166 réponses à ce sujet

[BaladasDemnevanni]

wright1978 wrote...

Yeah really didn't like the huge increase in auto dialogue. I get that it can be of use in some circumstances(and it worked well in some parts) but i just felt it forced a canon shep into place too often that was very OOC for my shep. I remember one instance vividly where i was chatting with Traynor and i grabbed the mouse to rebut her point about shep and Shep just blithely agreed with her without input from me. Still it is very much a moot point given how bad the ending is currently.

My problem wasn't simply its increased use, but that there would actually be points where a character would ask me "How are you doing", which is a perfect prompt for interactive dialogue, and Shepard would respond completely on his own.

[wright1978]

BaladasDemnevanni wrote...

wright1978 wrote...

Yeah really didn't like the huge increase in auto dialogue. I get that it can be of use in some circumstances(and it worked well in some parts) but i just felt it forced a canon shep into place too often that was very OOC for my shep. I remember one instance vividly where i was chatting with Traynor and i grabbed the mouse to rebut her point about shep and Shep just blithely agreed with her without input from me. Still it is very much a moot point given how bad the ending is currently.

My problem wasn't simply its increased use, but that there would actually be points where a character would ask me "How are you doing", which is a perfect prompt for interactive dialogue, and Shepard would respond completely on his own.

Agree there were times there was clearly room for dialogue wheel and they just omitted it.

[Parker Kincaid]

<sarcasm>

Hmmm... ya know, I was tired of all the colour graphics on my screen when I played. "The colour graphics are too much."

</sarcasm>

[SpockLives]

Polite, I think you are spot-on with your OP. A friend of mine thinks ME1 is one of the greatest games ever, but hates ME2 because it is TOO Gears of War (he played as a Soldier in ME2). I'm going to have to tell him that ME3 has even less role-playing. Weapon customization =/= role-playing.

RPGs should allow players to play a role that we define, not force us to play the role the developers define. I want less auto-diologue (preferably none at all), no skip-proof cut-scenes, fewer cut-scenes total, and greater choice in number of dialogue options.

[Jaron Oberyn]

Couldn't agree more Spock.

-Polite

[Gatt9]

PoliteAssasin wrote...
@David shooter - yep. Ironically now they're looking at skyrim cause it did so well. It's a shame that sales seem to be the only motivating factor for bioware these days. When money is the sole incentive for your existence, you're lost.


-Polite

It's no surprise though.  Bioware is the name of a division of EA,  the entity "Bioware" is long gone.  With that in mind,  the fact that money is the only motivating factor becomes alot less surprising,  you can see that pattern in any set of EA titles post-1999 when the publisher ceased to be interested in making great games and became obsesssed with making great revenues.

.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

I know people who buy games like Halo, Gears, and stuff and skip through the cutscenes on the first playthrough. They just want to get to the shooting to get to the achievement for the chapter, then go onto matchmaking and that's it. CoD crowd hates ME multiplayer because it's "too much like Halo". CoD crowd hates Gears because playing Gears screws up their controller muscle memory. Whatever. This is why the CoD campaigns are 5 hrs long.

[Terror_K]

SpockLives wrote...

Polite, I think you are spot-on with your OP. A friend of mine thinks ME1 is one of the greatest games ever, but hates ME2 because it is TOO Gears of War (he played as a Soldier in ME2). I'm going to have to tell him that ME3 has even less role-playing. Weapon customization =/= role-playing.

RPGs should allow players to play a role that we define, not force us to play the role the developers define. I want less auto-diologue (preferably none at all), no skip-proof cut-scenes, fewer cut-scenes total, and greater choice in number of dialogue options.

The funny thing is, I'm one of those who defines an RPG more by it's statistical and mechanical elements than it's narrative, dialogue and roleplaying ones. That said, I actually like the latter more, and while ME3 may have in many ways (but not all) improved on those more statistical and mechanical elements than ME2 did and while I was calling for it to, I don't think it was worth losing so much roleplaying when it came to dialogue. I'd rather have the gameplay shallow and simple ala ME2 with more dialogue choices than deeper gameplay at the expense of them. I just never expected them to suffer to this degree.

I also have to say I find it both tragic and funny that despite BioWare's claims that this being the final part meaning that they could go nuts and make things more diverse because there's no more games to need to account for all the variables, ME3 is by all accounts the most linear of the three. Consequences from imports are near-on meaningless, there's barely any choices, the entire structure of the main quest is rigid and linear, and the ending choices themselves have no connection to your prior actions whatsoever (unless you include having X number of War Assets). I shudder to think what the other options are like given that "Full Decisions" doesn't even seem half as "full" as ME1 and ME2's player choice.

[AbsolutGrndZer0]

Foregone_Conclusion wrote...

Anyone ever miss the conversations in the long elevator rides? Or the small bits of dialogue waiting in the airlock for decontamination? The otherwise "seamless" experience that Mass Effect 1 brought to the table?

ME2 Sacrificed a lot of that. ME3 has none of it. Sacrificing detail to appease the "shooter" crowd, that shouldn't have been the target crowd at all to start with.

Yes! I totally loved the long elevator rides and the conversations my squadmates had during them.

[Darthbill52]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

 Even with the improved combat, this GoW fan still wasn't interested in Mass 3. So why not gear your games towards the people who would be interested in it. I don't get why people think that RPGs can't be profitable. Have you guys seen skyrims sales records? Bioware should just stick to their guns rather than trying to change formula based on what's popular with a certain consumer group. Imagine how ME3 would have been without watered down dialogue. Could have made the journey more bearable.



 -Polite

Yeah I am suprised with amount of auto dialouge, as well.   Yeah on a mechanics level it has improved but on a interaction level it has downgraded.   It seems like an interactive CGI movie now, I wanted to like this game and in some parts I did, they manage to include loads of humor.   But the large amounts of "auto dialogue" I could do without.  I mean I love ME1 its still my favorite out of all the three.  I have played through it ..about 10 times at least, and I know the ending is coming and I still cheer.  Its an immersive world, I love.   The sequals were more like attack of the clones and Revenge of the sith ..than Empire strikes back and Return of the jedi.  (trillogy wise)  I felt for every improvement something else got put to the back burner. This case its the interactions ..got less and less.   Maybe I am wrong and maybe i am right.  Feel Free to comment

-DB

[Gabey5]

yep even with all that auto dialogue there will always those who don't want any story or talking, but woulf rather just shoot aliens in the face. It is why games like borderlands exist

[tetrisblock4x1]

"Even with the improved combat, this GoW fan still wasn't interested in Mass 3. So why not gear your games towards the people who would be interested in it."

Why not keep going with GoW gameplay? ME3 was a much better third person shooter than ME1 was an RPG, and that goes for most of Biowares attempts at RPG gameplay.

[Mara281]

BaladasDemnevanni wrote...

wright1978 wrote...

Yeah really didn't like the huge increase in auto dialogue. I get that it can be of use in some circumstances(and it worked well in some parts) but i just felt it forced a canon shep into place too often that was very OOC for my shep. I remember one instance vividly where i was chatting with Traynor and i grabbed the mouse to rebut her point about shep and Shep just blithely agreed with her without input from me. Still it is very much a moot point given how bad the ending is currently.

My problem wasn't simply its increased use, but that there would actually be points where a character would ask me "How are you doing", which is a perfect prompt for interactive dialogue, and Shepard would respond completely on his own.

Exactly. Why are they asking if I don't get to respond? And what happened to our neutral (middle) responses? I've even done quite a few 'renegade' answers on my second playthrough that sound exactly like my paragon response, or some variation of the same thing. It's like we all have the exact same Shepard now :S

I do have to say about the Zaeed/Kasumi type conversations that I loved the ones that involved my crew mates talking to each other. It was fun to see them interact like that, like they actually knew one another. But when I want to talk to a crew member, I want to see their face. The whole point to ME was to have that personal interaction. Maybe we couldn't change exactly how something happened in the story, but at least we could change how we responded to it.

EDIT: If I want to play a shooter, I go play a shooter. I play ME because I want story and interaction, not to just shoot things.

Modifié par Mara281, 17 mars 2012 - 07:59 .

[Cainne Chapel]

Vosch wrote...

Cainne Chapel wrote...

Can someone please explain why we keep bringing up RPG etc etc into this conversation?

ME was never "Heavy WRPG" series. Yeah it had dialogue and choices like most western RPGS do, but it was always billed as I know it as a Hybrid RPG/Action game.

So really comparing Skyrim and ME to each other is a bit silly as neither game has much in common other than having an RPG label. Granted I haven't played an Elder scrolls game since Morrowind, but I never liked them oddly...

Case in Point i'm also playing Tales of Graces F right now, a standard/classic JRPG, Guess what? NO choice whatsoever in dialogue and yet i still love the game, so lets not get into this whole RPG argument again as there's MANY MANY MANY different aspects and genres of RPG gameplay.

Now I do agree alot of the auto-dialogue is a bit bothersome but I also got used to the change and my Shepards attitudes didn't actually change alll that much so it wasn't that big a deal to me, of course shepard could only really have 1 of 2.5 attitudes in the previous games.

Although I do Like that i'm not tied down by Paragon or Renegade scores in choosing dialogue this time around.

The first game was an RPG. Inventory, loads of different options to upgrade your armor and weapons as well as your squadmates, and lots of different ways you could level your character. A lot of people didn't like how some of the RPG elements were handled, but it was still an RPG. It didn't become an action game until ME2. The point is instead of polishing those RPG elements that people didn't like, they ripped those elements out entirely. This alienated their core fanbase, which is and always has been RPG players, regardless of how much they try to appeal to the casual market. Your average Call of Duty or Gears of War player isn't going to want to sit through a bunch of dialogue and cutscenes(this doesn't apply to everyone, of course, but it does for a vast majority) or do a bunch of sidequests or explore systems and planets. They just wanna get in a game and kill stuff right away without thinking, which is understandable, but it's not what RPG's are about.

See I'm going to have to disagree with you there there weren't tons of options to upgrade armor and weapons, etc etc.  and an inventory does not an RPG make.  ME2 had an inventory (and more weaponry options as well) you just couldnt access it all the time.

The first ME was a RPG/action game hybrid and while the level up system was condensed it function almost exactly the same as ME1 EXCEPT it gave you the option to elevate your powers in one of two ways instead of just minor incremental additions.

and I hardly think ME2 alienated any core fanbase, it may have alienated a few people but dont speak for everyone, I was their "core" fanbase as well, didn't alienate me, in fact I prefer ME2's gameplay to ME1 and ME3 to both as it has way more customization Options and selection of weaponry.

and sure the average COD or GOW has add by your definitionw hich I guess I can understand, but dont act like playing RPGs requires some kind of high IQ score to understand.  They really dont, all RPGS require is patience.  But then ME1 even though it had cutscenes and dialogues most of the gameplay revolved around killing things so....*Shrug*

There is also this beautiful thing about gaming in that I dont know ANY body that plays only ONE type of game... Personally anyway.

[Abirn]

Your friend is the type of person that is ruing video gaming. They are the reason we the same damn COD game coming out every year. Its the reason we couldn't have an actual ME1 style RPG for ME 2+3. These people are everything wrong with the industry today.

[Naughty Bear]

My cousin literally rims CoD. FPS lover to the bone, but even he noticed the increase in action for Mass Effect and feels slightly disappointed because of this.

[dreman9999]

Terror_K wrote...

To basically repost what I said at the N7 Academy Forums:-

I just don't see how any Mass Effect fan can be happy with the complete lack of roleplaying options, dialogue choices and the amount of auto-dialogue ME3 had. Again, 90% of the time it felt like interacting with Zaeed and Kasumi in ME2, and it boggles my mind after so many fans complained about the DLC characters not having proper conversations, now even our main crew suffer this most of the time, with Shepard responding for me with lines I'd sometimes would never have her say. This more than anything just proves to me that BioWare don't want to make proper RPGs any more and just want to do story-driven action games. Two dialogue choices almost all the time, auto-dialogue and so few Charm/Intimidate choices are, endings aside, ME3's biggest detractor. Why this aspect took such a dive from its ME1 and ME2 variants I have no idea... talk about a case of something not really being broken, yet being "fixed."

I have to ask you if you took notice that the auto dialogue doesn't apply any real persona to Shep. Their just comments or questions. The you still have a mountain of roleplaying options in the game. Hech, most of the character in the game  you have the normal dialogue choice with it. And they made the dioalogue richer with the way the way they made npc. So I don't see the problem with it at all as long as I can role play...and I did roleplay.

[byzantine horse]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

That's why he still doesn't like it. The videos he was watching was of action mode, and it's 99% the same except for the parts in RPG mode where you make a plot decision. Controlling dialogue isn't what's pushing the shooter crowd away, it is the dialogue. My only fear is that they'll start to sacrifice story for gameplay next.

-Polite

And that is why removing dialogue options is the wrong way to go about it. I don't really understand why they reduced the amount of options as much as they did. I mean you have plenty to ask and say when talking to companions or random people on the Citadel but the dialogue connected to the main plot does feel a bit thinner.

I hope that they in their next game improve on that and put more dialogue choices into the main plotline. It won't harm anyone, whether you like options or not, if they keep their "Action Mode".

[dreman9999]

Naughty Bear wrote...

My cousin literally rims CoD. FPS lover to the bone, but even he noticed the increase in action for Mass Effect and feels slightly disappointed because of this.

That Ironic because ME3 has less action in it then ME2.

[Naughty Bear]

dreman9999 wrote...

Naughty Bear wrote...

My cousin literally rims CoD. FPS lover to the bone, but even he noticed the increase in action for Mass Effect and feels slightly disappointed because of this.

That Ironic because ME3 has less action in it then ME2.

Thats his opinion.

[dreman9999]

x

Modifié par dreman9999, 17 mars 2012 - 04:10 .

[dreman9999]

Naughty Bear wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Naughty Bear wrote...

My cousin literally rims CoD. FPS lover to the bone, but even he noticed the increase in action for Mass Effect and feels slightly disappointed because of this.

That Ironic because ME3 has less action in it then ME2.

Thats his opinion.

Then he skipped a lot of stuff. The first time on the citideal, I spent a good 30 min going through it. Their more socialisation in ME3 then in ME1 and ME2. Does he check on his crew after every mission?

[Naughty Bear]

dreman9999 wrote...

Naughty Bear wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Naughty Bear wrote...

My cousin literally rims CoD. FPS lover to the bone, but even he noticed the increase in action for Mass Effect and feels slightly disappointed because of this.

That Ironic because ME3 has less action in it then ME2.

Thats his opinion.

Then he skipped a lot of stuff. The first time on the citideal, I spent a good 30 min going through it. Their more socialisation in ME3 then in ME1 and ME2. Does he check on his crew after every mission?

Yes he does. He is a slow a gamer when it comes to RPG's. A completionist i guess.

Takes his time but does every side quest but he feels that CoD and other shooters are more enjoyable and have more worthwhile and enjoyable due to multiplayer while single player is over once you finished it.

[Balbaroy]

I love the "no replayability" thing.

A) The ending wasn't that bad. Can't say much more because No-Spoiler Forum.
How many endings do you guys on this forum expect that the END of a trilogy would have. Keep in mind, this is the last Mass Effect for Shepard (or so we've been led to believe). The replayability should not be hindered because the end of the trilogy ended in a similar fashion to the end of any series.

The means is what Mass Effect what it is. The End is just that, the End of Mass Effect as it was known, there aren't going to be 5,000,000 ways to end the trilogy, there aren't any cliffhangers, the series ends. As it should.

*Dons flame suit*

[Toyou4you]

I like that Shepard talks more. Sure, it's dissapointing compared to the last two games, but it gives Shepard more depth in my opinion.