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Should BioWare change the ending?


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#1
saracen16

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What we do in life echoes in eternity.
- Gladiator

You will be who you will be. We are our choices.
- Helios, Deus Ex

Protecting Creative Risk And Integrity: Why Mass Effect 3′s Ending Should Never Be Changed

http://0.gravatar.co...523536?s=16&r=G Mark Serrels




Kotaku AU



March 13, 2012 1:00 PM

Yesterday folks got into a bit of a kerfuffle about Mass Effect 3‘s
ending. Some were happy with it, some were angry — but many have gone
as far to say it should actually be retrospectively changed. You can
agree or disagree — but that’s where I draw the line. This rant is
completely spoiler free!

In Tsugumi Ohba’s Bakuman, the talented Mashiro and Tagaki
write manga. It is their dream to create incredible stories together;
stories that will inspire and dazzle their audience. Their nemesis is
the scheming Nanamine, a writer who idolises the combined abilities of
Mashiro and Takagi, but secretly wishes to dethrone them.
He has no writing or drawing talent to speak of — he can’t create
Manga — so in order to compete he recruits hundreds of wanna-be writers
and artists from the internet. By manipulating this hive mind he
attempts to compete with Mashiro and Takagi.
Nanamine crowdsources everything — the writing, the art, the plot,
the structure — every aspect of his manga is fine tuned to the
expectations and demands of this massive group. His work is the end
result of hours of group testing, by hundreds of informed readers. The
end result is the perfect manga — finely tuned, slickly produced,
well-constructed.
And completely, utterly sterile.

I was reminded of Bakuman as the internet bile began to surface in response to Mass Effect 3’s ending. Considering the investment gamers had in the Mass Effect trilogy, and the personal investment
many had — in their own designed protagonist and choices — some sort of
negative response was always going to be expected.
I had no issue with the negativity, because I understand. On multiple
occasions I’ve been massively disappointed in fiction. I’ve been
frustrated. I’ve been downright furious with the way certain movies,
games or books have ended.
But not once have I ever, ever suggested that the author take their work back and completely transform and change something to my own personal specifications.
Because that would be complete lunacy.
Let me reiterate — if you hated the ending of Mass Effect 3,
please continue to whinge. Continue to be angry. Please continue to
**** about how it goes against everything the series stands for —
dramatically cast your hands to the sky like a collective Darth Vader,
and scream ‘NNOOOO’ in abject despair! Absolutely, that is your right.
But it is not your right to demand that the ending be changed. You have absolutely no say in that, and that is the way it should be.

There’s a tremendous difference between arguing and discussing how Bioware should have handled Mass Effect 3’s ending, and demanding they change it. Some are too entitled to tell the difference, but it’s paramount.
A game like Mass Effect, which is clearly designed and
carefully built — with every detail of the universe accounted for —
could not bear the damage a fan-demanded change to its fiction would
create. Its integrity would collapse. This is Bioware’s story — no
matter how personal your own existence within Mass Effect’s universe is,
that existence was made possible within the confines of Bioware’s
authorial intent. Full stop. You don’t get to change that. Once a word
is said, it cannot be unsaid.
Fiction should delight us, it should broaden our horizons. It should
challenge us, make us angry — often for the wrong reasons. Fiction
should also have the propensity to disappoint us. But it must never, never pander to us.
I don’t want to engage with fiction that simply regales the story I
want it to tell. Why would I? I want to be surprised by what I
read/play/watch. Compared to other media, video game fiction is easily
the least static, but that doesn’t mean that the creative act should be
democratic — there still has to be structure. You must still react to
what a creator has made for you, and you don’t get to change that —
imagine the precedent that would set.
Once a piece of fiction is placed is complete, and released into the
wild, it must remain that way or its integrity will be desecrated.

In Bakuman, Mashiro and Tagaki write a weekly manga. They
respond to their audience, because theirs is a commercial endeavour. If
certain characters aren’t liked, they may phase them out. If a certain
story arc isn’t gaining traction, they may cut it short. But nothing is
ever changed in retrospect. Once is story is told it cannot be untold.
Mashiro and Tagaki work in isolation, fuelled by their own creative
impulse, delivering content fans are inspired and energised by. The same
audience reacts to Nanamine’s output with a dull indifference. It’s
hard to become passionate about something that’s created by committee —
something that lacks the spark of an individual voice. It can never be
original, it can never dazzle.
And that’s what we risk when we demand retrospective change by
committee — we risk derailing creative risk, we risk subverting the act
of individual creativity.
I haven’t finished Mass Effect 3 yet, but I don’t care if
Bioware’s ending completely shatters everything I hold dear about the
series. I don’t care if my Shepard starts doing the moonwalk over Reaper
corpses before engaging in a dance fight to the death with the Illusive
Man. I don’t care how ludicrous or flat out wrong Bioware’s ending to Mass Effect
is, I will accept it as canon because I shouldn’t have any choice.
Sure, I will howl at the moon with a primordial rage, maybe even snap
both discs in two, but I will never question Bioware’s authorial
integrity, because Mass Effect is Bioware’s story to tell, and I’m just going to have to deal with it.

What Mass Effect is in reality is a story that BioWare has laid out, and you only chose which version of it you see, one that aligns with your personal choices. They've also given you a load of resources and backstory in the form of a Codex and a rich and branching universe. To completely condemn the ending and ignore everything that came before it is to devalue your own experience throughout the entire trilogy. BioWare said it will be the ending of Shepard's STORY. It didn't say that it would be a traditional game ending. And don't think for one second that your choices didn't matter: throughout the entirety of Mass Effect 3, you see the impact your choices had. Your choices do matter, and all plots and subplots get their own
endings. And each plot and subplot had its own closure in the context of
the story. Hudson did NOT promise a SINGULAR ending for every single
plot because that would be bad writing (ala. Fallout 3). For example, here's my ending:

-
I saved Wrex and Maelon's data and Mordin himself in the previous
games, and that ended up with Eve getting saved during the cure
extraction procedure and saved the Krogans from the genophage. With Wrex
in charge, he wants to expand krogan territory. With Eve still alive
thanks to Maelon's data, she will act as a balancing influence.

-
I gave Tali the geth data, and I absolved her in her trial. I rescued
Legion instead of selling him to Cerberus, and I rewrote the heretics,
who became even stronger afterwards (clearly a mistake?). I saved both
the Geth and the Quarians, and Legion sacrificed himself. That left me
with both cooperating for a better future on Rannoch and ultimately geth
uploading into Quarian hardsuits so the Quarians can better adapt to
Rannoch's atmosphere.

- I saved the council. I saved Thane. And
I saved Kolyat from what he was about to do. The Salarian councillor
offered his help in the end to the war effort. The Destiny Ascension
also joined the ranks of the war assets. Thane saved the councillor from
Kai Leng and ended up dying. Both Kolyat and I were on the deathbed of
Thane. Thane dies. Beautiful ending.

- I didn't alienate Conrad
Verner. I saved Gavin Hossle's data. I helped Jenna in Chora's Den.
I retrieved the writings of Matriarch Dilinaga. I helped him on Ilium. I
see him again on the Citadel, and persuade him to join our side. He has
a thesis on dark energy with information that needs to be translated.
He calls in a favor - GAVIN HOSSLE - to help him out. Shepard gives him
ancient Asari texts to help him complete his work. He jumps in front of
Shepard and saves him from the Cerberus agent. Turns out the agent's gun
was sabotaged by Jenna, and he was left alive in the end. They both
walk into the sunset to help with the Crucible.

- I paragoned Khalisah from the beginning, up to the end. She became a war asset.

- I saved the Rachni on Noveria. I killed the Rachni on Utukku. Problem solved.

-
I destroyed the Reapers at the end. What will the Quarians do without
the Geth? What if I synthesized organics and synthetics? How will the
relationship between Quarians and Geth change?

I could go on, really, but BioWare didn't create an ending. They created a story. And that's unforgettable, unlike an ending.

Modifié par saracen16, 16 mars 2012 - 02:39 .


#2
Miphious

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So all those writing classes I took... where I was told a story was composed of a beginning, middle and end were lies? Bioware knew better than professors and published authors all along?

#3
Simpfan

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Miphious wrote...

So all those writing classes I took... where I was told a story was composed of a beginning, middle and end were lies? Bioware knew better than professors and published authors all along?


Beginning "omg reapers"
Middle "omg reapers are people"
End "die reapers die"

done and done

#4
Gruzmog

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You're argument is valid at some points although I disagree strongly on some aspects. It's not only bioware's story, it was not marketed as bioware's story. It was marketed as a definitive ending for our Shep with different outcomes and our choises would matter....

Quoting Kotaku will get you mostly ignored though. They have been damn insulting and nonsensical, totally forgoing all the arguments here. If anything quoting them makes you're point seem less valid.

Edit: basicly this is the problem: "A game like Mass Effect, which is clearly designed and
carefully built — with every detail of the universe accounted for" From you're kotaku article.

The game does not do this. The ending makes no logical sense (normandy escape, teleporting squad mates, space magic etc. etc. etc.)

The game does not follow lore: The reaper leader was the citadel... then why could he not just have opened the citadel in ME1. why does he not take control of all relays like he can, etc. etc.

They did not account for the universe they had it set in.. Its like 50% from the info from game one is thrown overboard"

So yes they can determine how the game ends. Aslong as they do give a proper account of the universe. They failed to do that.

Modifié par Gruzmog, 16 mars 2012 - 10:56 .


#5
saracen16

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Miphious wrote...

So all those writing classes I took... where I was told a story was composed of a beginning, middle and end were lies? Bioware knew better than professors and published authors all along?


No, they weren't lies, but you just don't see the point. BioWare's writers are also more than qualified writers who have degrees in this. Their intention was to give you a universe that was going through a dark and desperate time. You are a character within that universe. You could only change that universe depending on the situations that the game puts before you. The story did have a beginning, a middle, and an end. You have no more control over the story than Kasumi Goto or Thane Krios do. They are active characters within a living, breathing universe, and they act depending on the parameters of the story.

And FYI, I'm a writer, too, so don't play the "I'm a writer and know everything there is to writing" card.

Did you even bother to read the article?

#6
Umbrellamage

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Ironic that you quoted helios when the ending copies deus ex to a T.

The thing is, no one wanted a story off an ending, we wanted an ending and closure to the story. If bioware wanted to create a new story after the events it's all perfectly fine, but they should have saved that new story for DLC, or a new game.

#7
xeNNN

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i swear you already have a larger thread about this.... -_-

#8
Valah79

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Can you point me to where in this world it says "I don't have the right" to demand a change? I can demand whatever the hell I want. Bioware has the right to ignore me, and then I have the right to never buy any of their games again. It's really is that simple, new ending, or tons of revenue loss. No one's rights is being trampled in any way shape or form in this. It's just cause and effect. You give us a **** ending that's a slap in the face of all the time and money we invested in your product (not art), and don't fix it. We stop buying your other products, because I don't want to be slapped in the face again. Sorry not a masochist like that.

#9
saracen16

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Gruzmog wrote...

You're argument is valid at some points although I disagree strongly on some aspects. It's not only bioware's story, it was not marketed as bioware's story. It was marketed as a definitive ending for our Shep with different outcomes and our choises would matter....


Wow, you didn't even read my post, did you? Re-read it again. Your choices do matter.

Quoting Kotaku will get you mostly ignored though. They have been damn insulting and nonsensical, totally forgoing all the arguments here. If anything quoting them makes you're point seem less valid.


Ad hominem, much?

#10
Harbinger of Hope

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You just quoted Kotaku. Your argument is invalid.

#11
Silmane

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saracen16 wrote...

Gruzmog wrote...

You're argument is valid at some points although I disagree strongly on some aspects. It's not only bioware's story, it was not marketed as bioware's story. It was marketed as a definitive ending for our Shep with different outcomes and our choises would matter....


Wow, you didn't even read my post, did you? Re-read it again. Your choices do matter.

Quoting Kotaku will get you mostly ignored though. They have been damn insulting and nonsensical, totally forgoing all the arguments here. If anything quoting them makes you're point seem less valid.


Ad hominem, much?


Your choices DONT matter, though. At all.

#12
daguest

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Why BW should change the ending :
Image IPB
Saying you are an artist doesn't allow you to make bull**** everyone needs to like. And saying "you won't have A, B,C ending" suggest you won't have "Red Blue Green ending".

Also, the main difference between a book or movie is you can't change anything about it. The whole purpose of a RPG is to be able to change the story. But yet, it seems some people don't want us to do so.

Modifié par daguest, 16 mars 2012 - 10:57 .


#13
LegendaryBlade

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Guys, read Saracan's other thread. He's going to try half-heartidly for a few pages then devolve in to insults. If you do make a post with points he can't refute he'll just pull out what of it he can and ignore the rest of it.

The fact he couldn't just keep this to his one original thread is telling enough. I'm going to bed.

EDIT: 
http://social.biowar...index/9932540/8 

Modifié par LegendaryBlade, 16 mars 2012 - 10:59 .


#14
Alsuras

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From an artistic standpoint, Bioware have every right to leave things as they are. It's a poor example of their writing, the poorest I've seen actually. With plot holes and logical fallacies aplenty, but as it is their work, they can indeed leave it as it is.

I however, and I believe many others have shared this sentiment, retain the right to demand a better product from Bioware. They may well love their work, adore their games and generally be great people. But this is a business, and as in any business, the consumer has the right to expect and demand better products. Bioware can choose to leave it as it is for a variety of reasons, but it's not good business to leave fans with a bad taste in their mouth after finishing your game.

#15
Ibecomedeath

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The biggest complaint is the lies, blatant and absolute lies... Bioware has announced repeatedly our choices and actions would matter...

The ending as it stands, NOTHING matters except for the A,B or C choice that Bioware said we would NOT be presented with...

This is the reason people are wanting to see a new ending, one where our actions actually do matter a damn, mostly...

I'd also personally like to see an ending that's not some nonsensical artsy Final Fantasy-esque space-magic piece of crap that flies in the face of the entire Trilogy's dark, brooding, gritty and very realistic atmosphere, an atmosphere which had me hooked on a shooter, which I normally hate, within minutes... I would like to see an ending that actually delivers some closure to the saga, especially, if like me, you invested 150+ hours (and that's just one character, not all) to see this story unfold across the entirety of the Trilogy, with the ever present promise that our actions and decisions would be reflected, through thousands of variables, in the final moments...

I would have been satisfied to learn that despite all of the galaxy's best efforts, we still lost and the Reapers still purged this cycle, at least that would have given some closure...

Choosing which color to destroy the galaxy in, failed miserably at this and the ending is an absolute travesty, hence the chorus for it to be changed...

Modifié par Ibecomedeath, 16 mars 2012 - 10:59 .


#16
Chaota Vos

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Like I'm going to listen to some overpaid opinion columnist who is paid via advertising dollars from game publishers about what my rights are regarding a product.

If Bioware values my dollars, then it needs to value my dissatisfaction regarding the ending screwup. Because if it doesn't, it's not going to be seeing any more of either. Many share the same opinion.

#17
Total Biscuit

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Why does this tiny, TINY minority of people keep making so many threads saying the exact same thing, as if they're vastly unpopular opinion is fact?

Why not just post in one of the other 2 percenters threads if your just going to trot out the same irrelevant arguments? I suppose it makes it look like there are more of them maybe? or just that the endings only appeal to people who don't really think things through or work logically, since that describes the endings too.

It's just so annoying to get this vocal little minority filling half the forum wih the same nonesense.

#18
Sentr0

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he's really into it... just ignore him, no reason to argue with a troll

Modifié par Sentr0, 16 mars 2012 - 11:03 .


#19
Genera1Nemesis

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The entire game was the end of the story, not just the last 5 minutes.

#20
saracen16

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Valah79 wrote...

Can you point me to where in this world it says "I don't have the right" to demand a change?


I wanted Wrex as a squaddie in ME2, but that never happened. I'm fine with that because it's not my decision. Going out on a limb for the sake of example, but you probably demanded Kasumi Goto as a squadmate and LI in ME3. That didn't happen. Therefore, you had the right to complain, but evidently, you NEVER had the right to change that because, simply, you can't.

I can demand whatever the hell I want. Bioware has the right to ignore me, and then I have the right to never buy any of their games again. It's really is that simple, new ending, or tons of revenue loss.


If you read my post, you'll find that's exactly what I said.

No one's rights is being trampled in any way shape or form in this. It's just cause and effect. You give us a **** ending that's a slap in the face of all the time and money we invested in your product (not art),


It IS art. Entertainment media these days are elements of artistic expression. You can buy a music CD and rate it terribly, but that doesn't entitle you to change the music. You can buy a movie and hate it in spite of what the director promises before release, but you can't change it because it is theirs. You call it a product and therefore demean it to the status of being a blender. You think this blender is broken, but I don't because Mass Effect 3 is NOT a blender: it doesn't have a set function. It just is.

To say that it is not art is to devalue your experience in the game. You are insulting the developers and their creative talents by calling it merely "a product". You have the right to critique it and boycott them. But you can't change it because it is their product: "customer satisfaction" only works if the product is designed to do something objective, like blend tomatoes into juice. It doesn't work in this case because the game has different meaning and uses to different people. There are different crowds the game is being marketed. Some multiplayer fanatics bought it for multiplayer. And there are different markets within those who enjoy single player gameplay, single player story, etc. The list goes on, really, because the end product as an art form has different meaning to different people.

and don't fix it. We stop buying your other products, because I don't want to be slapped in the face again. Sorry not a masochist like that.


Fine. Go for it. Boycott the company, but don't think for one second that BioWare should listen to you.

#21
Gruzmog

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saracen16 wrote...

Gruzmog wrote...

You're argument is valid at some points although I disagree strongly on some aspects. It's not only bioware's story, it was not marketed as bioware's story. It was marketed as a definitive ending for our Shep with different outcomes and our choises would matter....


Wow, you didn't even read my post, did you? Re-read it again. Your choices do matter.

Quoting Kotaku will get you mostly ignored though. They have been damn insulting and nonsensical, totally forgoing all the arguments here. If anything quoting them makes you're point seem less valid.


Ad hominem, much?


That was more ment as a friendly warning then a flame, just stating a fact when saying Kotaku has lost almost all credit on these boards. I edited my original post btw.

And you're choises do not matter since Bioware insisted to make the best ending avaiable for every character no matter the choises in ME1 and 2 while I was told everyone's Shep was different and would have an ending accordingly. This should not translate to paragon = good ending and renegade = bad ending. But i should be different. I never wanted, nor expected to get the best ending on my first Shep. People made perfect playtroughs for that. But in the end it does not matter at all what you did in the previous games, ending wise in ME3

#22
Asnine112

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Reads article

Notices author didn't finish game

Notices is Saracen thread

Leaves

#23
MystaisPC

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 This may help:

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/10022779

#24
Killer3000ad

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How can people who like the ending be able to look past the utter illogical nature of Joker mysteriously being in warp when the relays go, or that Shep just took Casper's words, HOOK, LINE AND SINKER and then go,"OK i amma play your game mysterious boy."

#25
Gruzmog

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saracen16 wrote...

Fine. Go for it. Boycott the company, but don't think for one second that BioWare should listen to you.


As Forbes stated, if enough people hate the game for it, and it seems they do, they should change it because it is in their own best interest to have satisfied costumers.