166 réponses à ce sujet

[Welsh Inferno]

This and the endings are pretty much the only thing that annoy the hell out of me with this game. I created 9 unique Shepards so I could play through ME3 and have their unique personality's play a part in conversations. Wasted my time it seems as 2 playthrough's and you could easily have seen all the dialogue available in ME3.

[tonnactus]

Hunter of Legends wrote...
I can and still will be able to play my Shepards.

My shepard never cared about Thane/Miranda dieing and wouldnt call the crazy hanar a big stupid jellyfish. Yet the game decide to let "my shepard" say this things. My shepard also didnt understand why some admirals seem to think they could gave me orders as a council spectre...
And he would never say: We fight or we die,thats the plan.

Just some examples out of many.

Modifié par tonnactus, 18 mars 2012 - 05:10 .

[tonnactus]

Terror_K wrote...
 And with the endings of ME3, even that's highly debatable these days.

Even Gears of War had an ending that had a conclusion...
Not the stranded normandy in the jungle crap.

[RVallant]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

-Polite

Shooter CODittes can go fly a kite to be honest.

At the same time, so can some of the hardcore 'rpgz', 'dialogue' nut hanging around BSN.

I think the 'auto-dialogue' actually let the conversations flow smoother, in fact I think the conversation options throughout the trilogy evolved for that.

The first game is the 'establishing' game, you're fleshing out the character, his morality, he's inquistive, finding out the history and culture and decisions of the entire galaxy. By the second it's toned down, by the third the action's ramped up, the need for 'fleshing out and specifics' isn't really that strong anymore.

I think there's a feel for Shepard throughout the entire three games, a 'core' personality and concept that is true regardless of your decisions and conversation options. They, in my view, translated that decently to the big screen for 3, but YMMV.

I'm also more impressed that they took on board criticism about ME2. 2 is the shooter crowd game imo since, 3 has expanded on conversations, tighter knit squad storylines and ambient conversations that actually have a point or matter to the game.

As long as they stick to evolving the conversations and dialogue wheel with the evolution of their brand of action-rpg I'm sure they'll keep providing good stories and plots to keep me interested. If they really want to go for the shootan crowd, they're going to have to accept they'll wipe out their RPG and story fan-base.

[TheRealJayDee]

RVallant wrote...

I think the 'auto-dialogue' actually let the conversations flow smoother, in fact I think the conversation options throughout the trilogy evolved for that.

The first game is the 'establishing' game, you're fleshing out the character, his morality, he's inquistive, finding out the history and culture and decisions of the entire galaxy. By the second it's toned down, by the third the action's ramped up, the need for 'fleshing out and specifics' isn't really that strong anymore.

But that would only work if the game magically knew exactly how my Shepard would react under certain circumstances. And I can safely say it does not. It's not good to give players the ability to flesh out their characters (to a certain degree) over the course of two games only to basically remove this ability in the final game.  With the way the game handles the dialogue it's just impossible for me to play at least one of my Shepards, and I can say that from having played til about halfway through Mars once.

[KennethAFTopp]

12 hours in and I feel that this is Mass Effect 3's biggest problem, in just the first 4 hours I noted more or less five instanced where you they could've added dialogue options. I wonder if Multiplayer took away some of the budget-

[LordCrux]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

Ok first of all lord crux, nobody is villainizing anyone. Like it or not, there are different groups of gamers. If you take offense at that, then that's your prerogative. But don't go flaming people who use the correct labels to describe what they're talking about. We are dealing with specifics here.

There you go again, assuming that the majority of the human population are separated by a clear-cut line. Whether it's dialog- or action- based games, the silent majority that does not post on the internets do a little bt of both, and that's what ME caters to, not the 'shooter crowd.'

Second, stop with the "mass effect1 did this" act. Because it didn't. I'm playing through it now. There are very few instances where all dialogue choices lead to one outcome. Very few. The rest is entirely unique dialogue depending on what you say. The conversations have so many permutations based on one of the three dialogue options you choose along with subsequent choices. Mass effect 2 had some of this, but mass effect 3 lost this entirely. As someone said above, the dialogue wheel only comes up for plot decisions or to answer if your feeling happy or sad.


-Polite

Because the dialog of ME3 mostly deal with emotional moments, whereas ME1's was mostly introductory dialog to the universe. ME1's converation had idealogical debates and choosing between saving a person or getting his credits, ME3 did not. The type of scenario determines the dialog choices and format, and you don't write a story to support a format.

[Zaidra]

I think you're dead wrong about me3. You may not have as many individual routs as in me1 and me2, but that's because they focused more on Shepard's character. I've played through me1 100% four times, and me2 100% 6 times, but I'm only halfway through me3. The most noticeable thing I've found in me3 is how it's so much more character-based. There's actually emotion in the characters. Shepard shows doubt about the battle, he shows courage, the other characters show that they really do care. It's so much more realistic.

If you don't want it to be character-driven, you're playing the wrong series.

Even though there may not be quite as much choice in your dialogue, the choices that you make have a much larger impact on the game. also on sidenote, do you know how long it would take for them to make a Paragon and renegade choice that remains realistic to a human being for every single conversation? The game wouldn't be out for another year or so....

[Zaidra]

LordCrux wrote...

PoliteAssasin wrote...

Ok first of all lord crux, nobody is villainizing anyone. Like it or not, there are different groups of gamers. If you take offense at that, then that's your prerogative. But don't go flaming people who use the correct labels to describe what they're talking about. We are dealing with specifics here.

There you go again, assuming that the majority of the human population are separated by a clear-cut line. Whether it's dialog- or action- based games, the silent majority that does not post on the internets do a little bt of both, and that's what ME caters to, not the 'shooter crowd.'

Second, stop with the "mass effect1 did this" act. Because it didn't. I'm playing through it now. There are very few instances where all dialogue choices lead to one outcome. Very few. The rest is entirely unique dialogue depending on what you say. The conversations have so many permutations based on one of the three dialogue options you choose along with subsequent choices. Mass effect 2 had some of this, but mass effect 3 lost this entirely. As someone said above, the dialogue wheel only comes up for plot decisions or to answer if your feeling happy or sad.


-Polite

Because the dialog of ME3 mostly deal with emotional moments, whereas ME1's was mostly introductory dialog to the universe. ME1's converation had idealogical debates and choosing between saving a person or getting his credits, ME3 did not. The type of scenario determines the dialog choices and format, and you don't write a story to support a format.

^ this 

[Sailears]

There are still some fantastic conversations.

What they need to do is make a little more (more frequent) use of the dialogue wheel, containing some of those automatic responses into it, and also providing more neutral options.
Not too much, but more than it is now.

So it isn't bad as such, but like ME2 went too far with streamlining the player customisation aspects, ME3 has gone a little too far in streamlining the dialogue. They need to tone it back a bit and give us (the player) some more control and it would be fantastic.

Modifié par Curunen, 18 mars 2012 - 09:04 .

[KennethAFTopp]

A little late for that now aint it?

[Jaron Oberyn]

Not necessarily. I posted about this a year ago, and someone else two years ago. Obviously it did nothing, but for future story DLCs I'd like for them to expand on the dialogue control rather than continue to diminish it.

As for lord crux and the other poster above , I'll be writing my responses on that later. I'm on the go right now and am writing this on my phone. Cant write up my full response on this small screen.

-Polite

[KennethAFTopp]

honestly, I'd feel like they'd be trying to cover a 50 cal gunshot wound with a Commander Shepard Bandaid.
They'd need to fix the dialogue choices in the main game, would I pay for that, oh hell yes.

[Jaron Oberyn]

 All right Lord Crux:

First, if you honestly don't think that there are different sects of gamers, your lying to yourself. Not everyone who likes shooters likes RPGs, just like not everyone who loves racing games loves fighting games. If ME caters to the "silent minority" who like dialogue and shooting, then why remove almost all of the dialogue control but beef up the shooting? Bioware clearly stated themselves that they want CoD's crowd. Look it up. I'm not disputing whether or not there are some, and there are few, who like shooters and rpgs. I am such a person. As I stated earlier, I have ALL Halo and CoD games with the only exception of MW3. I like shooters, but I also like RPGs. It's called variety. When the company who I go to to get my RPG fix starts trying to develop shooters because CoD is making megabucks, where am I going to get my RPGs from? How am I going to vary the games I play if it's a market oversaturated with shooters?

ME3 watered down the dialogue control unnecessarily. There were many instances in the game where you could have said something, or asked something, and the option was never there, auto Shepard just kept talking. This wasn't in the middle of a battlefield, this wasn't because the ground was about to cave in around players. It was just blatant removal of dialogue control. Look at the dialogue with Conrad Verner for instance. It's pretty much all automatic. 99%. In fact, if I recall correctly you might not even have a dialogue choice at all. How is linear dialogue supposed to encourage replayability? I could play ME1/2 20 playthroughs and say unique lines depending on my character, as well as discover dialogue I never saw before. You can't do that with ME3. You can play it at most twice, because when there are dialogue variations of "I'm feeling happy" or "I'm feeling sad", on the next playthrough you can see how it turns out if your feeling sad if you chose happy. 


Now, Zaidra. That's your opinion, but the facts clearly show that ME3 has significantly less dialogue control/choices than ME1/2. It's quite obvious. I fail to see how focusing on Shepard as a character warrants linear dialogue. The whole purpose of shepard was supposed to be letting the player craft their own Commander, and personalize their character. This is what we were promised with the creation of ME1. ME1/2 delivered on that. ME3 railroads whatever Shepard you created into one specific canon character. Weren't friends with certain people in ME1/2? Too bad, you're best buddies in ME3. 

I find it amusing that you're stating because it's character driven it calls for less dialogue control. ME1/2 were character driven. Arguably ME2 more than ME1. Yet they didn't have linear dialogue. If you want linear dialogue, you're playing the wrong series, not me. It works in a series/franchise where it's been there in the beginning. But don't give 2 games of a trilogy where you can create individual characters, and then release the last game and remove player control over that character. It's not only inconsistent, it's sloppy. 

Your argument on paragon/renegade is weak as well. ME2 managed to have as much, if not more, dialogue control/options than ME1, and it was made in the same time frame ME3 was. Stop making weak excuses for the intentional removal of the dialogue/character control. I'm quite sure if they could manage branching dialogue in the first two games, they could have done it in the third. They chose not to do so, and opted for a more watered down dialogue system. They even stated in an interview that they wanted to remove dialogue control so it could be more like Uncharted 2 where you watch cutscenes. Again, doing this in a trilogy, the last act of the trilogy, where you've already had a formula for the first two games where players have established multiple characters is sloppy. I had 20 full unique playthroughs from ME1>ME2 ready for ME3 import. Theres no point in playing any of them since they're all going to be conformed to one specific Shepard in ME3 despite what I did in previous games. 


-Polite

[Fidget6]

A lot of ME3's dialogue is changed depending on whch choices you made in the first two as well as paragon/renegade interrupts. While you don't get to choose every single line this time around, because of that Shepard gets to talk a lot more and it makes scenes more cinematic in a way, so I actually don't mind it too much. And I'm one of the ones that does love exploring different dialogue options in ME1/ME2 that I had never seen before as well.

[Jaron Oberyn]

Can you show me an example of how dialogue changes based on what you said/did in previous games?



-Polite

Modifié par PoliteAssasin, 19 mars 2012 - 02:32 .

[Fidget6]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

Can you show me an example of how dialogue changes based on what you said/did in previous games?



-Polite

Err.... it's hard to find the exact scenes on Youtube, but one that sticks out in my mind is when you're going to Sur'kesh with Wrex, the conversation will be completely different depending on whether or not you destroyed Maelon's data in ME2. Also, of course who lives or dies in the suicide mission and who you romanced make huge differences. And like I said choosing to either do the paragon/renegade interrupts or not makes a pretty big difference at times. The auto dialogue does take some getting used to, I'm just saying it's not all bad, as it makes the experience more cinematic. I do wish they had kept the middle option in instead of just the top and bottom options, but oh well.....