional or not is debatable. It could be a bug. But there were a couple of times where you had two choices to choose from and they both said the same thing. I think one for them was in the first or second level.

-Polite

[Faceless Minion]

Esquin wrote...

Your friend is what's wrong with gaming. Sorry but it's true. This whole attitude that a small group have that games shouldn't have story. It's really doing a lot of damage. I blame it for the Mass Effect 3 ending in a way. They tried to counter the "Anti-story" brigade with a super artsy ending that had no real concrete purpose or idea behind it.

I choose to believe that most players want story. But many developers are taking the easy way out by just making generic shooters with minimal plot. In a way they're forcing the direction of the industry then claiming thats what we really want.

Yes, how dare he have opinions.  Or preferences.
That totally makes him reprehensible.

The real issue here is less than intelligent loudmouths that feel their way is the only way.
Hell, that could be said to be the real issue with a lot of human woes in general.

[TRUTHMACHINE]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

 That's what a friend of mine told me when I tried to get them into mass effect. They didn't like having to not only choose dialogue, but watch it. They wanted to just get in and shoot stuff, and get out. I'm going through a trilogy playthrough right now and just got promoted to spectre and received my ship. I'd have to say that the contrast in dialogue control of ME1 to ME3 is disturbing. I'm enjoying how each new time I play me1/2 I finder dialogue options that I've never seen before by taking a different route in a conversation and playing a different character. Quite honestly, I'd have to say that from the intro to the point where you get your ship in ME1 had more dialogue control than all of Me3, in the "RPG" mode. 

Im going to enjoy ME1/2 as I go through them again and craft an entirely unique Shepard, but I'm not looking forward to ME3 where my character that I've establish over two games is railroaded into a specific character with less player control, who breaks character throughout the game through things such as forced friendships, or saying things that contradict previous actions in previous games. The rest of the game was great. I could even forgive the endings, if only the "journey" towards it wasn't so linear in terms of roleplay and dialogue control. 

The point of this thread is that even though they dumbed down the dialogue in the third game, it still isn't going to be enough to pull in the shooter crowd. My friend that I referred to above is a huge Gears fan. I told him how ME3 is pretty much a shooter now and how he should check it out. He looked t a few videos of it on the internet and said hell give it a pass. I asked him why, he said because there's still too much conversations. You guys took out dialogue control, but you still left the dialogue in. Just because we can't branch it doesn't mean it's more appealing to the consumers who prefer action. All you did in the end was ****** off a lot of series fans who are angry over having a canon Shepard forced down their throats. 


Even with the improved combat, this GoW fan still wasn't interested in Mass 3. So why not gear your games towards the people who would be interested in it. I don't get why people think that RPGs can't be profitable. Have you guys seen skyrims sales records? Bioware should just stick to their guns rather than trying to change formula based on what's popular with a certain consumer group. Imagine how ME3 would have been without watered down dialogue. Could have made the journey more bearable.



 -Polite

the point is Bioware is laying the ground work for the future. expect a next gen Bioware original IP to have no dialogue choice and no story choice period. my guess is they'll try to go the full GOW or uncharted route. strong on action and story with zero rpg elements. other then maybe weapon unlocks and upgrades. They might even make a FPS

[Carnage752]

@PoliteAssasin
It's when you talk to Anderson about leaving Earth. Both options make you say the same thing, but in different tones. Top indicated you want to stay there with him and fight. The other indicated you wanted him to come with you. Shoulda been an option where you were fine with it.

[Hunter of Legends]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

@Hunter - Me3 does have it. Now whether it's intentional or not is debatable. It could be a bug. But there were a couple of times where you had two choices to choose from and they both said the same thing. I think one for them was in the first or second level.

-Polite

It must be a bug, or you may be mistaken because all of the dialogue choices I've picked said the something different.

[Hunter of Legends]

Carnage752 wrote...

@PoliteAssasin
It's when you talk to Anderson about leaving Earth. Both options make you say the same thing, but in different tones. Top indicated you want to stay there with him and fight. The other indicated you wanted him to come with you. Shoulda been an option where you were fine with it.

ME1 doesn't even do that.

They say the EXACT same thing.

[Jaron Oberyn]

@TerrorK - exactly. I had 20 playthroughs with 20 unique shepards. They're all getting railroaded into the canon Shepard once imported into ME3. I've done two already, and they both broke character so many times I stopped counting. Its sad that they improved on customization and combat, but dumbed down the dialogue. Other than the Uncharted 2 comment, I have no idea why they did this in the last game other than to appease people like my friend.

-Polite

[Hunter of Legends]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

@TerrorK - exactly. I had 20 playthroughs with 20 unique shepards. They're all getting railroaded into the canon Shepard once imported into ME3. I've done two already, and they both broke character so many times I stopped counting. Its sad that they improved on customization and combat, but dumbed down the dialogue. Other than the Uncharted 2 comment, I have no idea why they did this in the last game other than to appease people like my friend.

-Polite

I think part of the problem is Shepard was ALWAYS the "hero"

This means in ME3 you HAVE TO work with others somehow.

[Foregone_Conclusion]

Yeah. They made the silly mistake of trying to broaden their target crowd of players by -trying- to cater to them all. Rather than just sticking 100% true to their already dedicated fan base. Dumbed the dialogue and a few other RPG elements down quite a bit. SO in a game trilogy that is supposed to be ending they tried to pull in the wrong crowd with things that really didn't need to be there.

[Jaron Oberyn]

Has nothing to do with being a hero. You can work together with people without having to be buddy buddy with them, look at that certain cameo character from that certain dlc who shows up in ME3. The fact is my Shepard was never BFFs with certain people in ME1/2, but was forced into BFF mode in ME3 through the auto dialogue.

-Polite

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

ME2 was the best in this regard. It had more automated dialog (compared to ME1), but that was just the game removing those "Illusion of choice" moments for better cinematic flow. ME3 feels way too automated in terms of dialog.

I am glad they gave Shepard character in this game, but I had hoped it did not come at the cost of control.

Modifié par Lizardviking, 16 mars 2012 - 07:44 .

[Hunter of Legends]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

Has nothing to do with being a hero. You can work together with people without having to be buddy buddy with them, look at that certain cameo character from that certain dlc who shows up in ME3. The fact is my Shepard was never BFFs with certain people in ME1/2, but was forced into BFF mode in ME3 through the auto dialogue.

-Polite

I was forced into friendships/liking them in ALL the games.


Now, here we can argue that I can just take the "Don't talk to them route".

Kinda like real life.

Modifié par Hunter of Legends, 16 mars 2012 - 07:44 .