157 réponses à ce sujet

[SecElit3]

Integrity? You mean like Bioware providing the things that they said they would provide in the first place? Sounds like someone should find a dictionary.

[Vergil_dgk]

pkmn wrote...

When Dickens gave into readers and changed the ending to Great Expectations, it was one of the great failings in the art of literature. That the masses, rather than the artist, would dictate  the conclusion of a brilliant work of literature was about as anti-art as you can get.

Bioware is faced with a similar dilemma now. Some very vocal fans are demanding a DLC that adds another alternative happy ending.

Bioware, please realize that this is a crossroads for video games as an art form. If you give into fans, you will be showing that the ending of videogames is decided by the masses rather than by the artist - you will be tarnishing a great work of art; you'll be forever disgracing the idea that video games can be seen as an art form.

While I was not entirely pleased with the 10 second cutscene at the end of the game, I correctly realize that the entirety of Mass Effect 3 is the "ending". The ending starts as soon as you start a new game. The previous two acts were seen in Mass Effect and Mass Effect 2. People are putting too much stock in a 10 second cutscene and ignoring the rest of the ending. I also realize that it is Bioware's story to end - not mine, and that of not the very vocal trolls and haters on this forum.

1) Mass effect is not comparable to Great Expectations: the happy end in Great expactations made no sense in relation to what happened during the story. The unhappy ending in Mass Effect makes no sense as it is.

2) As many people have stated, this is not about a happy ending; it's about an ending that is worthy of this outstanding trilogy of games. One of the great strengths of Mass Effect have been the ability of the player to make choices that truly felt like they mattered. It makes no sense for this crucial aspect of the game to be discarded at the very end.

3) most editions of Great Expectations are now printed with both endings. This adds a really interesting layer to the story and the effect was copied by John Fowles in his great novel "the French Lieutenant's woman". I venture that Mass Effect (while not a work of art comparable to either book), could and should benefit from a similar ambiguity.

Modifié par Vergil_dgk, 16 mars 2012 - 01:42 .

[MB957]

I am an artist. I can make "artistic" stuff that no one wants all day long, and hang it in my own house.

but if I want to eat, and pay my bills, and make a living, then I have to meet my audience in the middle. It drives me bananas when someone likes one of my pieces, but doesn't buy it because" it doesnt match their curtains!"

so I take notes, and make a "special" piece just for them. and lo and behold! its similar to the piece they like...and it matches their curtains!!

they are happy! and buy it! I am happy and sell it!!

now the lights stay on one more day, and I genuinely feel good, cuz I made a place to put forth my creativity, I made someone happy, and I got paid to do it!!

Modifié par MB957, 16 mars 2012 - 01:43 .

[sgreco1970]

Jaysh wrote...

Change the endings Bioware, or you will loose more customers than what you already have.

I can't agree.

The ending was just fine. What did you expect, a last second desperate dash to the button and BLAMMO no more reapers and everyone throws a great big party with ewoks dancing? Come on, that's so predictable the game would've felt hollow.

I chose, to coin a phrase, the "middle path." Shepard's final task, his final sacrifice, to toss himself into the fire and remold reality. Mankind, reborn anew, the final evolution and they emerge from the normandy in a garden of eden.

Frankly, that's better than dancing ewoks.

If I could've changed it at all, I'd a) have made the boy have stronger relevance than he was always the catalyst. I think he should've been shepard as a child. "You can't save me." The final prophecy of his life. and EVERYONE, even our dead friends, AND shepard, would've emerged onto that Edden, as though it was a sort of heaven too. Oh, and maybe some slightly more uplifting music. In a way, the crafting of the scene (music, pacing the lack of the entire cast) did feel a bit gloomy. Always a play an upbeat song as your audience leaves the theater

But otherwise, I liked it just fine. Im not sure why everyone freaked out and I'd hate to see the ending changed. If you MUST do something in a  DLC then allow Shepard to return, somehow, and join his friends on that garden world for one last adventure and show us they're rewarded for all their sacrifice. But to outright change the ending, make it all have been a dream, or indoctrination or some such would be cheap, unfulfilling and downright blasphemy.

Just tell us one more story... of the Shepard.

Modifié par sgreco1970, 16 mars 2012 - 01:43 .

[Swisspease]

Change can work also. Like when Sir Arthur Conan Doyle brought Sherlock Holmes back to life due to reader demand.

[Filby08]

No, do not change the ending.

Add to the ending. Give us different endings. Feel free to keep the endings that already exist, but give us choice. You know, the choice that was the main attraction to the game in the first pace.

[_NF_Von_Lipwig]

pkmn wrote...

When Dickens gave into readers and changed the ending to Great Expectations, it was one of the great failings in the art of literature. That the masses, rather than the artist, would dictate  the conclusion of a brilliant work of literature was about as anti-art as you can get.

Bioware is faced with a similar dilemma now. Some very vocal fans are demanding a DLC that adds another alternative happy ending.

Bioware, please realize that this is a crossroads for video games as an art form. If you give into fans, you will be showing that the ending of videogames is decided by the masses rather than by the artist - you will be tarnishing a great work of art; you'll be forever disgracing the idea that video games can be seen as an art form.

While I was not entirely pleased with the 10 second cutscene at the end of the game, I correctly realize that the entirety of Mass Effect 3 is the "ending". The ending starts as soon as you start a new game. The previous two acts were seen in Mass Effect and Mass Effect 2. People are putting too much stock in a 10 second cutscene and ignoring the rest of the ending. I also realize that it is Bioware's story to end - not mine, and that of not the very vocal trolls and haters on this forum.

You are working with the idea that a video game can only be considered art if ALL video games are considered art. This is simply not the case. Games like Dear Esther and The Path are art, but games like Call of Duty or Battlefield... and Mass Effect, are more entertainment than art. (just like movies; there are arthouse films and blockbuster movies. There's a difference)

Also, I do agree that the entirety of ME3 is the ending tot he trilogy. However, while you've been getting closure throughout the entire game of ME3, the ending rips that all apart again: the Quarians found their homeworld... but are torn away from it again. The Krogan are finally saved from the Genophage, but now they can't get any supplies to help them rebuild their nuclear rubble heap of a planet. All the people you saved and helped will perish anyway, invalidating most of the previous game(s).


Also, it's just not what was promised to us. It was explicitly stated that there would be 16 distinctly different endings. What we got was 1 ending with some minor variations. 3 endings if you're feeling generous.

[Doctoglethorpe]

count_4 wrote...

pkmn wrote...
Some very vocal fans are demanding a DLC that adds another alternative happy ending.

You didn't even understand the problems with the ending, did you?

[_NF_Von_Lipwig]

Filby08 wrote...

No, do not change the ending.

Add to the ending. Give us different endings. Feel free to keep the endings that already exist, but give us choice. You know, the choice that was the main attraction to the game in the first pace.

And this.

[GorrilaKing]

We do not even ask for a happy ending. It's an epic and an epic can certainly end in tragedy. We just ask for an ending that makes sense.
Do not compare this to wanting to change great works of literature, please. These works are great works because everything, including the ending, works and is not just cobbled together without rhyme or reason.

[dyeowart]

There's two separate complaints that pop up. The first one is the ending is pretty apocalyptic (ie letting the reapers do their thing would have probably done less damage) - ok, that's really bioware's story. I didn't like it, but whatever - it is their story.

The second is that the ending as shown is very confused and inconsistent and just doesn't fit with previous scenes (as in "hey didn't you just die to a reaper laser on earth? why are you on the normandy running somewhere?"). That's a much bigger issue IMO.

[garf]

pkmn wrote...

When Dickens gave into readers and changed the ending to Great Expectations, it was one of the great failings in the art of literature. That the masses, rather than the artist, would dictate  the conclusion of a brilliant work of literature was about as anti-art as you can get.

Bioware is faced with a similar dilemma now. Some very vocal fans are demanding a DLC that adds another alternative happy ending.

Bioware, please realize that this is a crossroads for video games as an art form. If you give into fans, you will be showing that the ending of videogames is decided by the masses rather than by the artist - you will be tarnishing a great work of art; you'll be forever disgracing the idea that video games can be seen as an art form.

While I was not entirely pleased with the 10 second cutscene at the end of the game, I correctly realize that the entirety of Mass Effect 3 is the "ending". The ending starts as soon as you start a new game. The previous two acts were seen in Mass Effect and Mass Effect 2. People are putting too much stock in a 10 second cutscene and ignoring the rest of the ending. I also realize that it is Bioware's story to end - not mine, and that of not the very vocal trolls and haters on this forum.

This is not Dickens. There's not even a single author it's already a 'team'.
As 'art' it is mental chewing gum.  Sorry. I love ME  it but it's not anything some elitist hipster would deign to consider as 'Art'

Integrity also means keeping your word.

If it offends you that fans changed the ending. Just pretend it's  the 'Director's Cut' or something.

also we aren't asking for change so much as 'completion' and addition endings (plural)  rather than a single ending in three colours.  (as was promised. see integrity)

Nothing they do will diminish YOUR experience so why are you treating my greivance with contempt and trying to stop me from getting redress? you're not even trying to convince me I'm wrong. you're a third party telling the person I'm trying to negociate with or at least get to hear me. Not to listen to me.

... I'm sorry...

who do you think you are?

[elferin91]

CRISIS1717 wrote...

Videogames are unlike books and art in the sense that blockbuster titles are made to sell copies not to be art pieces.

It is like a sloppy hamburger  and it doesn't even taste good at all.

Also if you really want to compare it like that then think about this

The new/old Game of thrones series.... after the first season people started reading the books s it fairly popular

What if the last book in the series was not written by R. R. Martin

so stop comparing it to books mkaaaaay

also about not changin the endings in books or films, yea but isn't that what happened to I am Legend
Wasn't the original trilogy of Star Wars had a make-over a few times?

[zarnk567]

count_4 wrote...

pkmn wrote...
Some very vocal fans are demanding a DLC that adds another alternative happy ending.

You didn't even understand the problems with the ending, did you?

It's also apparent he did not even read any of the 50 other ending threads...... WE DON"T CARE IT"S NOT A HAPPY ENDING, WE WANT AN ENDING THAT MAKES SENSE

[Llames]

I hope they _DONT_ add a happy ending(UNLESS they planned so from the start). I just want the endings to have bigger repercussions from the actions than "blue vs red vs green explosion!", and fixing the plot holes.

[Everwarden]

pkmn wrote...
Bioware is faced with a similar dilemma now. Some very vocal fans are demanding a DLC that adds another alternative happy ending.

No. Wrong, sir. Wrong. 

Ever played Red Dead Redemption? That is a ****ing fantastic game, with an excellent ending that brings everything full circle for the protagonist and the player. It's also a huge downer. 

Mass Effect 3 doesn't have a depressing ending (at least not for the right reasons), it has a -bad- ending.  

[SilencedScream]

pkmn wrote...

Chaota Vos wrote...

pkmn wrote...

When Dickens gave into readers and changed the ending to Great Expectations, it was one of the great failings in the art of literature. That the masses, rather than the artist, would dictate  the conclusion of a brilliant work of literature was about as anti-art as you can get.

And yet it remains a great classic.

How very, very odd.

A classic forever tarnished by the author giving in to fans for adding a conventional happy ending. Bioware shouldn't tarnish their excellent game in the same fashion.

Stop being ignorant.
VERY few people are asking for a happy ending.
MOST people are just asking for an ending that actually makes sense and takes into account our actions for the series as opposed to throwing them all out the door for the same horribly constructed ending.

[revo76]

forget it, you're trying to explain our cause to some kid who insult more than 40 thousand people saying 'very vocal'

You can understand he has no idea what does that mean 'very vocal' or 40k (forty thousand people)

[Capeo]

pkmn wrote...

Chaota Vos wrote...

pkmn wrote...

When Dickens gave into readers and changed the ending to Great Expectations, it was one of the great failings in the art of literature. That the masses, rather than the artist, would dictate  the conclusion of a brilliant work of literature was about as anti-art as you can get.

And yet it remains a great classic.

How very, very odd.

A classic forever tarnished by the author giving in to fans for adding a conventional happy ending. Bioware shouldn't tarnish their excellent game in the same fashion.

Uh, you have no idea what people are asking for do you?  First off ME is not a work of art.  Not even close.  The comparison is ridiculous.  It's retconned itself.  Contradicted itself.  It's on par with sci-fi pulp magazines.  That aside, what makes it engaging is the characters and the choices you have.  Get that?  Choices.  All the choices we were promised repeatedly up until release.  What did we get?  A railroaded ending that gives us laughably limited choice and reuses the same assets but changes the color.  

[Chaota Vos]

pkmn wrote...

Chaota Vos wrote...

pkmn wrote...

When Dickens gave into readers and changed the ending to Great Expectations, it was one of the great failings in the art of literature. That the masses, rather than the artist, would dictate  the conclusion of a brilliant work of literature was about as anti-art as you can get.

And yet it remains a great classic.

How very, very odd.

A classic forever tarnished by the author giving in to fans for adding a conventional happy ending. Bioware shouldn't tarnish their excellent game in the same fashion.

I'd love a list of literary professionals and scholars who agree with that sentiment.

[Vaktathi]

pkmn wrote...

Chaota Vos wrote...

pkmn wrote...

When Dickens gave into readers and changed the ending to Great Expectations, it was one of the great failings in the art of literature. That the masses, rather than the artist, would dictate  the conclusion of a brilliant work of literature was about as anti-art as you can get.

And yet it remains a great classic.

How very, very odd.

A classic forever tarnished by the author giving in to fans for adding a conventional happy ending. Bioware shouldn't tarnish their excellent game in the same fashion.

Two things. First, most don't consider the changed GE to be all that "tarnished". Methinks you're the only one promoting that viewpoint, or at best, one of the few.

Second, people see the ending to ME3 as tarnishing the entire franchise, something that brings the entire series down. Changing that is probably a good thing. Again, given that the ending is pretty much a literal copy-paste of a 12 year old game's ending, it's not like we can really take a stand on being artistic here, and it certainly couldn't tarnish the game more than the current endings already are.

Modifié par Vaktathi, 16 mars 2012 - 01:50 .

[NICKjnp]

I'll add this. Change it or I won't buy anymore of your games. @ the OP...it would be dlc and you wouldn't have to down load it. Video games are a money making industry.

And Bioware says they listen to their fans...if this isn't an indicator of us being vocal about what we want then I don't know what is.

[VyseN1]

Not this again. Games are interactive. Books are not. We were told our decisions would shape the story, and the ending. That turned out to be false.

[Lucubration]

Nothing about the current ending conveys integrity. Fixing a mistake is not somehow 'corrupt'.

[Reiella]

Dimensio wrote...

I am curious: have you not actually read the specific complaints regarding the ending, or are you dishonestly ignoring the specific nature of those complaints and instead falsely asserting that the complaints are requesting a "happy ending" because you are incapable of rationally arguing against the actual stated positions?

Many of the arguments ultimately fall to wanting an ending where the galaxy still benefits from the fruits of Reaper-tech without having Reapers going 'KILL ALL ORGANICS'.  Perhaps not the 'happiest ending', but a happier ending.

Some are simply a desire for more exposition with regards to certain events.  Tthe 'plot holes' and 'I want to know what happened to my squad!', most of the later, again wanting to be a happier ending, not the 'Well Tali and Garus died because there's no food on Earth' supposition that's been going about.  
The line too much invested in the characters is such that folks want a happier ending for their crew.  Consider how often folks got No Man Left Behind clear in ME2 versus Shepard died.  The former, is simply wanting more of the franchise exposed and given a definite answer.  I do understand folks wanting the story written for them instead of having to write it themselves , I just prefer the open-to-interpretation aspect of ending given the varied character choices and motivations.