[quote]Sireniankyle1 wrote...
A response to the OP concerning the A,B,C issue.
You stated that our choices do matter in the end, but all you are stating is how you raised your military strength (unless there is a quote or link to another thread, I choose to ignore it).[/quote]
You seemed to ignore the part of the OP that states HOW your choices mattered: curing the genophage, saving both the Quarians and the Geth, getting Conrad Verner hooked up, and a lot of other details you'll find in the game if you replay it.
[quote]That hardly reflects upon the ending at all.[/quote]
The ending is not in the last 5 minutes of the game. The entire game contains many of the sub-plots and plots that are continued from the previous games and ended right there. Read the OP regarding examples.
[quote]I don't see how you find that to make sense. There are other methods, and vastly different playthroughs that can get you the necessary military strength to get the exact same scenario in the end. There is A,B,C to this ending. your arguement on this is the same basis for all of your arguements. [/quote]
That's not what I said. I didn't say that every single sub-plot and plot ended in the last 10 minutes. They all ended throughout the length of the game. You didn't think that the Quarian/Geth issue got its closure prior to the final mission? It sure did. Think about it. Prior to release, the developers said that the game would have branched endings, but they did not ALL come in the last 10 minutes. The ending of the game is more like Destroy/Control/Assimilate + Quarians/Geth/Both + Genophage/Extinction + Batarian-support/Kill-Balak + Khalisah-punched/Khalisah-saved + etc./etc./etc... That makes the game entirely personal.
[quote]You constantly say "Well you don't know." How can you constantly say that about a game that gave you all the answers you needed?[/quote]
You're misinterpreting me. That's not what I said about ALL the plots. I only specifically said that about the FINALE. I said that BioWare intentionally made the last 10 minutes a cliff-hanger open to interpretation. We don't know anything about the Normandy or the other races at the last 10 minutes. We only know much about them prior to the final ending. Think about it as a final season with MANY characters. Not all of them can possibly get their closure at the last 10 minutes of the game. Some people will ask: where's Kasumi at the last 10 minutes? What about Wrex? What about, etc. etc. We got enough closure regarding the sub-plots BEFORE the final mission (see above and OP), and we do not know where everyone else is.
We know that our choices mattered because we got these plots ending in different ways throughout the Mass Effect 3 game. As for the grand finale, we don't know whether the mass relays destroyed the galaxy or not because it is clear at least that they did not get destroyed in the same way that the Alpha Relay was in Arrival. For example, their stored energy was converted by the Crucible signal, and they propelled it elsewhere as they shattered under the sheer force of this energy propagating, spreading the energy elsewhere but not in the system that the relays were in.
[quote]On the subject of the endings in general; To ignore such huge holes in the story, weakens your overall arguement. The squadmates that were left behind when you went to the crucible, do you honestly think that the normandy could swoop in and pick them up, while there are several sovereign class reapers right there, and then use the normandy's FTL drive to go away from the battle (abandoning shepard) to go absolutely nowhere?[/quote]
You see them as holes. I don't. I see
things from Shepard's eyes at the end because we are offered no other
perspective between the time Shepard landed on Earth to the Crucible's
firing. If you recall the intro, the Normandy left Earth while it was
SURROUNDED by Reapers, and it has stealth systems of its own. Not all of us know if our squaddies are alive or dead at the end of the Conduit beam run. I didn't see them on the ground in my playthrough. We
don't know where the Normandy was prior to the beam run. We don't even
know where Cortez is: in my playthrough, he was on the ground with the
shuttle making repairs after it got hit. And after Shepard goes through the Conduit, there's nothing the squad can do.
[quote]There was no fleet to rally. the entire force was in Earth's orbit, and I seriously doubt that joker is a big enough **** to run away from battle. Joker has never run from battle, and
to even state that possibility makes me doubt you as a fan.[/quote]
Since when did YOU have the monopoly on who is a fan or who is not? Anyways, that's what you think, but to address your point, here's what I think: Joker is brave but he's not a fool. He's also the best damn pilot in the Alliance fleet. He got Shepard out of the Reaper orbiting Mnemosyne. He got the squad out of the Collector Base. He got them out of Therum's collapsing Prothean ruins on a minute's notice. Shepard hasn't been in touch with the squad or the Normandy since he made his way to the Citadel via the Conduit beam. However, I have confidence that Joker got them out safely in a timely and realistic fashion.
[quote]And your entire arguement rests on the unknowns.[/quote]
No, it doesn't. I have made my own assumptions, but in reality, it is VERY CLEAR that the writer's intention meant to leave us debating like this. I doubt BioWare is stupid enough to do so given the superb quality of their writing throughout the series. Have you considered it?
[quote]You have no fact to back up your arguement. Example: the possibility of Shepard being indoctrinated. completely ridiculous, and no fact to back it up. [/quote]
Actually, there is: the sound you hear when Shepard is on the Citadel is the SAME head-boring sound that the Reapers make. Go back to ME1 on Eden Prime ("And it was making this noise" "That awful noise"). Also, if you read the Codex, you'll find out that Reaper indoctrination can occur at any rate the Reaper chooses, but the rate of decay of the subject differs depending on how fast the Reaper works its way through the subject's brain. Even if that wasn't "fact", there's no fact to suggest that Shepard wasn't indoctrinated or in the process of becoming indoctrinated. This is clearly intentional on part of BioWare... to have us jumping at each other's throats over who's right.
And it's fun.
[quote]Then there's the issue with you posting the same arguements over and over (read my OP, you're not god, you don't know, etc.). Debate also means that you present evidence rather than place yourself on repeat.[/quote]
If you read the previous pages, you'll find out that several posters repeated THEIR arguments ad infinitum without actually responding to what I just said. I had to place myself on repeat in response.
[quote]Nobody is asking BioWare to stop being artists. We're asking for them to
uphold the quality that they had maintained up to that point. The quality of the ending was poor. poorly written and executed.[/quote]
Again, that's your opinion. I thought it was masterfully executed, and it forced me to ask questions in light of what transpired in the last 100+ hours of the trilogy. I felt that it inspired me to care about the future of the galaxy that I helped shape.
[quote]You talk about ethics, and freedom, but lets talk about business. Name a business that thrives by pissing people off.[/quote]
I talk about ethics and freedom because they matter. BioWare is not a business the same way that TEFAL and BLACK&DECKER are businesses. They create different products for different purposes and for different markets. The latter two produce objective products because you want pots that actually don't break and you want microwaves that actually cook your food. However, art is subjective: directors create movies that either work or don't, and some go out of their way to create something that is different from the convention (e.g. No Country for Old Men). It works for different people. That's artistic freedom, and that can not be subjugated to the whims of the dollar. You can buy a book, read it, and eventually hate it, but you still bought the book in the first place. Same with movies and video games.
[quote]I can guarantee you that video games will not be on that list. We are consumers, and we reserve the right to demand the quality that we are promised. [/quote]
You have the right to critique and protest, but you don't have the right to force the company to change the ending. They will do whatever they wish to it. They can leave it unscathed and will not have violated any rights or committed any wrongs whatsoever. Why? Because the IP is owned by them. You are a consumer, NOT a shareholder. Big difference.
[quote]And judging from the outcry on the forums,
it's obvious that you are outnumbered. Especially on the fact that you'd rather let
BioWare take our money in exchange for sloppy writing, than for us to get what is promised.[/quote]
Again, that's your opinion and perspective. It's fallacious to say that I'm wrong because I'm outnumbered. But that doesn't necessarily make you right, either. And vice-versa. If you don't like the product, demand a refund. But don't demand that they change it solely for you. There are other fans who are not on these boards that also like the game as it is, and it is unfair to shove your desires down their throats. BioWare didn't do it for the money, and the people who worked on ME3 like Mac Walters and Casey Hudson didn't just do this for the money. They did it because they enjoyed making games, and it's unfair that you take away that freedom from them based on your own opinion or critique of their writing.
[quote]"The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one" - Spock[/quote]
Doesn't apply here. Spock's argument is out of social necessity, not consumer necessity. So, judging by that logic applied here, RTS games should all be tailored to suit the tastes of the fans of the most popular RTS franchises like Command&Conquer and Civilizations. There are those that don't follow the standard routes and excel in their own right.
What really applies is the Golden Rule: "Treat others the way you'd like to be treated". Imagine if you were an artist and you made a piece of art, be it a book,
a painting, a movie, or a video game. You didn't do it for the money.
You did it because you loved art. Some people like it, and some people
hate it. And those haters emotionally blackmail you to change it. They
antagonize you openly. You'd be terrified. Think of how Salman Rushdie
must have felt when he wrote The Satanic Verses.
[quote]To help put this whole thing into perspective; pretend that the Mass Effect series is like a job interview. The Interviewer is the customer, and the interviewee is BioWare. The entire interview doesn't matter if the interviewee slaps the interviewer at the end. He's not gonna think "well he did good up until that point. I should just ignore it." Just as we won't ignore this horrible ending.[/quote]
Bad analogy. You're comparing something objective (slapping in the face) to something subjective (the ending of Mass Effect 3). That's how YOU felt what it was: a job interview. Not me. I felt that it was an experience, where I was going in not knowing what to expect next. It felt like real life, right up to the ending. I felt that my choices did matter in my life, and that it will affect those that I saved in the order that I created.
[quote]I personally got a better ending on Punchout for NES. Now that's true sadness.[/quote]
I hated that game in the very ending. But I didn't go to the developers to force them to change it.
See? I have an opinion, too.
But at least you're discussing unlike most of the people here. Good.
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