285 réponses à ce sujet

[Genera1Nemesis]

Uezurii wrote...

saracen16 wrote...

wikkedjester wrote...

You will be who you will be. We are our choices.
- Helios, Deus Ex

Yeah that’s nice and all, but what about Shepard’s (ours) choices? Everything we've done for 5 years 100's of hours. In the end all the choice was taken away from us for an ABC ending that Shepard would never just lay down and take. Shepard is our choices, good or bad, his ending should reflect that, not disregard that. 

Read the OP again. There is no singular ending. You will not get the graybox ending in the Reaper plot. There are many plots and subplots in the game, and to conjoin them in a convoluted mess goes against proper writing. Mass Effect is not a movie, but a serialized epic.

Yes there are many subplots in Mass Effect 3, but everyone that played this game, got 1 of  3 ending, which is still a slightly adjusted cutscene. No matter what you did before the last 15 minutes, it will always play out the same.

You are wounded after Harbinger hits you, struggle to get to the Conduit, have an all out epic battle with Marauder Shields. Enter the Conduit and land in a strange Hallway, all of a sudden anderson is there too, even though there was no one around you and the coms said that everyone was dead and no one made it, surely they could see Shepard stand up then too and right behind him Anderson trying to catch up. 

Anyway moving on, Anderson is always in front of you and get to the terminal first, Illusive man shows up, He dies and anderson dies, then a random and conviniently placed elevator starts up without making any sense. The Catalyst get's introduced, he gives you the 3 options, of which, and this is important, the destroy choice he says you will die, yet it's the only ending you live in. Already showing he is lying to you. But anyway, you pick one of these choices, and then the same FMV starts playing with slight alterations, soldiers die, soldiers live. But this isn't based on your choices, but EMS. The relays go poof, and Joker always Crash lands with the squadmates that also should have been hit by Harbinger, with the running right behind you and all.

No matter what you do, no matter what you choose, this is how the last few minutes go. Except for when you have enough EMS, pick destroy, and we see Shepard lying in stone rubble, something the Citadel isn't made out of, drawing breath again.

You can say your choices mattered, and I agree with you, troughout the game, you shaped your story, but in the last 15 minutes, you dont see anything back from that, no one does.

Ad what exactly were your choices at the end of Mass Effect and Mass Effect 2? What lead to this 'the final decision in the game has to reflect every choice I made in the games" argument? The main plot had to go down a set path, otherwise if they make Mass Effect 4 they wouldn't have any consistency at all.

[Uezurii]

GnusmasTHX wrote...

Uezurii wrote...

Genera1Nemesis wrote...

Ibecomedeath wrote...

Genera1Nemesis wrote...


Watch what happens to all the ships around the Citadel when the Crucible builds up its energy. Joker had at least 3-5 seconds to hit FTL; which got them to the relay just before it was destroyed. It was poor editing sure; but that part is not a plot-hole.

The squadmates being there is a plot-hole, there's no arguing that.

3-5 seconds to hit FTL? How the hell did he manage to swing by Earth and pickup Edi and Liara, then hig-tail it out to the Charon relay and punch it for who knows where?

Does he have a time-machine too?

If you know exactly how long Shep was unconscious for at the conduit please share with me please.

Also, if others ships got pulled in and can't jump away, then why would the Normandy be any different?

Look at all those buttons he's pressing! That must be it.

Ofcourse!! It all makes sense now! I bet Marauder Shields actually got to warn Joker in time, to which joker could bash away to make the Normandy fly and outrun the blast and delay the outcome by mere seconds. How could we miss this!?

[Ibecomedeath]

Bah! Clearly this is pointless... I would have been happy to see the Reapers win, as long as I also witnessed that my actions actually contributed to the events at the end and that everything I did was not completely negated by a 10minute hallucination like sequence, that then forces me to choose the color the galaxy is destroyed in during a light and sound show...

The ending was cheesy, artsy nonsense that flew in the face of the entire Mass Effect Trilogy and broke lore and plot on so many levels it's a travesty... Only possible way it would make sense is that it was all an hallucination as Shepard was unconscious at the time and it was a continuation of his nightmares about the kid...

If this is the case, where is the real ending that takes into account the 'thousands of variables' that Bioware had to account for to make the ending reflect our decisions and actions?

[NUM13ER]

As soon as I seen read he hasn't seen the ending yet every word he wrote failed to matter. There are quite a few journalists who have went out of their way to dimiss, negate and outright mock the opinions of people who want Bioware's to fix this issue somehow but at least they had the decency to finish the game first. His pretentious I don't care if it's terrible fails to take into account if he had been truly upset with the end, he'd likely never have wrote a piece defening it.

So a guy makes an article about something he admits to never having experience first hand. Seemingly just to ride the popularity of the subject matter. Why should I begin to care?

Modifié par NUM13ER, 16 mars 2012 - 12:06 .

[garf]

Genera1Nemesis wrote...

Fixer5000 wrote...

Did you ever watch Wall-E?

When test screenings were showed, people were leaving the cinema depressed. From the logical conclusion of what they saw, they expected all the people that stumbled off the ship onto the barren Earth to die. A pretty sensible conclusion from the evidence we had at hand.

They fixed it by adding a short animated sequence at the end which showed humanity rebuilding earth along with the robots and life returning.

Sometimes writers screw up. The story they write is stupid, gets the wrong response and something they thought would be interesting and clever ends up as an inconsistent mess.

There's no real debate on this point here. The ME3 ending has been analysed for it's faults well enough by other people with more qualifications than I.

I expect there's a few TVtropes pages with a million examples. There's stuff in Trek like Spock's Brain and Threshold which are mentioned offhand in other canon as things that COULD NEVER HAVE HAPPENED.

You don't make something terrible that defies expectations and fails to deliver the very promises you made to the fans, just telling everyone who disagrees they're wrong.

You have the guts to admit you made a mistake at the very least. Even if you don't fix it.

Stephen King admitted openly that many fans didn't like how he ended The Dark Tower series. There was a writing campaign and everything. You know what he did? He said it was the ending HE wanted to the story HE wrote, whether it was popular opinion or not. He wrote a book called Misery about exactly that; a fan demanding the change to a depressing ending of a book. (albeit she was crazy, but it sounds like a few people here might actually agree with her)

Your comparison fails on many levels. and is insulting to me. I've never asked to change a book. nor suggested we rewrite hamlet. (though it's interesting that when Shakespeare get's modernized how some critics appluad that)

I have walked out part way through a movie though and asked for a refund.

I definitely have and will continue to send food back to the kitchen of any restaurant that cooks it badly or even gives me whitebread when I asked and was promised Gluten free bread. And there is the crux of the matter. Yes it's a creation a largely beautiful one at that. But it's also a product that I purchased based in part on promises. Promises that weren't delivered.

I'm not asking for anything I wasn't promised.
As for demanding change. Would bioware/ea Really prefer that I accept this hipster elitist 'auteur' theory that says the customer cannot complain about a product. Really? Because that leaves us with is the 'Don't like it don't buy it" argument.

Which fails because I bought this game (and arguably the games preceding it ) months in advance or trust, and promises. Faith if you will. I already bought it. and I don't like it.


The only option left if I can't get redress is to stop giving EA/Bioware my business.  I don't think Bioware really wants us to 'shut up and go away' (well maybe the do, as long as we keep purchasing like indoctrinated little sheep but that isn't going to happen)

[Genera1Nemesis]

Uezurii wrote...

GnusmasTHX wrote...

Uezurii wrote...

Genera1Nemesis wrote...

Ibecomedeath wrote...

Genera1Nemesis wrote...


Watch what happens to all the ships around the Citadel when the Crucible builds up its energy. Joker had at least 3-5 seconds to hit FTL; which got them to the relay just before it was destroyed. It was poor editing sure; but that part is not a plot-hole.

The squadmates being there is a plot-hole, there's no arguing that.

3-5 seconds to hit FTL? How the hell did he manage to swing by Earth and pickup Edi and Liara, then hig-tail it out to the Charon relay and punch it for who knows where?

Does he have a time-machine too?

If you know exactly how long Shep was unconscious for at the conduit please share with me please.

Also, if others ships got pulled in and can't jump away, then why would the Normandy be any different?

Look at all those buttons he's pressing! That must be it.

Ofcourse!! It all makes sense now! I bet Marauder Shields actually got to warn Joker in time, to which joker could bash away to make the Normandy fly and outrun the blast and delay the outcome by mere seconds. How could we miss this!?

Normandy is smaller than those larger ships, and a heck of a lot faster (fastest ship ever built as I understand it) and Joker is the best pilot ever. Now you guys are just purposely looking for the negative instead of trying to see any other outcome. In short, you have decided that you are right no matter what and there is no room for any other debate.

You win.

[iamthedave3]

saracen16 wrote...

FoxShadowblade wrote...

I can respect that you enjoy the endings.

I cannot respect that you believe they should not be changed for the vast majoritt. If you REALLY love these...pathetic endings so much, you can simply not buy the dlc endings when they do come out

Don't think that saying that they are "pathetic" makes it fact. It's opinion, and even if it's shared by a majority it's still opinion.

It doesn't make it fact, no. The endings are full of plot holes, though, which is a fact. They are badly edited, which is also a fact. Near 90% of gamers who have played this game hate the ending, this is also a fact.

Your argument boils down to: "Bioware should ignore 90% of the people who have played the game and please me instead."

None of that authorial intent BS. Videogames are not books and they're not movies. They can be changed, especially RPGs. Most games, there's no need to. The endings are serviceable at worst, good or even brilliant at best and few people would ask for a change.

One example where an ending was abysmal was Fallout 3. It was changed. Everybody was happy with the result.

[LucidStrike]

saracen16 wrote...

GnusmasTHX wrote...

saracen16 wrote...

jreezy wrote...

Antagonists would be a more appropriate term to use instead of "villians" which would imply that the Reapers actions have "evil" motivations when they do not.

Indeed, jreezy, and that's what scared me. We all thought they were this absolute evil and in the end we find out that their intentions are actually... somewhat... right.

Guy spends an entire game trying to hurt us and he's not evil?

Did you pay attention to what the Catalyst was saying? He felt he was preserving organic life by preserving it in Reaper form, leaving less advanced civilizations to develop. It had its own intentions but it's logic was clearly flawed. That doesn't make it necessarily evil. Just... wrong.

...What?! They murdered and enslaved TRILLIONS.

The real problem is that there's a huge disconnect between Sovereign (and Harbinger) and that stupid Reaper kid. Soverign, who was the only REAL bad*ss among them said something like,"Organic life is an accident. You exist because we allow it, and you will end because we demand it." The Catalyst says the Reapers are protecting us from being destroyed by creations, but the Reapers themselves WERE those creations in ME1. Sovereign was pretty blunt about having not a belevolent bone in its body. No pun intended.

I liked the Reapers better as "incomprehensible" space demons than as destructive simpletons.

Modifié par LucidStrike, 16 mars 2012 - 12:10 .

[Malchat]

First, I appreciate saracen16's dissenting opinion... it's a refreshing to have a counterpoint in the middle of this 'echo chamber of rage'.

And while I don't agree with his assessment of the ending's merits, I do support the notion that Bioware shouldn't tinker with the story any further.

My reasoning is that they thought long and hard about this, spent years developing this game and debating the possibilities for a resolution, and finally pushed forward with their best artistic effort.

I personally don't think that effort is sufficient, but I accept this is what their considerable talent pool came up with. Putting pressure on them to go back to one of their discarded alternatives, to retcon things with the risk of even more inconsistencies, or to follow-up with a whole new chapter that throws the whole narrative pacing out of whack... well, just seems silly to me.

This is the best they could do. I have to respect that... even I couldn't bring myself to enjoy the result.

Modifié par Malchat, 16 mars 2012 - 12:12 .

[iamthedave3]

Genera1Nemesis wrote...
Normandy is smaller than those larger ships, and a heck of a lot faster (fastest ship ever built as I understand it) and Joker is the best pilot ever. Now you guys are just purposely looking for the negative instead of trying to see any other outcome. In short, you have decided that you are right no matter what and there is no room for any other debate.

You win.

So you're saying that Joker chickened out of the greatest fight of his time and fled the battle unlike those heroic Alliance soldiers seen fighting against the reapers on foot during the final scene? moreover, Joker and the entire squad chickened out and fled?

[Genera1Nemesis]

garf wrote...

Genera1Nemesis wrote...

Fixer5000 wrote...

Did you ever watch Wall-E?

When test screenings were showed, people were leaving the cinema depressed. From the logical conclusion of what they saw, they expected all the people that stumbled off the ship onto the barren Earth to die. A pretty sensible conclusion from the evidence we had at hand.

They fixed it by adding a short animated sequence at the end which showed humanity rebuilding earth along with the robots and life returning.

Sometimes writers screw up. The story they write is stupid, gets the wrong response and something they thought would be interesting and clever ends up as an inconsistent mess.

There's no real debate on this point here. The ME3 ending has been analysed for it's faults well enough by other people with more qualifications than I.

I expect there's a few TVtropes pages with a million examples. There's stuff in Trek like Spock's Brain and Threshold which are mentioned offhand in other canon as things that COULD NEVER HAVE HAPPENED.

You don't make something terrible that defies expectations and fails to deliver the very promises you made to the fans, just telling everyone who disagrees they're wrong.

You have the guts to admit you made a mistake at the very least. Even if you don't fix it.

Stephen King admitted openly that many fans didn't like how he ended The Dark Tower series. There was a writing campaign and everything. You know what he did? He said it was the ending HE wanted to the story HE wrote, whether it was popular opinion or not. He wrote a book called Misery about exactly that; a fan demanding the change to a depressing ending of a book. (albeit she was crazy, but it sounds like a few people here might actually agree with her)

Your comparison fails on many levels. and is insulting to me. I've never asked to change a book. nor suggested we rewrite hamlet. (though it's interesting that when Shakespeare get's modernized how some critics appluad that)

I have walked out part way through a movie though and asked for a refund.

I definitely have and will continue to send food back to the kitchen of any restaurant that cooks it badly or even gives me whitebread when I asked and was promised Gluten free bread. And there is the crux of the matter. Yes it's a creation a largely beautiful one at that. But it's also a product that I purchased based in part on promises. Promises that weren't delivered.

I'm not asking for anything I wasn't promised.
As for demanding change. Would bioware/ea Really prefer that I accept this hipster elitist 'auteur' theory that says the customer cannot complain about a product. Really? Because that leaves us with is the 'Don't like it don't buy it" argument.

Which fails because I bought this game (and arguably the games preceding it ) months in advance or trust, and promises. Faith if you will. I already bought it. and I don't like it.


The only option left if I can't get redress is to stop giving EA/Bioware my business.  I don't think Bioware really wants us to 'shut up and go away' (well maybe the do, as long as we keep purchasing like indoctrinated little sheep but that isn't going to happen)

Noone said you had no right to complain about it; noone said you didn't have the right to ask for change. To simpy demand it, however, is not constructive at all; the most it will do is put Bioware on the defensive.

If anything I've stated numerous times that everyones opinions are valid; i jut don't like when someone says I'm not allowed to provide a counter-argument simply because it doesn't 'fall in line' with what people percieve as the vocal majority.

[GnusmasTHX]

saracen16 wrote...

GnusmasTHX wrote...

saracen16 wrote...

jreezy wrote...

Genera1Nemesis wrote...

Exactly my point; what if Mass Effect 4 answers the relay question or provides an alternative. Best I can tell is the survivors still know how to build stuff; they just now need to think 'outside' the box that was provided to them by the 'villians' of the game...

Antagonists would be a more appropriate term to use instead of "villians" which would imply that the Reapers actions have "evil" motivations when they do not.

Indeed, jreezy, and that's what scared me. We all thought they were this absolute evil and in the end we find out that their intentions are actually... somewhat... right.

Guy spends an entire game trying to hurt us and he's not evil?

Did you pay attention to what the Catalyst was saying? He felt he was preserving organic life by preserving it in Reaper form, leaving less advanced civilizations to develop. It had its own intentions but it's logic was clearly flawed. That doesn't make it necessarily evil. Just... wrong.

Did you play ME2? The guy spent the entire game trying to hurt us. Deal with it.

[Ohpus]

Games are an interactive media and we are interacting. Simple.

[Genera1Nemesis]

iamthedave3 wrote...

Genera1Nemesis wrote...
Normandy is smaller than those larger ships, and a heck of a lot faster (fastest ship ever built as I understand it) and Joker is the best pilot ever. Now you guys are just purposely looking for the negative instead of trying to see any other outcome. In short, you have decided that you are right no matter what and there is no room for any other debate.

You win.

So you're saying that Joker chickened out of the greatest fight of his time and fled the battle unlike those heroic Alliance soldiers seen fighting against the reapers on foot during the final scene? moreover, Joker and the entire squad chickened out and fled?

The Crucible was tearing all the ships in it's vicinity apart. I'd say that at that point fight is over, run or die.

[BULLETWASTER]

Bioware LIED about the endings! They said our decisions would create unique endings and that there would be no A,B, or C ending. That's why the ending NEEDS to be changed. Not because we don't like it but because Bioware lied to their fans.

[GnusmasTHX]

iamthedave3 wrote...

Genera1Nemesis wrote...
Normandy is smaller than those larger ships, and a heck of a lot faster (fastest ship ever built as I understand it) and Joker is the best pilot ever. Now you guys are just purposely looking for the negative instead of trying to see any other outcome. In short, you have decided that you are right no matter what and there is no room for any other debate.

You win.

So you're saying that Joker chickened out of the greatest fight of his time and fled the battle unlike those heroic Alliance soldiers seen fighting against the reapers on foot during the final scene? moreover, Joker and the entire squad chickened out and fled?

Obviously Joker learned his lesson from his **** up in ME2.

Until he was hours away and then says to himself, "Wait, I forgot Shepard."

[GnusmasTHX]

Genera1Nemesis wrote...

iamthedave3 wrote...

Genera1Nemesis wrote...
Normandy is smaller than those larger ships, and a heck of a lot faster (fastest ship ever built as I understand it) and Joker is the best pilot ever. Now you guys are just purposely looking for the negative instead of trying to see any other outcome. In short, you have decided that you are right no matter what and there is no room for any other debate.

You win.

So you're saying that Joker chickened out of the greatest fight of his time and fled the battle unlike those heroic Alliance soldiers seen fighting against the reapers on foot during the final scene? moreover, Joker and the entire squad chickened out and fled?

The Crucible was tearing all the ships in it's vicinity apart. I'd say that at that point fight is over, run or die.

Yeah, except the giant ships it was meant to destroy.

[deathscythe517]

Oh hey you guys are finally taking the advice and grouping together. Also I'm going to state it one more time.

Art is viewed before purchase and is either created at the request of someone or for the artist to display, it is not about profit. Books are the same way, they are tailored to the audience or made to make art or a statement. Video games are for-profit purely and thus never can and never will be art and at best will contain artistic elements.

This idiocy that we're somehow ruining the game by petitioning for extra content that gives real choices and consequences in the final act or at the very least some kind of freaking epilogue is just rude. We're not taking content away from you, we're trying to add onto it after being disgruntled, we aren't fans, we're customers, and as customers we are suppose to voice our criticisms so a business can do better. There was a time that this train of thought was encouraged but instead we have that minority who are brand loyalists who act as deniable PR for the company as well as trying to suppress concerns.

It is our choice to fight for what we want and to do what we want so long as we remain civil there is no problem. Even if Bioware slaps our petition down most of us would've rather tried and failed than just accept what we're given. So I have to ask, what right do you have to tell us to shut up?

[Edje Edgar]

Why they should enhance the ending:

http://social.biowar...10052341-1.html

[Genera1Nemesis]

BULLETWASTER wrote...

Bioware LIED about the endings! They said our decisions would create unique endings and that there would be no A,B, or C ending. That's why the ending NEEDS to be changed. Not because we don't like it but because Bioware lied to their fans.

In a literal sense, sure they lied. But if you look at the entire game, you saw the resolution of every choice you ever made throughout. They just didn't force it all in the final moment; instead it's scattered across 30-40 hours of gameplay.

[Uezurii]

Genera1Nemesis wrote...

Uezurii wrote...

saracen16 wrote...

wikkedjester wrote...

You will be who you will be. We are our choices.
- Helios, Deus Ex

Yeah that’s nice and all, but what about Shepard’s (ours) choices? Everything we've done for 5 years 100's of hours. In the end all the choice was taken away from us for an ABC ending that Shepard would never just lay down and take. Shepard is our choices, good or bad, his ending should reflect that, not disregard that. 

Read the OP again. There is no singular ending. You will not get the graybox ending in the Reaper plot. There are many plots and subplots in the game, and to conjoin them in a convoluted mess goes against proper writing. Mass Effect is not a movie, but a serialized epic.

Yes there are many subplots in Mass Effect 3, but everyone that played this game, got 1 of  3 ending, which is still a slightly adjusted cutscene. No matter what you did before the last 15 minutes, it will always play out the same.

You are wounded after Harbinger hits you, struggle to get to the Conduit, have an all out epic battle with Marauder Shields. Enter the Conduit and land in a strange Hallway, all of a sudden anderson is there too, even though there was no one around you and the coms said that everyone was dead and no one made it, surely they could see Shepard stand up then too and right behind him Anderson trying to catch up. 

Anyway moving on, Anderson is always in front of you and get to the terminal first, Illusive man shows up, He dies and anderson dies, then a random and conviniently placed elevator starts up without making any sense. The Catalyst get's introduced, he gives you the 3 options, of which, and this is important, the destroy choice he says you will die, yet it's the only ending you live in. Already showing he is lying to you. But anyway, you pick one of these choices, and then the same FMV starts playing with slight alterations, soldiers die, soldiers live. But this isn't based on your choices, but EMS. The relays go poof, and Joker always Crash lands with the squadmates that also should have been hit by Harbinger, with the running right behind you and all.

No matter what you do, no matter what you choose, this is how the last few minutes go. Except for when you have enough EMS, pick destroy, and we see Shepard lying in stone rubble, something the Citadel isn't made out of, drawing breath again.

You can say your choices mattered, and I agree with you, troughout the game, you shaped your story, but in the last 15 minutes, you dont see anything back from that, no one does.

Ad what exactly were your choices at the end of Mass Effect and Mass Effect 2? What lead to this 'the final decision in the game has to reflect every choice I made in the games" argument? The main plot had to go down a set path, otherwise if they make Mass Effect 4 they wouldn't have any consistency at all.

It's not the choices that are wrong, it's the execution of the choices, the few minutes that lead up to it and that come after it. In Mass Effect 1 and 2 everything you do before it, decide what happens in the last minutes of both games.

Mass Effect 1 less than 2 though, but I'm assuming that's because it's the start of the trilogy, but saving the Council or not, does have an effect on the epilogue of Mass Effect 1, and the choices you made within the game do affect Mass Effect 2 and 3. It's a set up, while still giving closure.

Mass Effect 2 however, nearly every thing you do in the game, decides how the suicide mission will go. Who will be loyal, who will die, is the Normandy ready to go trough the relay, will your Normandy crew survive or be melted, will shepard live. And then you can keep the base or not, which set up ME3 even more nicely, then we get the epilogue to see the aftermath of our choice with a satisfied or extremely pissed TIM or just a lonely Joker, and ofcourse the fleet of Reapers. There is indeed a plot line Bioware will follow, but the different outcomes are what make it so personal.

Mass Effect 3 did this really well up to the point of Harbinger hitting you. You decide the fate of many Races and their conflict's troughout the main game, and can even whipe some of the out. But no matter if you do that or not, the ending of Mass Effect 3, always plays out the same, and based on your EMS, The cutscene will have ever so slight adjustments made.

See, you can play the game as different as you want, the ending always is the same, while ME2 actually gave us quite a few varried endings. Also, as someone that has read the leaked script, to see that they cut the stuff, which showed that all our choices mattered, is just a sad sight to see. Theree were atleast 4 different scenario's after Harbinger hit you, and even one of them was released with the final hours app, where your squadmates get killed by Harbinger.

[iamthedave3]

Genera1Nemesis wrote...

iamthedave3 wrote...

Genera1Nemesis wrote...
Normandy is smaller than those larger ships, and a heck of a lot faster (fastest ship ever built as I understand it) and Joker is the best pilot ever. Now you guys are just purposely looking for the negative instead of trying to see any other outcome. In short, you have decided that you are right no matter what and there is no room for any other debate.

You win.

So you're saying that Joker chickened out of the greatest fight of his time and fled the battle unlike those heroic Alliance soldiers seen fighting against the reapers on foot during the final scene? moreover, Joker and the entire squad chickened out and fled?

The Crucible was tearing all the ships in it's vicinity apart. I'd say that at that point fight is over, run or die.

So how did he get the squad from the ground to the Normandy and then flee with them in time? It's not like he had advance warning that the thing was going to fire. Or that it even could.

And why would the squad go?

And what's the point since unless you screw up, nobody on the ground was killed by the Catalyst anyway?

[LucidStrike]

Genera1Nemesis wrote...

iamthedave3 wrote...

Genera1Nemesis wrote...
Normandy is smaller than those larger ships, and a heck of a lot faster (fastest ship ever built as I understand it) and Joker is the best pilot ever. Now you guys are just purposely looking for the negative instead of trying to see any other outcome. In short, you have decided that you are right no matter what and there is no room for any other debate.

You win.

So you're saying that Joker chickened out of the greatest fight of his time and fled the battle unlike those heroic Alliance soldiers seen fighting against the reapers on foot during the final scene? moreover, Joker and the entire squad chickened out and fled?

The Crucible was tearing all the ships in it's vicinity apart. I'd say that at that point fight is over, run or die.

The Crucible's event horizon was relatively small, so I dunno why you two are debating
it so much. It sucked in very few ship PARTS from relatively close
by...and Joker's not a coward. I don't have any cowards in my crew.

Here's plothole to discuss: WTF are they so happy when the Normandy lands? O_o

Modifié par LucidStrike, 16 mars 2012 - 12:16 .

[Genera1Nemesis]

GnusmasTHX wrote...

Genera1Nemesis wrote...

iamthedave3 wrote...

Genera1Nemesis wrote...
Normandy is smaller than those larger ships, and a heck of a lot faster (fastest ship ever built as I understand it) and Joker is the best pilot ever. Now you guys are just purposely looking for the negative instead of trying to see any other outcome. In short, you have decided that you are right no matter what and there is no room for any other debate.

You win.

So you're saying that Joker chickened out of the greatest fight of his time and fled the battle unlike those heroic Alliance soldiers seen fighting against the reapers on foot during the final scene? moreover, Joker and the entire squad chickened out and fled?

The Crucible was tearing all the ships in it's vicinity apart. I'd say that at that point fight is over, run or die.

Yeah, except the giant ships it was meant to destroy.

You mean the giant ships that characters ASSUMED it was meant to destroy? What if all the Crucible ended up being nothing more than a really big coffee machine?

Modifié par Genera1Nemesis, 16 mars 2012 - 12:16 .