285 réponses à ce sujet

[Ibecomedeath]

Genera1Nemesis wrote...


Exactly my point; what if Mass Effect 4 answers the relay question or provides an alternative. Best I can tell is the survivors still know how to build stuff; they just now need to think 'outside' the box that was provided to them by the 'villians' of the game...

And no one knows how to build the Mass Relays, they barely even understand how they work... The Protheans had only just unlocked the knowledge before they were wiped out by the Reapers, or did you forget what was discovered on Ilos?

Face it dude, you're clutching at straws here to support your stance... I get it, you're happy with the ending, just accept the vast majority do not...

[saracen16]

wikkedjester wrote...

You will be who you will be. We are our choices.
- Helios, Deus Ex

Yeah that’s nice and all, but what about Shepard’s (ours) choices? Everything we've done for 5 years 100's of hours. In the end all the choice was taken away from us for an ABC ending that Shepard would never just lay down and take. Shepard is our choices, good or bad, his ending should reflect that, not disregard that. 

Read the OP again. There is no singular ending. You will not get the graybox ending in the Reaper plot. There are many plots and subplots in the game, and to conjoin them in a convoluted mess goes against proper writing. Mass Effect is not a movie, but a serialized epic.

[Uezurii]

Genera1Nemesis wrote...

Ibecomedeath wrote...

Genera1Nemesis wrote...


Watch what happens to all the ships around the Citadel when the Crucible builds up its energy. Joker had at least 3-5 seconds to hit FTL; which got them to the relay just before it was destroyed. It was poor editing sure; but that part is not a plot-hole.

The squadmates being there is a plot-hole, there's no arguing that.

3-5 seconds to hit FTL? How the hell did he manage to swing by Earth and pickup Edi and Liara, then hig-tail it out to the Charon relay and punch it for who knows where?

Does he have a time-machine too?

If you know exactly how long Shep was unconscious for at the conduit please share with me please.

Not only that, but it is shown in ME2, when Joker runs from the Collector ship that it takes longer to charge up the FTL engine. Also, if others ships got pulled in and can't jump away, then why would the Normandy be any different?

Anyway I'm done for the moment, I lost my forum discussion virginity here, and I need to celebrate that with some food.

[LucidStrike]

saracen16 wrote...

It's not the Crucible. It's the CATALYST. TWO DIFFERENT COMPONENTS. Good God, if you paid attention to the ending, the destroy ending says that if he chooses to destroy the Reapers, he will not destroy only the Reapers but also the Geth, and that HE IS PARTLY SYNTHETIC. He did NOT outright tell him that he will DIE. There's a difference. Shepard is both synthetic AND organic, but predominantly organic.

So, no, I don't see any plot holes.

Some people do report EDI getting off the crashed Normandy AFTER the Destroy option.

[saracen16]

Ibecomedeath wrote...

Genera1Nemesis wrote...


Exactly my point; what if Mass Effect 4 answers the relay question or provides an alternative. Best I can tell is the survivors still know how to build stuff; they just now need to think 'outside' the box that was provided to them by the 'villians' of the game...

And no one knows how to build the Mass Relays, they barely even understand how they work... The Protheans had only just unlocked the knowledge before they were wiped out by the Reapers, or did you forget what was discovered on Ilos?

Face it dude, you're clutching at straws here to support your stance... I get it, you're happy with the ending, just accept the vast majority do not...

Don't demean the guy if you have nothing constructive to say. The relays were destroyed and that's that. The post-Reaper galaxy is the one you helped shape with your decisions throughout all 3 games: the Krogan genophage, the Quarian-Geth conflict, Conrad Verner, etc.. I can't think of a more powerful ending than that.

[Genera1Nemesis]

Fixer5000 wrote...

Did you ever watch Wall-E?

When test screenings were showed, people were leaving the cinema depressed. From the logical conclusion of what they saw, they expected all the people that stumbled off the ship onto the barren Earth to die. A pretty sensible conclusion from the evidence we had at hand.

They fixed it by adding a short animated sequence at the end which showed humanity rebuilding earth along with the robots and life returning.

Sometimes writers screw up. The story they write is stupid, gets the wrong response and something they thought would be interesting and clever ends up as an inconsistent mess.

There's no real debate on this point here. The ME3 ending has been analysed for it's faults well enough by other people with more qualifications than I.

I expect there's a few TVtropes pages with a million examples. There's stuff in Trek like Spock's Brain and Threshold which are mentioned offhand in other canon as things that COULD NEVER HAVE HAPPENED.

You don't make something terrible that defies expectations and fails to deliver the very promises you made to the fans, just telling everyone who disagrees they're wrong.

You have the guts to admit you made a mistake at the very least. Even if you don't fix it.

Stephen King admitted openly that many fans didn't like how he ended The Dark Tower series. There was a writing campaign and everything. You know what he did? He said it was the ending HE wanted to the story HE wrote, whether it was popular opinion or not. He wrote a book called Misery about exactly that; a fan demanding the change to a depressing ending of a book. (albeit she was crazy, but it sounds like a few people here might actually agree with her)

[saracen16]

LucidStrike wrote...

saracen16 wrote...

It's not the Crucible. It's the CATALYST. TWO DIFFERENT COMPONENTS. Good God, if you paid attention to the ending, the destroy ending says that if he chooses to destroy the Reapers, he will not destroy only the Reapers but also the Geth, and that HE IS PARTLY SYNTHETIC. He did NOT outright tell him that he will DIE. There's a difference. Shepard is both synthetic AND organic, but predominantly organic.

So, no, I don't see any plot holes.

Some people do report EDI getting off the crashed Normandy AFTER the Destroy option.

I'll believe it when I see it. I didn't see it in my ending.

[GnusmasTHX]

Uezurii wrote...

Genera1Nemesis wrote...

Ibecomedeath wrote...

Genera1Nemesis wrote...


Watch what happens to all the ships around the Citadel when the Crucible builds up its energy. Joker had at least 3-5 seconds to hit FTL; which got them to the relay just before it was destroyed. It was poor editing sure; but that part is not a plot-hole.

The squadmates being there is a plot-hole, there's no arguing that.

3-5 seconds to hit FTL? How the hell did he manage to swing by Earth and pickup Edi and Liara, then hig-tail it out to the Charon relay and punch it for who knows where?

Does he have a time-machine too?

If you know exactly how long Shep was unconscious for at the conduit please share with me please.

Also, if others ships got pulled in and can't jump away, then why would the Normandy be any different?

Look at all those buttons he's pressing! That must be it.

[garf]

Valah79 wrote...

Can you point me to where in this world it says "I don't have the right" to demand a change? I can demand whatever the hell I want. Bioware has the right to ignore me, and then I have the right to never buy any of their games again. It's really is that simple, new ending, or tons of revenue loss. No one's rights is being trampled in any way shape or form in this. It's just cause and effect. You give us a **** ending that's a slap in the face of all the time and money we invested in your product (not art), and don't fix it. We stop buying your other products, because I don't want to be slapped in the face again. Sorry not a masochist like that.

QFT QFT

enough if this elitist hipster 'Auteur' BS.

[saracen16]

Respect BioWare for what they have done for this amazing game, and just hold your breath a little longer.

Modifié par saracen16, 16 mars 2012 - 11:55 .

[saracen16]

garf wrote...

Valah79 wrote...

Can you point me to where in this world it says "I don't have the right" to demand a change? I can demand whatever the hell I want. Bioware has the right to ignore me, and then I have the right to never buy any of their games again. It's really is that simple, new ending, or tons of revenue loss. No one's rights is being trampled in any way shape or form in this. It's just cause and effect. You give us a **** ending that's a slap in the face of all the time and money we invested in your product (not art), and don't fix it. We stop buying your other products, because I don't want to be slapped in the face again. Sorry not a masochist like that.

QFT QFT

enough if this elitist hipster 'Auteur' BS.

Hey, Valah, instead of insulting it and calling it BS, why don't you argue against it for a change?

[Genera1Nemesis]

saracen16 wrote...

Ibecomedeath wrote...

Genera1Nemesis wrote...


Exactly my point; what if Mass Effect 4 answers the relay question or provides an alternative. Best I can tell is the survivors still know how to build stuff; they just now need to think 'outside' the box that was provided to them by the 'villians' of the game...

And no one knows how to build the Mass Relays, they barely even understand how they work... The Protheans had only just unlocked the knowledge before they were wiped out by the Reapers, or did you forget what was discovered on Ilos?

Face it dude, you're clutching at straws here to support your stance... I get it, you're happy with the ending, just accept the vast majority do not...

Don't demean the guy if you have nothing constructive to say. The relays were destroyed and that's that. The post-Reaper galaxy is the one you helped shape with your decisions throughout all 3 games: the Krogan genophage, the Quarian-Geth conflict, Conrad Verner, etc.. I can't think of a more powerful ending than that.

I see, so you're opinion is more important than mine. I see where this is going...

I think people who see nothing but 'doom and gloom' missed the entire point of what happened. Reapers gone, relays gone. I've seen enough sci-fi to know that mass relays aren't the only possible way to travel through space; just because they can't build relays does not mean they can't find an alternative that basically does the same thing; and isn't based around a billion year old trap to wipe out advanced life.

Oh, sorry; my opinion doesn't matter because it is in contradiction to yours. My bad...

[Ibecomedeath]

Genera1Nemesis wrote...

If you know exactly how long Shep was unconscious for at the conduit please share with me please.

If you were to judge by the radio traffic, it wasn't very long... Then Joker has to fly in, evading Reaper fire, land, pickup Liara from the FOB, then go and find EDI out on the front line...

It also then raises the question, of why just Liara? Why not the rest of my companions? Why not Wrex? Why not the Primarch? Why not load up a fairly large ship with every possible survivor he can find?

None of it makes any sense and anyone else ponder just how damn'd convenient it was for them to crash on a perfectly verdant garden world when the vast, vast, vast majority of planets (almost all) are entirely inhospitable to life...

Space magic..

[saracen16]

jreezy wrote...

Genera1Nemesis wrote...

Exactly my point; what if Mass Effect 4 answers the relay question or provides an alternative. Best I can tell is the survivors still know how to build stuff; they just now need to think 'outside' the box that was provided to them by the 'villians' of the game...

Antagonists would be a more appropriate term to use instead of "villians" which would imply that the Reapers actions have "evil" motivations when they do not.

Indeed, jreezy, and that's what scared me. We all thought they were this absolute evil and in the end we find out that their intentions are actually... somewhat... right.

[Genera1Nemesis]

jreezy wrote...

Genera1Nemesis wrote...

Exactly my point; what if Mass Effect 4 answers the relay question or provides an alternative. Best I can tell is the survivors still know how to build stuff; they just now need to think 'outside' the box that was provided to them by the 'villians' of the game...

Antagonists would be a more appropriate term to use instead of "villians" which would imply that the Reapers actions have "evil" motivations when they do not.

I know, that's why I put it in quotations, lol.

[FoxShadowblade]

I can respect that you enjoy the endings.

I cannot respect that you believe they should not be changed for the vast majoritt. If you REALLY love these...pathetic endings so much, you can simply not buy the dlc endings when they do come out.


You are fighting against a majority here, and as I have read in the previous pages, your arguments are poor and you persist past the point you should. You waste your time, I will not waste more of mine, good day.

[saracen16]

Genera1Nemesis wrote...

saracen16 wrote...

Ibecomedeath wrote...

Genera1Nemesis wrote...


Exactly my point; what if Mass Effect 4 answers the relay question or provides an alternative. Best I can tell is the survivors still know how to build stuff; they just now need to think 'outside' the box that was provided to them by the 'villians' of the game...

And no one knows how to build the Mass Relays, they barely even understand how they work... The Protheans had only just unlocked the knowledge before they were wiped out by the Reapers, or did you forget what was discovered on Ilos?

Face it dude, you're clutching at straws here to support your stance... I get it, you're happy with the ending, just accept the vast majority do not...

Don't demean the guy if you have nothing constructive to say. The relays were destroyed and that's that. The post-Reaper galaxy is the one you helped shape with your decisions throughout all 3 games: the Krogan genophage, the Quarian-Geth conflict, Conrad Verner, etc.. I can't think of a more powerful ending than that.

I see, so you're opinion is more important than mine. I see where this is going...

I think people who see nothing but 'doom and gloom' missed the entire point of what happened. Reapers gone, relays gone. I've seen enough sci-fi to know that mass relays aren't the only possible way to travel through space; just because they can't build relays does not mean they can't find an alternative that basically does the same thing; and isn't based around a billion year old trap to wipe out advanced life.

Oh, sorry; my opinion doesn't matter because it is in contradiction to yours. My bad...

Sorry, Genera1Nemesis. I didn't mean to offend you. I was in agreement with what you were saying.

[Genera1Nemesis]

Ibecomedeath wrote...

Genera1Nemesis wrote...

If you know exactly how long Shep was unconscious for at the conduit please share with me please.

If you were to judge by the radio traffic, it wasn't very long... Then Joker has to fly in, evading Reaper fire, land, pickup Liara from the FOB, then go and find EDI out on the front line...

It also then raises the question, of why just Liara? Why not the rest of my companions? Why not Wrex? Why not the Primarch? Why not load up a fairly large ship with every possible survivor he can find?

None of it makes any sense and anyone else ponder just how damn'd convenient it was for them to crash on a perfectly verdant garden world when the vast, vast, vast majority of planets (almost all) are entirely inhospitable to life...

Space magic..

it's called artisitc liscense. It's also called bad editing. I never said every aspect of the ending was good; jsut that it wasn't as bad as everyone makes it out to be. It's like everyone expected Bioware to be infallible and perfect; none of their games have ever been perfect. They've been great; never perfect. In fact, I've never played a 'perfect' video game in my life...

[GnusmasTHX]

saracen16 wrote...

jreezy wrote...

Genera1Nemesis wrote...

Exactly my point; what if Mass Effect 4 answers the relay question or provides an alternative. Best I can tell is the survivors still know how to build stuff; they just now need to think 'outside' the box that was provided to them by the 'villians' of the game...

Antagonists would be a more appropriate term to use instead of "villians" which would imply that the Reapers actions have "evil" motivations when they do not.

Indeed, jreezy, and that's what scared me. We all thought they were this absolute evil and in the end we find out that their intentions are actually... somewhat... right.

Guy spends an entire game trying to hurt us and he's not evil?

[Uezurii]

saracen16 wrote...

wikkedjester wrote...

You will be who you will be. We are our choices.
- Helios, Deus Ex

Yeah that’s nice and all, but what about Shepard’s (ours) choices? Everything we've done for 5 years 100's of hours. In the end all the choice was taken away from us for an ABC ending that Shepard would never just lay down and take. Shepard is our choices, good or bad, his ending should reflect that, not disregard that. 

Read the OP again. There is no singular ending. You will not get the graybox ending in the Reaper plot. There are many plots and subplots in the game, and to conjoin them in a convoluted mess goes against proper writing. Mass Effect is not a movie, but a serialized epic.

Yes there are many subplots in Mass Effect 3, but everyone that played this game, got 1 of  3 ending, which is still a slightly adjusted cutscene. No matter what you did before the last 15 minutes, it will always play out the same.

You are wounded after Harbinger hits you, struggle to get to the Conduit, have an all out epic battle with Marauder Shields. Enter the Conduit and land in a strange Hallway, all of a sudden anderson is there too, even though there was no one around you and the coms said that everyone was dead and no one made it, surely they could see Shepard stand up then too and right behind him Anderson trying to catch up. 

Anyway moving on, Anderson is always in front of you and get to the terminal first, Illusive man shows up, He dies and anderson dies, then a random and conviniently placed elevator starts up without making any sense. The Catalyst get's introduced, he gives you the 3 options, of which, and this is important, the destroy choice he says you will die, yet it's the only ending you live in. Already showing he is lying to you. But anyway, you pick one of these choices, and then the same FMV starts playing with slight alterations, soldiers die, soldiers live. But this isn't based on your choices, but EMS. The relays go poof, and Joker always Crash lands with the squadmates that also should have been hit by Harbinger, with the running right behind you and all.

No matter what you do, no matter what you choose, this is how the last few minutes go. Except for when you have enough EMS, pick destroy, and we see Shepard lying in stone rubble, something the Citadel isn't made out of, drawing breath again.

You can say your choices mattered, and I agree with you, troughout the game, you shaped your story, but in the last 15 minutes, you dont see anything back from that, no one does.

[saracen16]

FoxShadowblade wrote...

I can respect that you enjoy the endings.

I cannot respect that you believe they should not be changed for the vast majoritt. If you REALLY love these...pathetic endings so much, you can simply not buy the dlc endings when they do come out

Don't think that saying that they are "pathetic" makes it fact. It's opinion, and even if it's shared by a majority it's still opinion.

[Genera1Nemesis]

saracen16 wrote...

Genera1Nemesis wrote...

saracen16 wrote...

Ibecomedeath wrote...

Genera1Nemesis wrote...


Exactly my point; what if Mass Effect 4 answers the relay question or provides an alternative. Best I can tell is the survivors still know how to build stuff; they just now need to think 'outside' the box that was provided to them by the 'villians' of the game...

And no one knows how to build the Mass Relays, they barely even understand how they work... The Protheans had only just unlocked the knowledge before they were wiped out by the Reapers, or did you forget what was discovered on Ilos?

Face it dude, you're clutching at straws here to support your stance... I get it, you're happy with the ending, just accept the vast majority do not...

Don't demean the guy if you have nothing constructive to say. The relays were destroyed and that's that. The post-Reaper galaxy is the one you helped shape with your decisions throughout all 3 games: the Krogan genophage, the Quarian-Geth conflict, Conrad Verner, etc.. I can't think of a more powerful ending than that.

I see, so you're opinion is more important than mine. I see where this is going...

I think people who see nothing but 'doom and gloom' missed the entire point of what happened. Reapers gone, relays gone. I've seen enough sci-fi to know that mass relays aren't the only possible way to travel through space; just because they can't build relays does not mean they can't find an alternative that basically does the same thing; and isn't based around a billion year old trap to wipe out advanced life.

Oh, sorry; my opinion doesn't matter because it is in contradiction to yours. My bad...

Sorry, Genera1Nemesis. I didn't mean to offend you. I was in agreement with what you were saying.

Oh, sorry that wasn't directed at you. My mistake.

[saracen16]

GnusmasTHX wrote...

saracen16 wrote...

jreezy wrote...

Genera1Nemesis wrote...

Exactly my point; what if Mass Effect 4 answers the relay question or provides an alternative. Best I can tell is the survivors still know how to build stuff; they just now need to think 'outside' the box that was provided to them by the 'villians' of the game...

Antagonists would be a more appropriate term to use instead of "villians" which would imply that the Reapers actions have "evil" motivations when they do not.

Indeed, jreezy, and that's what scared me. We all thought they were this absolute evil and in the end we find out that their intentions are actually... somewhat... right.

Guy spends an entire game trying to hurt us and he's not evil?

Did you pay attention to what the Catalyst was saying? He felt he was preserving organic life by preserving it in Reaper form, leaving less advanced civilizations to develop. It had its own intentions but it's logic was clearly flawed. That doesn't make it necessarily evil. Just... wrong.

[LucidStrike]

Genera1Nemesis wrote...


Stephen King admitted openly that many fans didn't like how he ended The Dark Tower series. There was a writing campaign and everything. You know what he did? He said it was the ending HE wanted to the story HE wrote, whether it was popular opinion or not. He wrote a book called Misery about exactly that; a fan demanding the change to a depressing ending of a book. (albeit she was crazy, but it sounds like a few people here might actually agree with her)

As I said before, and neither of you two have responded to: There's such a thing as constructive criticism and feedback, and sometimes an artist cares more about their works satisfying others more than just satisfying themselves. Is that a novel concept to ya'll? Bioware probably didn't make ME3 for just artistic masturbation. They probably wanted us to enjoy it. Would it seem strange to you if they welcomed the feedback, made their own assessments, and incorporated suggestions? Some artists do that, and that doesn't make them sellouts, which seems to be what you two are implying.