248 réponses à ce sujet

[MadMatt910]

jreezy wrote...

MadMatt910 wrote...

jreezy wrote...

I'm not seeing "lore inconsistencies" in most of that list, I'm seeing "I don't understand any of this".

Hence plot holes/lore inconsistencies

i.e. things that make little or no logical sense with the information avaliable to us

Seems like you're just asking questions for the sake of asking questions though, some of them having nothing to do with plot holes.

Such as?

[Diego Benitez]

Welsh Inferno wrote...

Dessalines wrote...
Why was IM trying to take over the Citadel prior to knowing that the Citadel was the catalys?

Yeah what the hell? Add that to the list.

Its the center of all advanced civilization TIM is power hungry

[BigBubbaBacon]

Welsh Inferno wrote...

Dessalines wrote...
Why was IM trying to take over the Citadel prior to knowing that the Citadel was the catalys?

Yeah what the hell? Add that to the list.

This isn't a plot hole. TIM could have been planning an attack on the Citadel for months or years. Taking the Citadel means taking the Embassies and partially cutting off communication between the different species. Even if the Catalyst wasn't the Citadel, the Citadel is a key point to have possession of in the war.

[Bedevil123]

nice list! but i might add:

-Citadel exploding in low orbit would reign massive debris hunks down on the earth, causing a global extinction event, like the one that killed the dinosaurs.

-If the citadel is left intact, the introduction of a planet sized satellite orbiting earth would have a massive environmental effect. tsunamis, earthquakes, that kind of thing. also the relay is still shut off so it can't exactly leave.

[AnthonyUK]

my main question when i faced the little star childs logic of Letting organics survive by ensuring that the synthetics they create don't wipe them out, thus "pruning" organics like has said in here, why wouldnt you just prune the synthetics since they're the minority and as stated they'll always be built by organics eventually whatever the cycle?

Also why go through the elaborate trap of leaving behind the citadel as bait so you can come in and destory the races in one swift stroke, thats not the work or tactics of some race doing the galaxy a favour of keeping the balance, its just evil.

How do they choose their races to prune? and why do they choose them? and why every 50,000 years? in this cycle
theres no chance of synthetics taking over any time soon, wh ythe cull?

why is it only shepard that can bring about the 3 end choices? in billions of years only shepard has done it??

why through analysis of the plans is it deemed the citadel is the catalyst to getting it to work? do we then find out the star kids the catalyst, wouldnt they have known it wouldnt work with the citadel?

When i start to think about it more questions are raised, especially when i go back an play 1 and 2 eventually.

Modifié par AnthonyUK, 16 mars 2012 - 03:37 .

[Grunkera]

Shallyah wrote...

*removed*


- Why didn't the reapers tell organics not to build synthetics rather than coming back every 50K years to kill advanced civilisations?

So evolution can follow its own pace. Reapers want organics to have free will, they just feel the need to keep them in check every 50,000 years. Besides, how would they enforce such demand?


*removed*

Just want to come to that particular point:

You say the reapers want evolution to follow its own pace and want organics to have free will.
But that´s exactly what the Reapers are denying!
If evolution follows it´s own way and organics end up being killed by their own made synthetics than that is pure darwinism. Also the organics choosed to create synthetics by their own free will.

[Sinquanto1123]

Grunkera wrote...

AurinShepard wrote...

MadMatt910 wrote...

AurinShepard wrote...

Sinquanto1123 wrote...
also, if the catalyst is the citadel, why would he have allowed the Protheans to put a mini Mass Relay on the station? He had to know what it was. Why not just have the Keepers sabotage it? And even if he found it a bit cute that these primitives did so, why then when they came to change the "Keeper signal" would he have allowed that. He can still communicate to the Reapers, otherwise how could he allow Shepard to gain control of them? So, why would the Keepers even be needed to send the signal?

Also, if all advanced tech is gone, the Quarians are dead even if they can land safely as their suits no longer function to keep them safe from pathogens, and the Volus all just popped like balloons.

Since this hasn't been answered yet... The Relay on the Citadel has always been there. The Protheans didn't put it there. The Protheans built the Conduit on Ilos as a one-way access to the Relay already existing on the Citadel.

Protheans somehow prevented Reapers from telling Keepers to open up the Citadel Relay in their cycle which is why Saren (and Sovereign) needed to get to the Conduit on Ilos to get to the Citadel instead of the way the Reapers normally begin their invasion.

As a massive BUT.

Since catalyst controls citadel, why did anyone have to go there. Saren and sovereign are rendered pointless by god child.

Does the Catalyst ever say he controls the Citadel? I cannot remember.

Nah he didnt say that, he just controlls the reapers but he don´t want to say them to get away.
Understandable Reapers played Cards for 50k years, so they would be really pissed if they had to go after such a short time of "having fun".
So catalys says no i dont want the anger of the reapers, you can deal with it by controlling them or destroying them or synthesize all live to reaperlike stuff what makes the Reapers really pissed they will say: Hey Child-Remote that´s it? We´re useless now?

Funny thing though with the synthese ending plants are also organic so apples become light bulbs now? And how if theres nowhere tech?

AHHHH i know space magic

FYI, the reapers have been around for at least 37 Million years (Derelict Reaper), thus a minimum of 740 extinction cycles...  Which brings up another question... you're telling me that in 740 cycles, not once did a civilization create synthetic life at, say, the 25,000 year mark that wiped out all of organic life well before the reapers could come back to wipe out the life that created the synthetics so that the synthetics wouldn't wipe them out?

[CraniumBeavers]

 

MadMatt910 wrote... 
In ME1, why does sovereign tell us we can't comprehend his motivations, then they are explained simply in ME3? 

  

Since you clearly can't. See below.

MadMatt910 wrote... 
In ME1, saren and sovereign lead some of the geth out of the veil to go to war with the rest of the galaxy, if not then there wouldn't have been a war, so reapers woudln't need to harvest advanced civilisations?

How is reapers killing organics any better than synthetics built by organics killing the organics?

Because Reapers do not kill all organics, whereas in a singularity synthetics will. When synthetics realize that organics should be killed, they will annihilate them all. 

To clarify what "all" means here: once the synthetics win their war against organis and advanced species are extinct, synthetics will systematically go from planet to planet, star system to star system and end even the most primitive organic life found in any enviroment. Even the simplest life forms (from cavemen to primates, fish, birds and insects all the way down to bacteria and protozoa) won't be safe from holocaust, since they all have a chance to develop into an advanced species over time. 

And destroying lifeforms won't be enough. The synthetics will make damn sure that no ecosystems capable of sustaining any kind of life ever is left to be. Wether by nuclear apocalypse, terraforming or Death Star, every life-sustaining world in the galaxy will be destroyed. And no life form, not even a cockroach, will ever crawl out of any kind of primordial muck on any planet. Not even in a billion or trillion or gazillion years. Not ever.

The extinction of organic life will be thorough and final.

That's what advanced synthetics will do to organic life. That's what the Reapers mean when they say it's a bad thing for synthetics to "kill" organics.

Although it still isn't "incomprehensibly" complicated like Sovereign said... And for the record, I too think the endings suck. 

[Avissel]

Diego Benitez wrote...
Why was IM trying to take over the Citadel prior to knowing that the Citadel was the catalys?

Are you talking about the Cerberus attack?

He was trying to help Udina take over the Council and then force the fleets to help earth.

The fleets weren't ready and would have been completely wiped out at that point, there by helping the Reapers. It would have also gotten the Alliance Navy off Cerberus' back.

[dreman9999]

Avissel wrote...

Deventh wrote...

I think you forgot some:
-How does Anderson gets to the control panel first when he said he was following you?
-Why do you have unlimited bullets in the citadel?
-Where did Illusive man came from? He wasn't anywhere in the room.
-Why does some of the bodies look like Ashley and Kaidan?
-How does the illusive man survives the control of the reapers, but Shepard doesn't?
-How does Anderson dies if he didn't get shot? He didn't even have a wound on him.
-How does Shepard suddenly starts running when you pick one of the very few choices?
And these are questions that i got just in my head right now. There is many more.

1. Covered this. He went into the beam after you, but came out of it further ahead of you.
2. To ensure you don't run out of ammo and die to the three husk and Glorious Soviet Hero Marauder Shields.
3. He appears behind you, so thats where he came from. Anderosn says the area he is in is changeing shape, so it's not a stretch to imagine a passage opened up.
4. I didn't notice this, probably using stock body armor.
5. TIM is being controlled by them, Shepard's body is broken down buy..doing....yeah I have no idea how the control thing works, but it's difference of being the controller vs the controllie
6. He does get shot. Ethier you or TIM shoot him based on the dialouge.
7. Drama.

 

[Aurvant]

jreezy wrote...

MadMatt910 wrote...

jreezy wrote...

I'm not seeing "lore inconsistencies" in most of that list, I'm seeing "I don't understand any of this".

Hence plot holes/lore inconsistencies

i.e. things that make little or no logical sense with the information avaliable to us

Seems like you're just asking questions for the sake of asking questions though, some of them having nothing to do with plot holes.

A plot hole happens when the story forces the reader/viewer/whatever to make an illogical jump from one juncture to another. Mass Effect 3's endings create numerous points where it forces the reader to question its narrative, thus, a plot hole is formed.

[Deventh]

nvm edited

Modifié par Deventh, 16 mars 2012 - 05:08 .

[Blarghonk]

Dunno if this was mentioned, but me and a friend were discussing the human reaper. We thought about how they wanted to combine the oranics with tech and thought maybe they wanted a human reaper pilot for their reaper ships. Dunno about the specifics but was just an interesting conversations.

Modifié par Blarghonk, 16 mars 2012 - 03:52 .

[Sinquanto1123]

Grunkera wrote...

Shallyah wrote...

*removed*


- Why didn't the reapers tell organics not to build synthetics rather than coming back every 50K years to kill advanced civilisations?

So evolution can follow its own pace. Reapers want organics to have free will, they just feel the need to keep them in check every 50,000 years. Besides, how would they enforce such demand?


*removed*

Just want to come to that particular point:

You say the reapers want evolution to follow its own pace and want organics to have free will.
But that´s exactly what the Reapers are denying!
If evolution follows it´s own way and organics end up being killed by their own made synthetics than that is pure darwinism. Also the organics choosed to create synthetics by their own free will.

Not to mention, their whole reason for the relays and the citadel was to CONTROL the evolution of said species, thus they actually don't want the species to freely evolve, but to evolve in nearly the same way every time...

[Harorrd]

Protheans from ME1 do not look anything like the Protheans in ME3
never explained why the Quarian sun was expanding
Trafic was runing when the citadel was hijacked
Trafic was runing when the citadel exploded

[xtorma]

Bedevil123 wrote...

nice list! but i might add:

-Citadel exploding in low orbit would reign massive debris hunks down on the earth, causing a global extinction event, like the one that killed the dinosaurs.

-If the citadel is left intact, the introduction of a planet sized satellite orbiting earth would have a massive environmental effect. tsunamis, earthquakes, that kind of thing. also the relay is still shut off so it can't exactly leave.

The citidel could just adjust it's mass using mass effect fields couldnt it? no mass....no gravitational pull. no effect on earth. Still many holes , but that one , not so hard to explain.

my questions are. why are the reapers so stupid.

Why didn't soverign just contact the citadel from the beginning , and say he was a benevolent being from some system we had not discovered yet. He could have said he had advanced tech , and offered some as proof. he could have played nice and eventually garnered enough trust to hook into the citadel. Once everyone on the citidel were mildly indoctronated he could have called all the other reapers and they could have blanketed all the known planets using the "we are friends" doctrine and just slowly indoctrinated the entire galaxy.

Why didn't vigil mention the crucible and steer shepard to mars to find it.

Why didn't joker get  heavy bone weave installed. it wasn't that hard to do , all shepard did was hit a button.

Why are there medi gel containers on a geth ship.

[UrdnotGrunty2]

 Spppaaaaaacccceeee Maaaaggggeeeeeeccckkkzzzzz:wizard:

[AnthonyUK]

Why did the catalyst take the form of the kid from shepards dreams? how would the catalyst know the kid? why would he choose something from shepards dreams? is it some sort of mind reader? dream watcher?

[Bedevil123]

xtorma wrote...

Bedevil123 wrote...

nice list! but i might add:

-Citadel exploding in low orbit would reign massive debris hunks down on the earth, causing a global extinction event, like the one that killed the dinosaurs.

-If the citadel is left intact, the introduction of a planet sized satellite orbiting earth would have a massive environmental effect. tsunamis, earthquakes, that kind of thing. also the relay is still shut off so it can't exactly leave.

The citidel could just adjust it's mass using mass effect fields couldnt it? no mass....no gravitational pull. no effect on earth. Still many holes , but that one , not so hard to explain.

doesnt the crucible wipe out mass effect tech? or just the relays?

[Avissel]

Deventh wrote...
I won't comment on everything, but i will comment on number 6.
There is an option where TIM is going to shoot Anderson, but renegade option for Shepard comes in and you can shoot him before he does that.
 Watch until 10:00

Yeah, scroll back the video a bit.
TIM forces Shepard to shoot Anderson in the gut.

So, he gets shoot no matter what.

[NightWeaselX]

So going with the ending, why do the reapers even leave the mass relays and citadel for other races to find and advance off of? Take humans for instance, we weren't that advanced until we found the Prothean ruins on Mars and the Mass Relay. Then we had the First Contact War and then started working with the other races to further advance. Take out the Relays where an advanced race can't travel very far to influence other races, and then the reapers just have to come in, say, every 100,000 years and wipe out one civilization. And, it seems with what was revealed on Thessia, most technology stems from what other races learn from these relays and citadel to advance. Take them away, no advancement, no pollution of the galaxy, no advanced technology to create advanced synthetics that would then wipe out the galaxy which means no need to come in and harvest. So the destroy life so synthetics don't destroy life makes no sense as they could prevent the whole damn thing by just removing their own technology.

As for why TIM was trying to go after the Citadel earlier, I think it was more to take out the council. Take control not of the Citadel, but of the council. This way he could use them to prevent or hinder their efforts to destroy the reapers while he figured out a way to control them.

As another point to the "we must kill you so synthetics don't" mantra, in the same game, with Javik, why does he not mention any sort of problems or anything at all with their own synthetics. Seems like the Protheans dominated the galaxy and had no problems. If it was time to harvest them to save them, shouldn't they have at least had something like the geth in their time period? And if there are no synthetics at all in 50,000 years when the reapers show up, and they start harvesting and realize "Oh crap! These guys weren't really that advanced after all! Can we call a mulligan? Do over! We'll see you guys again in 50,000 years. Advance some so we don't feel like we're picking on handicap people, okay? Thanks! Peace for now!" Seems to me a better reason would have been to eliminate the dominating species to prevent them from controlling/hindering evolution of other species. This would have made sense with what was said by Javik. Apparently this cycle was the first cycle where there wasn't one huge power, but several who all shared power.

[Dimensio]

xtorma wrote...

Why didn't joker get  heavy bone weave installed. it wasn't that hard to do , all shepard did was hit a button.

Insufficient palladium.

[Dimensio]

NightWeaselX wrote...

As another point to the "we must kill you so synthetics don't" mantra, in the same game, with Javik, why does he not mention any sort of problems or anything at all with their own synthetics.  

You evidently did not experience all possible conversations with Javik.

[Sinquanto1123]

NightWeaselX wrote...

So going with the ending, why do the reapers even leave the mass relays and citadel for other races to find and advance off of? Take humans for instance, we weren't that advanced until we found the Prothean ruins on Mars and the Mass Relay. Then we had the First Contact War and then started working with the other races to further advance. Take out the Relays where an advanced race can't travel very far to influence other races, and then the reapers just have to come in, say, every 100,000 years and wipe out one civilization. And, it seems with what was revealed on Thessia, most technology stems from what other races learn from these relays and citadel to advance. Take them away, no advancement, no pollution of the galaxy, no advanced technology to create advanced synthetics that would then wipe out the galaxy which means no need to come in and harvest. So the destroy life so synthetics don't destroy life makes no sense as they could prevent the whole damn thing by just removing their own technology.

As for why TIM was trying to go after the Citadel earlier, I think it was more to take out the council. Take control not of the Citadel, but of the council. This way he could use them to prevent or hinder their efforts to destroy the reapers while he figured out a way to control them.

As another point to the "we must kill you so synthetics don't" mantra, in the same game, with Javik, why does he not mention any sort of problems or anything at all with their own synthetics. Seems like the Protheans dominated the galaxy and had no problems. If it was time to harvest them to save them, shouldn't they have at least had something like the geth in their time period? And if there are no synthetics at all in 50,000 years when the reapers show up, and they start harvesting and realize "Oh crap! These guys weren't really that advanced after all! Can we call a mulligan? Do over! We'll see you guys again in 50,000 years. Advance some so we don't feel like we're picking on handicap people, okay? Thanks! Peace for now!" Seems to me a better reason would have been to eliminate the dominating species to prevent them from controlling/hindering evolution of other species. This would have made sense with what was said by Javik. Apparently this cycle was the first cycle where there wasn't one huge power, but several who all shared power.

To answer the first one, they say in ME1 that they have those there so that they know how the species will advance and can easily shut them down.

[NightWeaselX]

Must not have.