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[MadMatt910]

Thought id make a list of plot holes and inconsistencies for those questioning whether they exist. If you can answer all these with solid evidence from the games/wiki or novels then we will accept the current endings are fitting

EDIT: Thanks to bucyrus5000 for help consolidating this thread
This thread is intended to show the scale of errors in the current ending, showing just how it does not function as an ending.

[quote]bucyrus5000 wrote...

I did some cleaning up of the topic, I hope it helps.
[quote]Ending Critizisims, Complaints, Plotholes, & Inconsistencies...

• ME1
  - Why didn't Starchild undo the Prothean's sabotage or help Saren &
  Sovereign given his total ability to control the Citadel?
• ME1 - Why does sovereign tell us we can't comprehend his motivations, then they are explained simply in ME3?
• ME1
  - Vigil says the reapers control the mass relays when they control the
  citadel and could turn them off, why didn't they do so when they brought
  the Citadel to Earth to prevent the allies from attacking?
• ME1 -
  Saren and Sovereign lead some of the geth out of the veil to go to war
  with the rest of the galaxy, if not then there wouldn't have been a war
  between the geth and Quarians, so reapers woudln't need to harvest
  advanced civilisations?
• ME2 - What was the point of the human
  reaper or the collectors? Them ME3 development team pasted up a great
  opportunity to add some action at TIM's base; we could have had a
  Cerberus built Reaper to fight or use in the coming battle. They could
  have explained the whole point of ME2 in a short dialog or cutscene.
• ME2 - Why did the relay exploding destory the system in arrival, but didn't in ME3?
• ME2
  - What happened to the dark energy idea that has been shadowed through 3
  games? If dark energy isnt resolved then wont it destory every sun (2
  already in me2 ageing prematurely), and so wont saving the universe be
  irrelevant?
• ME3 - Why is Conrad Verners dark energy dissertation considered a war asset if dark energy is irrelavnt?
• ME3 - Why does James complain about hearing a humming noise aboard the normandy? (a la indoctrination?)
• ME3 - How is reapers killing organics any better than synthetics built by organics killing the organics?
• ME3
  - Why didn't the reapers guide organics not to build synthetics, or
  build into themselves cybernetics to keep up with synthetic's
  advancement, rather than coming back every 50K years to kill advanced
  civilisations?
• ME3 - Why does shepard accept that Starchild, the boss of his enemy, tells him?
• ME3 - Why doesn't shepard question Starchild or mention peace with Geth or EDI?
• ME3 - How does the DNA of shepard allow for synthesis of synthetic and organic DNA?
• ME3
  - Why would synthetics possibly have DNA, given its a very poor method
  to store information that is corrupted on every replication?
• ME3
  - What would prevent the people from making new synthetics, under the
  synthesis ending? If they make a robot, does it magically turn into a
  dog?
• ME3 - Why does sheapard seem to wake up on earth; di he hallucinate/dream the ending, or did he fall from the blown up Citadel?
• ME3 - Why is the citadel made of concrete?
• ME3 - Why does the catalyst look like the child?
• ME3 - Where was the normandy going?
• ME3 - How come the normandy dropping out of FTL travel doesnt kill the crew, despite ME1 saying it would?
• ME3 - How does the crew survive the crash?
• ME3 - Why are my squadmates from earth on the Normandy?
• ME3 - Where is the planet they crash landed on?
• ME3 - How can shepard breath in space when talking to the catalyst?
• ME3 - How can shepard run to the destroy or synthesis ending, given his previous physical state?
• ME3 - Does the destroy ending wipe out all the ships in sol (all advanced technology destroyed)?

Modifié par MadMatt910, 16 mars 2012 - 09:16 .

[MadMatt910]

bump

[LolaLei]

Also, the god child tells you that if you choose the destroy option then all synthetic life will die. Now, baring in mind Shepard is part synthetic and he survives the blast is a bit suspect. Even stranger is that Joker is able to land/crash the Normandy on a planet when he shouldn't have been able to since the Normandy is EDI and EDI is synthetic, there's no way he would have survived that crash without EDI helping him... baring in mind what happened when Joker tried to pull that stunt in ME2.

So the game is either fatally flawed or it's the indoctrination/hallucination theory.

Modifié par LolaLei, 16 mars 2012 - 01:28 .

[MadMatt910]

LolaLei wrote...

Also, the god child tells you that if you choose the destroy option then all synthetic life will die. Now, baring in mind Shepard is part synthetic and he survives the blast if a bit suspect. Even stranger is that Joker is able to land/crash the Normandy on a planet when he shouldn't have been able to baring in mind the Normandy is EDI and EDI is synthetic, there's no way he would have survived that crash without EDI helping him... baring in mind what happened when Joker tried to pull that stunt in ME2.

So the game is either fatally flawed or it's the indoctrination/hallucination theory.

Pretty much my point.
Even if bioware dropped the ball, this ending is something someone with no experience woudl write.

[Zing Freelancer]

To add to your list: Why does TIM look so mutilated when all he did is perform surgery without anaesthetics?

[Alizonius]

One thing that explains all the plotholes. 

Spees Magickz! 

[LolaLei]

Zing Freelancer wrote...

To add to your list: Why does TIM look so mutilated when all he did is perform surgery without anaesthetics?

That ones explained in the game, he had Reaper tec installed into his body and ended up indoctrinated... though I'm unsure when he became indoctrinated, it could have been during ME2 if his eyes are anything to go by.

[MadMatt910]

Question in comments are being added to the list

[SKiLLYWiLLY2]

TIM has had the blue eyes ever since he touched the reaper object in the comin Mass Effect: Evolution, I believe. Pretty sure that took place during the first contact war (2157). Very well could have been indoctrinated ever since then but then ME2 hardly makes any sense...

Either way, TIM is basically half husk.

Modifié par SKiLLYWiLLY2, 16 mars 2012 - 01:37 .

[MadMatt910]

Lol, there even more inconsistencies than I had realised...

[Kanub]

MadMatt910 wrote...

1) In ME2, what was the point of the human reaper or the collectors?

2) How is reapers killing organics any better than synthetics built by organics killing the organics?

Right, I don't like the ending, but those two are explained.

1) Ghost Boy tells you that the Reapers 'record' each species they wipe out as a means of honouring them (in a sick kinda way.) The human reaper wasn't for any particular war reason, it was just a record of humanity for their scary archives.

2) Because the reapers don't wipe out all organice life, just the advanced stuff. Their argument is that eventually these advanced species would make synthetics that WOULD wipe out all organic life, completely. The reapers allow unevolved and primitve life to continue, untill such a point where it has the technology to be a threat to itself. 

Thus the claim that they are in fact preserving life in the galaxy.

[MadMatt910]

Kanub wrote...

MadMatt910 wrote...

1) In ME2, what was the point of the human reaper or the collectors?

2) How is reapers killing organics any better than synthetics built by organics killing the organics?

Right, I don't like the ending, but those two are explained.

1) Ghost Boy tells you that the Reapers 'record' each species they wipe out as a means of honouring them (in a sick kinda way.) The human reaper wasn't for any particular war reason, it was just a record of humanity for their scary archives.

2) Because the reapers don't wipe out all organice life, just the advanced stuff. Their argument is that eventually these advanced species would make synthetics that WOULD wipe out all organic life, completely. The reapers allow unevolved and primitve life to continue, untill such a point where it has the technology to be a threat to itself. 

Thus the claim that they are in fact preserving life in the galaxy.

1) ok fair enough, i missed that.
2) This still begs the question why didnt the reapers just tell the advanced civilisations not to do it?

[Elios]

bump
How can shepard breath in space when talking to the catalyst? <-- i can solve that one
force fields just like the omitools and personal shields just MUCH stronger
so id throw Bioware a bone on that one and take it off the list

Modifié par Elios, 16 mars 2012 - 01:52 .

[Catroi]

why joker didn't die from the crash considering he is suffering from the "bones of glass" syndrome?

[Kanub]

MadMatt910 wrote...

Kanub wrote...

MadMatt910 wrote...

1) In ME2, what was the point of the human reaper or the collectors?

2) How is reapers killing organics any better than synthetics built by organics killing the organics?

Right, I don't like the ending, but those two are explained.

1) Ghost Boy tells you that the Reapers 'record' each species they wipe out as a means of honouring them (in a sick kinda way.) The human reaper wasn't for any particular war reason, it was just a record of humanity for their scary archives.

2) Because the reapers don't wipe out all organice life, just the advanced stuff. Their argument is that eventually these advanced species would make synthetics that WOULD wipe out all organic life, completely. The reapers allow unevolved and primitve life to continue, untill such a point where it has the technology to be a threat to itself. 

Thus the claim that they are in fact preserving life in the galaxy.

1) ok fair enough, i missed that.
2) This still begs the question why didnt the reapers just tell the advanced civilisations not to do it?

Can't answer that. Or why don't the Reapers just come in and kill the synthetics when they get too rowdy? So yeah, it answers your first question, but it simply begs more answers with that question.

[Swisspease]

Why do all the bodies on the Citadel look like dolls?
How come when you first get to the Citadel a keeper looks at you when they'be never acknowledged anyone before?

[MadMatt910]

Just as an FYI, ill keep updatin ght eop but probably after we get a few answered/more questions rather than doing it after every post .

Would be great to keep it alive so we can find all the questions that we really cant answer satisfactorily.

[Abirn]

I don't think the novels should be valid sources for a lore in a video game. If its not in the game it's not cannon

[Elios]

Zing Freelandcer: Why does TIM look so mutilated when all he did is perform surgery without anaesthetics? <--- i can do this one too

Reaper tech
he implanted him self with it just like the troops on Mars
and JUST like in ME1 with Saren

[CavScout]

Alizonius wrote...

One thing that explains all the plotholes. 

Spees Magickz! 

People complaining about "space magic" after playing three games using the force biotics to thrash people is funny.

[Sinquanto1123]

also, if the catalyst is the citadel, why would he have allowed the Protheans to put a mini Mass Relay on the station? He had to know what it was. Why not just have the Keepers sabotage it? And even if he found it a bit cute that these primitives did so, why then when they came to change the "Keeper signal" would he have allowed that. He can still communicate to the Reapers, otherwise how could he allow Shepard to gain control of them? So, why would the Keepers even be needed to send the signal?

Also, if all advanced tech is gone, the Quarians are dead even if they can land safely as their suits no longer function to keep them safe from pathogens, and the Volus all just popped like balloons.

[zarnk567]

Alizonius wrote...

One thing that explains all the plotholes. 

Spees Magickz! 

^this^ BIOWARE ARE THE GODS OF WRITING

[Elios]

Abirn wrote...

I don't think the novels should be valid sources for a lore in a video game. If its not in the game it's not cannon

World of Warcraft, and Starcraft would like a word with you
also Warhammer 40k

[MadMatt910]

CavScout wrote...

Alizonius wrote...

One thing that explains all the plotholes. 

Spees Magickz! 

People complaining about "space magic" after playing three games using the force biotics to thrash people is funny.

Biotics are based on using dark energy, the same process used to generate the mass effect. So that is actually explained in the codex.

[zarnk567]

CavScout wrote...

Alizonius wrote...

One thing that explains all the plotholes. 

Spees Magickz! 

People complaining about "space magic" after playing three games using the force biotics to thrash people is funny.

..........READ YOUR CODEX

Modifié par zarnk567, 16 mars 2012 - 01:56 .