285 réponses à ce sujet

[Genera1Nemesis]

You were never given the choice to not quit Cerberus either....what if I agreed with them?

[LucidStrike]

Genera1Nemesis wrote...

LucidStrike wrote...

Genera1Nemesis wrote...

Reapers gone, galaxy can now set it's own rules on how to develop instead of using reaper tech to build everything. How is this bad?

Screw that 'by your own bootstraps' crap. TALI AND THE QUARIANS WANT TO GO HOME. Same for the other species. Hell, even a lot of humans aren't from Earth. Shepard and I had just got done brokering GALACTIC peace, Geth and all, and now the galactic community is in RUINS. That's bad.

And those aspects could have an impact in Mass Effect as the series continues on; should Bioware want to continue the franchise seeing as how 'pleasing' everyone is obviously not possible.

The thing is that this is SUPPOSED to be the end of Shephard's story, which is fine. The issue is that Shephard's story ends with a "galactic dark age" that pretty much ruins everyone's lives for who knows how many centuries. I can appreciate darkness every so often, but I put 5 years and hunderds of hours into destroying the Reapers, brokering galactic peace, and gettin' Jack laid. That's ALL I want to happen. Shephard and I deserve that much. Put the grimdark br00tz in some 2 hour film or 700 page story I DIDN'T put all that effort into. Besides, Mass Effect had thus far been as much about hope as it was about doom.

Most important thing to understand here: In ME, we no longer think of Shephard as 'someone else'. Unlike the protagonists in most films, books, and even games, many of us have identified so strongly with Shephard over the years that we have BECOME Shepard, and who wants to see themselve's fail?

Modifié par LucidStrike, 16 mars 2012 - 11:37 .

[sadako]

Genera1Nemesis wrote...

Watch the ending again....when the Crucible starts building up the energy you see; albeit briefly; that all nearby ships are being sucked into it, like a black hole and being ripped apart. This doesn't explain how the crew got back to Normandy, but it does show WHY the Normandy jumped away at least. It was just poorly edited.

Space Magic. It explains everything.

[Nu-Nu]

saracen16 wrote...

Nu-Nu wrote...

I'm gonna be lazy and copy and pasted what I wrote in another thread about artistic intergrity (I'm a graphic designer working for a stuido and sometimes you have no control over what happens) -
I seriously doubt Bioware even had full control over their creativity. EA buisnessmen in suits who aren't trained in anything creative will stick their nose in and interfere with the creative process. No creative group who works for a corporate business which is all about making money will ever have full control over their creativity. No, such thing as creative integrity when it comes to ruthless buisnesses.
Since Bioware usually has a great track record, I can only assume EA stuck their nose in the ending.
This link is for web design, but can be used across all creative fields - theoatmeal.com/comics/design_hell Just imagine those customers as EA businessmen.

Right, so because EA has rights over part of their work means you do as well? That's an emotionally based argument, if I ever heard one.  But that isn't the case: BioWare had full rights over their own story, they put their hearts and souls and minds to it. It's clear that just like any other artistic endeavor, they didn't do it for the money. That's laudable and praise-worthy, not condemnable.

Do you own a share at BioWare, Nu-Nu? I'll answer for you: no.

My point is people who have no creative training are pulling strings, destroying any artisitc intergrity people so love to claim. Nowhere in my post did I mention my stance on it.

[Ibecomedeath]

Genera1Nemesis wrote...

Adam-Sadface wrote...

Asnine112 wrote...

Reads article

Notices author didn't finish game

Notices is Saracen thread

Leaves

A wise road to follow.

Do you understand the precedent that would set? What if a bunch of people don't like how the GTA game ends; so now fans can change the intellectual properties that someone else owns the rights to, simply by petitioning? Asking for change is one thing...demanding it is another.

I'm sorry, but when you're provided a product or service which does not live upto the promises made by the company that sells it, it is the right of the consumer to either :

Return the product, or cancel the service and obtain a full refund (not really an option here); or

Exercise their right for the product or service to be amended in order to meet what they were promised

Given the circumstances, those customers who have purchased Mass Effect 3 with the belief, based on Biowares own statements, that they would be delivered a dramatic ending to the saga which would reflect potentially thousands of variables, based on the gamut of the actions and decisions, are requesting that Bioware do nothing more than amend the current ending... They are asking for nothing more than what would normally be considered standard policy for any other product or service...

Hiding behind 'artistic license' does not work as Bioware had established a particular standard of their artwork through their public statements... All that those unhappy with the outcome are asking for, is that Bioware live upto their promised final product...

[Genera1Nemesis]

LucidStrike wrote...

Genera1Nemesis wrote...

LucidStrike wrote...

Genera1Nemesis wrote...

Reapers gone, galaxy can now set it's own rules on how to develop instead of using reaper tech to build everything. How is this bad?

Screw that 'by your own bootstraps' crap. TALI AND THE QUARIANS WANT TO GO HOME. Same for the other species. Hell, even a lot of humans aren't from Earth. Shepard and I had just got done brokering GALACTIC peace, Geth and all, and now the galactic community is in RUINS. That's bad.

And those aspects could have an impact in Mass Effect as the series continues on; should Bioware want to continue the franchise seeing as how 'pleasing' everyone is obviously not possible.

The thing is that this is SUPPOSED to be the end of Shephard's story, which is fine. The issue is that Shephard's story ends with a "galactic dark age" that pretty much ruins everyone's lives for who know how many centuries. I can appreciate darkness, but I put 5 years and hunderds of hours into destroying the Reapers, brokering galactic peace, and gettin' Jack laid. That's ALL I want to happen. Shephard and I deserve that much. Put the grimdark br00tz in some 2 hour film or 700 page story I DIDN'T put all that effort into.

Most important thing to understand here: In ME, we no longer think of Shephard as 'someone else'. Unlike the protagonists in most films, books, and even games, many of us have identified so strongly with Shephard over the years that we have BECOME Shepard, and who wants to see themselve's fail?

That's just it; you are ASSUMING that's what happened following the game. What if that's right where they want their story to begin in the next game? You want them to tell you plot of their next game 2-3 years before it even gets a trailer?

[Uezurii]

saracen16 wrote...

Uezurii wrote...

Dude the arguements you bring in about Love Interest this, love interest that, especially about the Rachni, are so irrelevant that now I actually think you're trolling.

And why are they irrelevant? Show me, if you can. Don't patronize me.

And it's you who is trolling right now.

Fact is, is that the ending of this game, see THIS GAME, not the entire trilogy, which means the last 15 minutes or so, is handled poorly. You can say whatever you want, but that wont make the plot holes go away and inconsistencies.

And what, pray tell, are these "plot holes and inconsistencies"?

Plot hole 1, after getting blasted by Harbinger and you get up again, where are the Squad mates that were right there with me? In some cases the lie there dead, in others they just dissapear, but they always run right behind shepard meaning, they will get hit too. Or they must be able to teleport, oh wait, they did, because when the Normandy crash lands, they walk out of the ship.

Which leads to plot hole 2, How did Joker get to the Mass Relay in time, while not actually knowing when the Crucible would fire and what it would do. He hasn't been in contact with Shepard since leaving Earth again to fight the space battle, neither would he Abandon that battle. So when the Crucible fires, he should logically still be next to Eart/Citadel, fighting, and he would get hit. Let's say he would actually see the blast coming, he still can't outrun the shot the Crucible fired to the Mass Relay. If you're going to say, yes he can! FTL!!, Well kind sir, FTL takes a tad to power up and activate.

Inconsistencies, Why does the Crucible tell shepard that when he would destroy the Reapers, shepard will die, yet, when you actually pick that choice, Shepard lives. The only choice where he does so.
There are more that are being discussed in the other topics, I would advice you to read trough them.

[Baronesa]

Nitpicking on analogies instead of addressing the arguments, moving the goalpost... non sequiturs... ad-homs...

You are using all the creationist tactics... bravo sir... you win da internets

[StillOverrated]

Not the point. We were promised one thing, we didn't get it.
-We were promised SIXTEEN DIFFERENT ENDINGS, not four, if you count the one where you suck and Earth is destroyed no matter what you do.
-We were promised closure. We didn't get that.
-We were promised an ending to Shepard's story. We didn't get that, either.
-We were told our decisions would matter, yet we can't even tell the Catalyst to ram it. Shepard just bends over and takes it. Which is a complete character derailment.Hell, we can't even ask it basic things like "why 50 000 years?"

How would you have felt if the Harry Potter series ended right as Harry wakes up from being Avada Kedavra'd? Or if the Lord of The Rings trilogy ended with Frodo and Sam arriving at Mordor and the rest was just "left up to interpretation"? You don't end a story on a sequel hook unless you're planning for a sequel. That's just plain bad writing.

[saracen16]

Uezurii wrote...
Yes it is, just because you start filling in the blanks and imagine the choices you made will work out fine, doesn't mean the ending wasn't A, B, C.

So, you're saying you didn't cure the genophage and those choices were not based on what was presented before? Wow, that sickens me. You're devaluing the ending of this plot. I'm not speculating. I paid attention to every single minute, email, and conversation of this game, and all the points I mentioned are present in-game.

No matter what you do, most people, or even all, we never see them escape, are killed on the Citadel, including your Conrad Verner who walked happily into the sunset.

We don't even know that those people are there. If you paid attention, Verner will go to the Crucible project, as will a lot of other people you helped. Others will join the cause, and you're left questioning their fates.

In all endings, that massive fleet you collected, are stranded next to Earth, without the resources to get home, no matter what choices you made.

And how do you know they are stranded? They have FTL drives, and they can salvage fuel on the way back to their homeworlds. Even then, there was absolutely NO indication that every single person in the entire galaxy went to Earth: each race only sent the war assets YOU collected.

The Normandy will always crash too, and magically, your squadmates that were running right behind you when Harbinger hit you, are there too.

But you don't know what happened to them. You never knew that when you landed on Ilos, that the Normandy would go all the way to the Andura sector and rally the entire Arcturus fleet to save the Citadel. You're playing from the perspective of Commander Shepard, a HUMAN, NOT a god.

While, yes, the game did end a lot of plot points, which I really enjoyed Mass Effect 3 for, the actual ending of Mass Effect 3, disregards that and will always be the same. The ending of Mass Effect 3 is completely stand alone.

How do you know that? The ending is meant to be debated, not "let's leave it at that". You've taken everything at face value, but realize that this ending is a cliff-hanger. You don't see people you know dying. You're on the damn Citadel and it's blowing up as you destroy the Reapers. You never know what happens to the Galaxy. You're left with questions, even though you have found answers to most (Quarian/Geth, Krogan and Salarians, Reaper origins, etc.) You never know if your friends will die after you do because you're not there. Same here. It leaves you wondering about them based on the choices you made: on the people you saved and the races you helped.

Your ending is personal.

[Genera1Nemesis]

Uezurii wrote...

saracen16 wrote...

Uezurii wrote...

Dude the arguements you bring in about Love Interest this, love interest that, especially about the Rachni, are so irrelevant that now I actually think you're trolling.

And why are they irrelevant? Show me, if you can. Don't patronize me.

And it's you who is trolling right now.

Fact is, is that the ending of this game, see THIS GAME, not the entire trilogy, which means the last 15 minutes or so, is handled poorly. You can say whatever you want, but that wont make the plot holes go away and inconsistencies.

And what, pray tell, are these "plot holes and inconsistencies"?

Plot hole 1, after getting blasted by Harbinger and you get up again, where are the Squad mates that were right there with me? In some cases the lie there dead, in others they just dissapear, but they always run right behind shepard meaning, they will get hit too. Or they must be able to teleport, oh wait, they did, because when the Normandy crash lands, they walk out of the ship.

Which leads to plot hole 2, How did Joker get to the Mass Relay in time, while not actually knowing when the Crucible would fire and what it would do. He hasn't been in contact with Shepard since leaving Earth again to fight the space battle, neither would he Abandon that battle. So when the Crucible fires, he should logically still be next to Eart/Citadel, fighting, and he would get hit. Let's say he would actually see the blast coming, he still can't outrun the shot the Crucible fired to the Mass Relay. If you're going to say, yes he can! FTL!!, Well kind sir, FTL takes a tad to power up and activate.

Inconsistencies, Why does the Crucible tell shepard that when he would destroy the Reapers, shepard will die, yet, when you actually pick that choice, Shepard lives. The only choice where he does so.
There are more that are being discussed in the other topics, I would advice you to read trough them.

Watch what happens to all the ships around the Citadel when the Crucible builds up its energy. Joker had at least 3-5 seconds to hit FTL; which got them to the relay just before it was destroyed. It was poor editing sure; but that part is not a plot-hole.

The squadmates being there is a plot-hole, there's no arguing that.

[wikkedjester]

You will be who you will be. We are our choices.
- Helios, Deus Ex

Yeah that’s nice and all, but what about Shepard’s (ours) choices? Everything we've done for 5 years 100's of hours. In the end all the choice was taken away from us for an ABC ending that Shepard would never just lay down and take. Shepard is our choices, good or bad, his ending should reflect that, not disregard that. 

[Subject M]

It has been said that fans helped write mass effect. And this is an interactive story, not a movie or book. We are now just offering one final helping hand, if they want to make something that allows so many of us fans can enjoy. Nothing more, nothing less.

[Comsky159]

If ending DLC is optional what's actually the problem for narrative purists? Just choose not to download; you have that power.

I was in the minority that actually liked FO3's ending, so when Broken Steel came out I just decided to turn my head and move on, happy for people who procured an ending they desired.

Those who reject the possibility of a new DLC ending are the ones who really earn the stamp of the self-entitled.

Modifié par Comsky159, 16 mars 2012 - 11:45 .

[LucidStrike]

Genera1Nemesis wrote...

LucidStrike wrote...

Genera1Nemesis wrote...

LucidStrike wrote...

Genera1Nemesis wrote...

Reapers gone, galaxy can now set it's own rules on how to develop instead of using reaper tech to build everything. How is this bad?

Screw that 'by your own bootstraps' crap. TALI AND THE QUARIANS WANT TO GO HOME. Same for the other species. Hell, even a lot of humans aren't from Earth. Shepard and I had just got done brokering GALACTIC peace, Geth and all, and now the galactic community is in RUINS. That's bad.

And those aspects could have an impact in Mass Effect as the series continues on; should Bioware want to continue the franchise seeing as how 'pleasing' everyone is obviously not possible.

The thing is that this is SUPPOSED to be the end of Shephard's story, which is fine. The issue is that Shephard's story ends with a "galactic dark age" that pretty much ruins everyone's lives for who know how many centuries. I can appreciate darkness, but I put 5 years and hunderds of hours into destroying the Reapers, brokering galactic peace, and gettin' Jack laid. That's ALL I want to happen. Shephard and I deserve that much. Put the grimdark br00tz in some 2 hour film or 700 page story I DIDN'T put all that effort into.

Most important thing to understand here: In ME, we no longer think of Shephard as 'someone else'. Unlike the protagonists in most films, books, and even games, many of us have identified so strongly with Shephard over the years that we have BECOME Shepard, and who wants to see themselve's fail?

That's just it; you are ASSUMING that's what happened following the game. What if that's right where they want their story to begin in the next game? You want them to tell you plot of their next game 2-3 years before it even gets a trailer?

Not all conjecture is false.

[Ibecomedeath]

Genera1Nemesis wrote...

That's just it; you are ASSUMING that's what happened following the game. What if that's right where they want their story to begin in the next game? You want them to tell you plot of their next game 2-3 years before it even gets a trailer?

Destruction of the Relay Network was pretty clear, or did you get some super-ultra-mega secret ending where the Mass Relay network survived allowing intergalactic travel and trade to continue outside of local systems?

All 3 endings would result in technology being reverted to, at BEST, basic FTL travel, where by it would take hundreds of years to travel across the galaxy... Chances are, given the devastation, many parts of the galaxy would regress even further...

[Genera1Nemesis]

Subject M wrote...

It has been said that fans helped write mass effect. And this is an interactive story, not a movie or book. We are now just offering one final helping hand, if they want to make something that allows so many of us fans can enjoy. Nothing more, nothing less.

That is the best attitude to have. Simply demanding change is not good for the industry as it sets a bad precedent for every other game ever made that people may not like the ending of. Asking for change is not bad; being respectful about it should be the norm, not this attitude of entitlement that people seem to have.

[Ibecomedeath]

Genera1Nemesis wrote...


Watch what happens to all the ships around the Citadel when the Crucible builds up its energy. Joker had at least 3-5 seconds to hit FTL; which got them to the relay just before it was destroyed. It was poor editing sure; but that part is not a plot-hole.

The squadmates being there is a plot-hole, there's no arguing that.

3-5 seconds to hit FTL? How the hell did he manage to swing by Earth and pickup Edi and Liara, then hig-tail it out to the Charon relay and punch it for who knows where?

Does he have a time-machine too?

[Genera1Nemesis]

Ibecomedeath wrote...

Genera1Nemesis wrote...

That's just it; you are ASSUMING that's what happened following the game. What if that's right where they want their story to begin in the next game? You want them to tell you plot of their next game 2-3 years before it even gets a trailer?

Destruction of the Relay Network was pretty clear, or did you get some super-ultra-mega secret ending where the Mass Relay network survived allowing intergalactic travel and trade to continue outside of local systems?

All 3 endings would result in technology being reverted to, at BEST, basic FTL travel, where by it would take hundreds of years to travel across the galaxy... Chances are, given the devastation, many parts of the galaxy would regress even further...

Exactly my point; what if Mass Effect 4 answers the relay question or provides an alternative. Best I can tell is the survivors still know how to build stuff; they just now need to think 'outside' the box that was provided to them by the 'villians' of the game...

[GnusmasTHX]

That Lord of the Rings and Harry Potter analogy is terrible. In both analogies, the books would have to have ended right after Voldemort kills himself, and the Ring falls into Mt. Doom, not before.

While I do agree with whatever OP is quoting about creative right, in my opinion the endings still sucked and they can be FIXED, not altered, just fixed. I want to know WHY all this random **** is happening all around me. I don't even care that the Crucible is a Deus Ex Space Magica and the Reapers were defeated by colors, it's a superweapon, IDGAF. I want to know **** like why what happens to the Normandy happens. Where the **** is Joker going? Why the **** is he going there? And so on and so forth. I can imagine **** like Shepard wakes up, heals, lives happily ever after, because that **** is at the END of the end. Joker ****s **** up during the ending so I can't headcanon my way around it. And even then, BW promised a full ending. I'm awesome enough to headcanon, but I'm not forgetting what was promised, and what BW should've delivered.

And BioWare doesn't need to change their ending, they could add on to it, more content-wise like the Indoctrination/Truth DLC, or just fix it, like I previously explained, or add new ones entirely.

Modifié par GnusmasTHX, 16 mars 2012 - 11:49 .

[Genera1Nemesis]

Ibecomedeath wrote...

Genera1Nemesis wrote...


Watch what happens to all the ships around the Citadel when the Crucible builds up its energy. Joker had at least 3-5 seconds to hit FTL; which got them to the relay just before it was destroyed. It was poor editing sure; but that part is not a plot-hole.

The squadmates being there is a plot-hole, there's no arguing that.

3-5 seconds to hit FTL? How the hell did he manage to swing by Earth and pickup Edi and Liara, then hig-tail it out to the Charon relay and punch it for who knows where?

Does he have a time-machine too?

If you know exactly how long Shep was unconscious for at the conduit please share with me please.

[LucidStrike]

Ibecomedeath wrote...

Genera1Nemesis wrote...


Watch what happens to all the ships around the Citadel when the Crucible builds up its energy. Joker had at least 3-5 seconds to hit FTL; which got them to the relay just before it was destroyed. It was poor editing sure; but that part is not a plot-hole.

The squadmates being there is a plot-hole, there's no arguing that.

3-5 seconds to hit FTL? How the hell did he manage to swing by Earth and pickup Edi and Liara, then hig-tail it out to the Charon relay and punch it for who knows where?

Does he have a time-machine too?

Also, they also have to GET to the relay before they can use it.

[Genera1Nemesis]

Genera1Nemesis wrote...

Ibecomedeath wrote...

Genera1Nemesis wrote...


Watch what happens to all the ships around the Citadel when the Crucible builds up its energy. Joker had at least 3-5 seconds to hit FTL; which got them to the relay just before it was destroyed. It was poor editing sure; but that part is not a plot-hole.

The squadmates being there is a plot-hole, there's no arguing that.

3-5 seconds to hit FTL? How the hell did he manage to swing by Earth and pickup Edi and Liara, then hig-tail it out to the Charon relay and punch it for who knows where?

Does he have a time-machine too?

If you know exactly how long Shep was unconscious for at the conduit please share with me please.

And I never argued that the squadmates being there wasn't a plot-hole. I just said the Normandy running was not....

[saracen16]

Uezurii wrote...

saracen16 wrote...

Uezurii wrote...

Dude the arguements you bring in about Love Interest this, love interest that, especially about the Rachni, are so irrelevant that now I actually think you're trolling.

And why are they irrelevant? Show me, if you can. Don't patronize me.

And it's you who is trolling right now.

Fact is, is that the ending of this game, see THIS GAME, not the entire trilogy, which means the last 15 minutes or so, is handled poorly. You can say whatever you want, but that wont make the plot holes go away and inconsistencies.

And what, pray tell, are these "plot holes and inconsistencies"?

Plot hole 1, after getting blasted by Harbinger and you get up again, where are the Squad mates that were right there with me? In some cases the lie there dead, in others they just dissapear, but they always run right behind shepard meaning, they will get hit too. Or they must be able to teleport, oh wait, they did, because when the Normandy crash lands, they walk out of the ship.

How do you know that? We don't know if they're dead. In my ending, I didn't see them on the ground and I searched diligently. Even if they did appear dead, it could have been a dream state induced by Harbinger's indoctrination. If you read the Codex, indoctrination can happen at different rates, slow and fast, but we are not given enough time to see what the latter effects of it will have on Shepard, and whether it will ultimately control him (kinda like Illusive Man in ME2). There's a big chance that they escaped, but I don't know any of that because my character was dazed and had only one goal in mind: to get to the Conduit. We don't know where the Normandy is at the beginning of the Earth mission.

Which leads to plot hole 2, How did Joker get to the Mass Relay in time, while not actually knowing when the Crucible would fire and what it would do. He hasn't been in contact with Shepard since leaving Earth again to fight the space battle, neither would he Abandon that battle. So when the Crucible fires, he should logically still be next to Eart/Citadel, fighting, and he would get hit. Let's say he would actually see the blast coming, he still can't outrun the shot the Crucible fired to the Mass Relay. If you're going to say, yes he can! FTL!!, Well kind sir, FTL takes a tad to power up and activate.

You said it yourself: YOU DON'T KNOW. You're NOT God. You're Shepard. And how do you know he won't abandon the battle? He's an organic, meaning that he will do everything it takes to save himself. So are your crew members at the end of the Conduit beam run: they were not there, and given the ending, it is likely that Joker picked them up because Shepard has made his push into the Citadel successfully. And again, how do you know whether Joker is next to Earth and the Citadel firing? You don't know that. Even if he was, and if you played ME1 and ME2 and read the codices, the Normandy has an FTL drive that needs fuel. He has plenty of it on the Normandy. The mass relays make the trip faster and most cost-effective in that they don't expend fuel. And if you noticed when the Normandy first got out of the Cerberus hangar, it powered up and within SECONDS it was @ FTL.

Inconsistencies, Why does the Crucible tell shepard that when he would destroy the Reapers, shepard will die, yet, when you actually pick that choice, Shepard lives. The only choice where he does so.
There are more that are being discussed in the other topics, I would advice you to read trough them.

It's not the Crucible. It's the CATALYST. TWO DIFFERENT COMPONENTS. Good God, if you paid attention to the ending, the destroy ending says that if he chooses to destroy the Reapers, he will not destroy only the Reapers but also the Geth, and that HE IS PARTLY SYNTHETIC. He did NOT outright tell him that he will DIE. There's a difference. Shepard is both synthetic AND organic, but predominantly organic.

So, no, I don't see any plot holes.

[Fixer5000]

Did you ever watch Wall-E?

When test screenings were showed, people were leaving the cinema depressed. From the logical conclusion of what they saw, they expected all the people that stumbled off the ship onto the barren Earth to die. A pretty sensible conclusion from the evidence we had at hand.

They fixed it by adding a short animated sequence at the end which showed humanity rebuilding earth along with the robots and life returning.

Sometimes writers screw up. The story they write is stupid, gets the wrong response and something they thought would be interesting and clever ends up as an inconsistent mess.

There's no real debate on this point here. The ME3 ending has been analysed for it's faults well enough by other people with more qualifications than I.

I expect there's a few TVtropes pages with a million examples. There's stuff in Trek like Spock's Brain and Threshold which are mentioned offhand in other canon as things that COULD NEVER HAVE HAPPENED.

You don't make something terrible that defies expectations and fails to deliver the very promises you made to the fans, just telling everyone who disagrees they're wrong.

You have the guts to admit you made a mistake at the very least. Even if you don't fix it.