166 réponses à ce sujet

[Jaron Oberyn]

@LizardViking - yep. And I used to argue about Me2s auto dialogue 2 years ago. (mostly from LoTSB and Arrival though) and now ME3 makes that look like child's play.

@Hunter - the forced friendships started in ME2 with Me1 squad members. The same happens in Me3 except with the ME2 squadmates this time. You weren't forc to be friends with them during ME2, which is why it breaks character. You could choose to be friends or not with most of the crew.


-Polite

[wijse]

But hey! In the end the game works better with kinect! So no sour faces!

[Hunter of Legends]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

@Hunter - the forced friendships started in ME2 with Me1 squad members. The same happens in Me3 except with the ME2 squadmates this time. You weren't forc to be friends with them during ME2, which is why it breaks character. You could choose to be friends or not with most of the crew.


-Polite

I was never given the option...

[Ryuji2]

Honestly I miss asking all the questions and such that ME1 and 2 had to offer. ME2 had less but it felt like it had a better flow than 3. Jokes were said in key moments and it felt like there was conversation between Shepard and others instead of the Zaeed/Kasumi treatment where they just say stuff and Shepard responds automatically, no dialogue wheel, nothin'.

I also miss the elevator chats a bit...

[dynastyhan13]

"I didnt enjoy all the graphics" but I bought the game anyway because I enjoy the talking.

[Arkitekt]

Oh look polite saying bad things about mass effect, and terror k unable to imagine people have different opinions than him. Hit the snooze button.

[Vosch]

I really don't understand why a renowned RPG developer would want to cater to Gears of War/Call of Duty fans in the first place. By simplifying the RPG mechanics you're alienating the RPG audience, you know, the people who supported your previous games? The Gears of War/Call of Duty audience isn't going to buy your game because guess what? They're playing Gears of War/Call of Duty. They're not going to quit playing Gears of War for your game, because it's not Gears of War and never will be.

So what do you gain by ripping out the RPG elements until it can barely be called an RPG anymore? Nothing. In the end you lose the fans who loved you for your RPG's, and the casuals who you're catering to will stick to their Gears of War and Call of Duty.

[Arkitekt]

Jesus Christ the drama, the horror. I can't stand these people.

[Kidd]

I agree with this thread. As great as ME3 was, there definitely was too little input from us to shape our Shepards. It wouldn't pull in gamers who don't enjoy dialogue either since the dialogue is still there.

phouria wrote...

No matter what, i could not get a FPS'er to really enjoy ME1 or ME2. It's too slow for them. It's the same of grabbing someone who just plays street fighter and shove them in front of a game like Kotor. wont work.

Let me blow your mind. According to 360voice, my most played game is Super Street Fighter 4 and my second most played game is Dragon Age Origins Would kill for a BioWare figher-rpg, especially something like Dragon Age vs Mass Effect x) But I digress.

[Hunter of Legends]

Arkitekt wrote...

Jesus Christ the drama, the horror. I can't stand these people.

How about the people who have grips with the endings.

I feel for Polite and Terror K but there are slightly bigger fish to fry right now.

[dynastyhan13]

fry a giant eel instead

[Maria Caliban]

Esquin wrote...

Your friend is what's wrong with gaming.

No, the idea that good storytelling involves sitting and watching cutscenes with little in the way of gameplay or player input is what's wrong with gaming.

Hunter of Legends wrote...

I feel for Polite and Terror K but there are slightly bigger fish to fry right now.

1) This is the no spoiler section. We should avoid talking about the ending.

2) There are dozens of threads in which you can talk about the ending. If that's what you want to talk about, go to one of them.

3) The idea that we can *only* talk about the ending is ludicrous. Even if the ending included Casey Hudson stepping out of the computer screen and murdering the player's dog, suggesting that the ending is the only thing of worth for discussion would still be ludicrous.

PoliteAssasin wrote...

@Hunter - ME1 has a few instances where all choices lead to one, but those are for dialogue that has to be said. For example, to the council: you're wrong! Or I've seen them! Or The reapers are real! But there are MANY instances where even small lines such as introductions, or questions, are entirely different based on which choice you chose, paragon, neutral, or renegade. It offered a much richer dialogue experience. I'm going to miss that going into Me3 straight from 1 and 2.

-Polite

Have you tried replaying and using different dialogues or are you guessing? I'm seeing far more variation in conversation than in ME 1 or ME 2.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 16 mars 2012 - 08:28 .

[Dridengx]

Maria Caliban wrote...

BioWare does love their unskipable cut-scenes.

kids like to push buttons and might miss a cut scene they wanted to see.

PoliteAssasin wrote...

Even with the improved combat, this
GoW fan still wasn't interested in Mass 3. So why not gear your games
towards the people who would be interested in it.

So your one story about one fan should make Bioware consider your opinion? lol. You obviously believe that Bioware should go back to their roots, but yet here you are am I right? They didn't lose you did they? Your idea is flawed

[Pride Demon]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

@Esquin - no need to apologize. I found myself getting mad at him as well. Bioware stripped out dialogue control for players like him, and he's still not even interested in it. I just don't get it.

-Polite

Actually I disagree with this statement. If "autodialogue" is what I think you mean then it's not for the so-called "shooter crowd", I believe the so-called "autodialogue" was inserted for another reason entirely, then again I don't like to voice opinions without having first hand knowledge, so I'll reserve judgement till I actually see the game...

*Looks at retailer store* Because I'm going to see it soon right...

EDIT: Retailer: Yes, you are! Soon™!
Me:

Seriously I recieved it about an hour after writing this post... XD

Modifié par Pride Demon, 16 mars 2012 - 01:06 .

[AkiKishi]

I showed FFXIII to a CoD playing friend not long after it was released. He loved the combat but skipped every cutscene. ME3 does not allow you do do this, actually takes more patience to sit through ME3 than many other RPGs and if you are not caring about what is happening beyond shooting stuff, well it's very boring to watch.

[Gibb_Shepard]

Definitely too much auto.

That said, if Bioware were to do a semi-defined protagonist in the future (ala Geralt of Rivia), i'd be fine with that much auto-dialogue. There just needs to be more dialogue choice, and not two bloody options.

[Nykara]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

That's why he still doesn't like it. The videos he was watching was of action mode, and it's 99% the same except for the parts in RPG mode where you make a plot decision. Controlling dialogue isn't what's pushing the shooter crowd away, it is the dialogue. My only fear is that they'll start to sacrifice story for gameplay next.

-Polite

Which totally kills the RPG of Bioware if they do

[Fishy]

Playing ME1 right now (At Feros currently) .. To be fair there's not much interaction with your companions. or Joker in ME1. Mass Effect 3 got more diversity in how conversation are triggered.

ME1 is definitely more open ended. Although it's getting a bit boring visiting planet after planet with the same  copy/paste bunker (I loved it 4 years ago but now I`m spoiled). But still give the  game more a feeling of exploration  rather than a controlled linear path you have to follow.

But nman . I forgot how much I hated it when someone used throw on you in ME1 . You just  splash on the ground. Also because of the more open ended nature of ME1 it's actually used physic on different object like crate etc.

But my biggest surprise that I had forgotten it's when I oepened the  Squad /equipement menu.  I than realized how much they streamlined this in their 2 last game. It's just insane.

[Terror_K]

Another piece of irony is The Citadel in ME3 as well. For any players that just care about combat and don't want to run around talking all the time, The Citadel in ME3 is rather clumsily done, forcing the player to quite often go to every location two to three times per visit to make sure they haven't missed anything, forcing them to stand around listening to people without going to cutscenes and with a very unintuitive journal that doesn't update in the manner the ME1 and ME2 ones did, so it isn't always clear to the player what they've done and what they need to do in their Citadel-related sidequests. It also doesn't help when half the missions you get on The Citadel want you to get the related fetch-quest item from a planet that hasn't even unlocked yet.

ME3 was pretty schizophrenic in this regard. On one hand it seemed to want to throw up combat at every opportunity and not linger too much on conversation, but on the other hand what little conversation there was there was a chore to find, forcing players to run both the Normandy and The Citadel top to bottom to the point of becoming sick of scouring two locations than in the previous two games were highlights for dialogue and non-combat fans. As a person who loved the original Citadel to the point of almost never using rapid transit, I'm actually curious what players who thought the ME1 Citadel was tedious to run about too much thought of ME3's one, because I quite frankly thought I'd never tire of The Citadel... and yet in ME3 I did. It was nice and big and felt like The Citadel again, but the execution of it was highly questionable, despite fun additions like squaddies being littered around the place.

[snackrat]

Game mediums are different, as gamers are different. That's how it should be. RPG gamers aren't any better, or any worse, than RTS gamers, or FPS. The important thing is the experience players get from their chosen genre.

BUT: because game mediums are different, they have their own target audiences. People go to those mediums for certain elements. It's dangerous work trying to snag a second demographic when, if that demographic was interested in the product's base appeal, they would already be trying it.

Look at tell of PoliteAssassin's friend disregarding Mass Effect (an RPG) as 'too talky', without much fast-paced flow from one harrowing battle to the next. Perhaps he was looking for a test of his reflexes, or the chance to prove his accuracy, and the dialogue gets in the way of that while he's raring to go?

The only way to appeal to people of demographic X (especially in an already established series with a rep for being Genre Y) is to make it Genre X. Which automatically makes demographic Y resent the product.

RPGs have starting trying to blend with action - a GenreXY mix - and to a DEGREE this has worked. However the main part of RPG is the RP - role play. If the character is preset, always feel the same, responds in set way and/or is locked into a particular fighing style/class, that, I would say, means it is not an RPG. It is a game (FPS, TPS, whatever) with levelling and upgrading elements, perhaps, but without a role, there is no play.

Railroading Shepard's dialogue and behaviour (apparent even without using Action mode) has had a serious impact on the "RP" part of RPG. Unfortunately, since there is still plenty of dialogue and unskippable cutscenes, no one is pleased - TPS crowds are irked by the constant wordy interruptions and RPG users are frustrated they do not have 'control' of their character.

[DaddyGOD]

I'm disappointed that I can't investigate things anymore, Instead of keeping me interested I pretty much just kept aiming the analog stick up-right and then pressing X.

Kinda disappointed with the conversations, but the speeches where good.

[Sundance31us]

jreezy wrote...
Something must be wrong with my copy of ME3 because I haven't even seen RPG, Story, and Action mode options.

It's where you set the difficulty level (Options - Gameplay I think); the setting is labeled "Narrative".

[TRISTAN WERBE]

Sundance31us wrote...

jreezy wrote...
Something must be wrong with my copy of ME3 because I haven't even seen RPG, Story, and Action mode options.

It's where you set the difficulty level (Options - Gameplay I think); the setting is labeled "Narrative".

if you import it dosnt give you the option for some reason