157 réponses à ce sujet

[Mad-Hamlet]

The lack of integrity got Bioware into this situation.

[fyresai]

Integrity would have been to deliver what they promised in multiple interviews leading up to the game, OP. You forget that this is also a product on the free market for mass sale, and if people are not satisfied with that product, then they can ask that it be made more to their liking.

[LittleDeadGirl]

It already tarnished the game when it made a lazy nonsensical ending. What about the ending screams high art to you? I don't actually advocate a change, or a DLC, I think that's cheap and pointless. What I want is for Bioware to admit they got lazy at the end and assumed I was stupid by giving me some vague ending and presenting it as "art". It wasn't art, I could see right through it, and it made no logical sense. I'm glad some people found enjoyment out of it, I wouldn't wish what I'm feeling on anyone else, but it doesn't change my feelings about it.

[ThePasserby]

Nugralsa1 wrote...

pkmn wrote...

While I was not entirely pleased with the 10 second cutscene at the end of the game, I correctly realize that the entirety of Mass Effect 3 is the "ending". The ending starts as soon as you start a new game.

One with brain...totally agree.
The ME3 give u the possibility to cure the genophage,free rannoch from geth fight the Reaper and destroy cerberus.All in one game and u are not satisfied?U played ME 3 for 30 hr in...3-4 days.If u don't like it..why u finished?
Seriously guys are u crying and moaning for a new ending?Are u 14 years old or what?Never played Metal gear solid?Never played an art opera of the videogame?From what i read it seems no.
U don't like ?Deal with it...and if u want don't buy BioWare product in the future.It's you'r choice and,again,choice is the center of ME and Life but you all must respect BioWare decisions.Mass Effect is thei'r game and they decide how it end.

P.S:Sorry for my english.

Bad English is not your only problem. Reported for harrassment, troling.

[mdolsen]

Another troll with no idea what the actual issues that people have with the ending are.

Personally it comes down to one thing for me: Having 3 arbitrary, virtually identical choices with no input outside of EMS affecting what happens invalidates the choices made for all 3 games. It means no matter what we did, paragon or renegade, or what sacrifices we made throughout the trilogy, are worth exactly nothing.

From a replay standpoint as well, this means I really have no inclination to play the games again, no matter how much I loved them.

Modifié par mdolsen, 16 mars 2012 - 02:28 .

[Dormin]

Most don't expect a happy ending just one without plot holes.

[Shock n Awe]

pkmn wrote...

When Dickens gave into readers and changed the ending to Great Expectations, it was one of the great failings in the art of literature. That the masses, rather than the artist, would dictate  the conclusion of a brilliant work of literature was about as anti-art as you can get.

Bioware is faced with a similar dilemma now. Some very vocal fans are demanding a DLC that adds another alternative happy ending.

Bioware, please realize that this is a crossroads for video games as an art form. If you give into fans, you will be showing that the ending of videogames is decided by the masses rather than by the artist - you will be tarnishing a great work of art; you'll be forever disgracing the idea that video games can be seen as an art form.

While I was not entirely pleased with the 10 second cutscene at the end of the game, I correctly realize that the entirety of Mass Effect 3 is the "ending". The ending starts as soon as you start a new game. The previous two acts were seen in Mass Effect and Mass Effect 2. People are putting too much stock in a 10 second cutscene and ignoring the rest of the ending. I also realize that it is Bioware's story to end - not mine, and that of not the very vocal trolls and haters on this forum.

We don't want a "happier" ending, we want an ending that makes sense, results in destroyed Reapers, and doesn't open up a whole bunch of plot holes/implies you killed off nearly everyone.  Shepard can die, but not because you get to the Citadel and some kid goes "Yeah, you can kill yourself 2 ways but "win", or you can somehow live this way and still "win".  How are you winning?  Who cares, all you do is touch these and you win."

[TehShizno]

I do not want a particulary happy ending, but I want:
- an ending that makes sense
- an ending where Harbinger plays greater role and with an epic conversation like the one at the end of me1 and not some annoying child
- an ending that is actually impacted by your choices. ME has been all about choices throughout the series, yet at the end it does not actually matter what you do. I could have as well randomly tap buttons at the decision making points and it would still turn out to be the same

[someguy1231]

Bioware lost all claims to integrity when they put together one of the most unsatisfying endings in history.

[Arthorius]

When my four years old nephew is drawing on some paper sheets, I can hardly undestand what he is doing. Was I wrong, all this time, when I asked him why the cat was flying with a dinosaur? Damn. He is an artist, and I never knew.

[avmf8]

For me I want an overall good ending but not for the actual characters. For example I don't care if Garrus dies I only care about the turians surviving. I don't care about Tali I just care about her race surviving (especially since I took so much effort to get the qaurrians and geth to make peace)

I just care if all the races make it and if the relays blow up they won't make it. It was pointless to cure the genophage since the krogan went extinct anyway. Every race pretty much goes extinct besides the human race. What kind of crap ending is that?

No wonder all the species in the Galaxy were not fond of humans they must have known we were going to kill them all in the end.

[mupp3tz]

I'm guessing you have no idea that it has nothing to do with a happier ending. Obviously, there are some people who want to end up with the LI, safe and sound, but the greatest part of the outcry is that the ending doesn't make sense on a variety of levels.

You also completely overlook the difference that Great Expectations is NOT AN INTERACTIVE MEDIUM, whereas ME3 is.  Integrity would be not making false claims and having the courage to admit you messed up.

Modifié par M U P P 3 T Z, 16 mars 2012 - 02:37 .

[Adamantium93]

That word, "integrity"...i dont think it means what you think it means.

[Mystical_Gaming]

Changing the endings means even MORE options. Why anyone wouldn't want more endings choices is beyond me. If you don't want the new endings you don't get the dlc plain and simple. For all of us who want a better ending it's the best thing to do to make Mass Effect 3 and the trilogy as a whole feel right again.

[Jjynn]

pkmn wrote...

When Dickens gave into readers and changed the ending to Great Expectations, it was one of the great failings in the art of literature. That the masses, rather than the artist, would dictate  the conclusion of a brilliant work of literature was about as anti-art as you can get.

Bioware is faced with a similar dilemma now. Some very vocal fans are demanding a DLC that adds another alternative happy ending.

Bioware, please realize that this is a crossroads for video games as an art form. If you give into fans, you will be showing that the ending of videogames is decided by the masses rather than by the artist - you will be tarnishing a great work of art; you'll be forever disgracing the idea that video games can be seen as an art form.

This point keeps coming up, and it I have to ask, why do you think providing a new ending DLC would remove the existing ending?  We're not asking for BioWare to remove the existing ending, only to add more endings that we feel would better reflect the character of Shepard as we've come to know him/her.  I don't believe that any ending DLC that is provided would erase the ending that's already in the game.

Your (rather poorly crafted) ending will still be there for you to enjoy (though I can't see how anyone can).  The dissatisfied numbers of us that are speaking out are merely asking that more options be provided as to the outcomes.

[Fame-KIllz]

silly bio-drones actually believe this

Modifié par Fame-KIllz, 16 mars 2012 - 02:42 .

[Balmung31]

blacqout wrote...

What BioWare should do is wait until those in Asia have had a chance to play it, then come in and explain it so the simpletons that don't get it can understand.

What they shouldn't do is lower their art to the level of those that need sunshine and happiness.

Hey, aren't you that person who was making such a big fuss over the blonde FemShep not getting chosen during the voting process?  And tried to prove your case by pointing out how the polls were ultimately wrong when the redhead was chosen? 

You seem to have big problems when people don't vote your way. 

[Dimensio]

[quote]Reiella wrote...

[quote]Dimensio wrote...

I am curious: have you not actually read the specific complaints regarding the ending, or are you dishonestly ignoring the specific nature of those complaints and instead falsely asserting that the complaints are requesting a "happy ending" because you are incapable of rationally arguing against the actual stated positions?
[/quote]

Many of the arguments ultimately fall to wanting an ending where the galaxy still benefits from the fruits of Reaper-tech without having Reapers going 'KILL ALL ORGANICS'.  Perhaps not the 'happiest ending', but a happier ending.

My objection is not to the events of the ending itself, but to the lack of justification for them.

[flaming arrows]

pkmn wrote...

When Dickens gave into readers and changed the ending to Great Expectations, it was one of the great failings in the art of literature. That the masses, rather than the artist, would dictate  the conclusion of a brilliant work of literature was about as anti-art as you can get.

Dickens did the right thing. He pleased his readers and friends despite not owing them anything. What could be more selfless? It's not the same thing anyway. Dickens didn't promise his readers that their choices would make for many very different endings ahead of time. Bioware did. 

Point is, fans were not given what they were promised. We got essentially ONE ending when we could have had a bunch and it was supposed to be our CHOICE how this story ended, not some stupid little gost kid's. 

[leianajade]

Going to be honest. I want a happier ending, krogan birthday cake and all. I mean, Shepard has continually done the impossible, so why not give her the impossible one more time?

But I'm also fine with a grim, bleak ending, as this would fit another one of my Sheps. I just want that option, and for these options to make sense.

Art for art's sake argument fails. This form of 'art', the RPG, is meant to be player based. Imagine a game of D&D where the DM pulled an ending like this. They'd be lynched on the spot. This form is supposed to be art like sand - able to be changed, fluid based on the player's choices.

[ericjdev]

Bioware showed an utter lack of intergrity when they released that stale, tone deaf, derivative piece of garbage. Admitting they wrong and fixing their error would show character and integrity.

[Therefore_I_Am]

pkmn wrote...

When Dickens gave into readers and changed the ending to Great Expectations, it was one of the great failings in the art of literature. That the masses, rather than the artist, would dictate  the conclusion of a brilliant work of literature was about as anti-art as you can get.

Bioware is faced with a similar dilemma now. Some very vocal fans are demanding a DLC that adds another alternative happy ending.

Bioware, please realize that this is a crossroads for video games as an art form. If you give into fans, you will be showing that the ending of videogames is decided by the masses rather than by the artist - you will be tarnishing a great work of art; you'll be forever disgracing the idea that video games can be seen as an art form.

While I was not entirely pleased with the 10 second cutscene at the end of the game, I correctly realize that the entirety of Mass Effect 3 is the "ending". The ending starts as soon as you start a new game. The previous two acts were seen in Mass Effect and Mass Effect 2. People are putting too much stock in a 10 second cutscene and ignoring the rest of the ending. I also realize that it is Bioware's story to end - not mine, and that of not the very vocal trolls and haters on this forum.

-sigh- You don't even understand WHY the majority are unhappy with the ending. It's not because of wanting a happy ending, in fact the majority of us don't mind an ending with sacrifice... but at least do it with TACT, SENSIBILITY, LOGIC, and CHOICE on HOW we can end it. Much of the last 10 minutes did not make any sense and there was absolutley no Choice involved, only the failed illusion of the same ending.

Right now, any ending that the fans are coming up with are 10 times better than the ending that is presented now.

Modifié par Therefore_I_Am, 16 mars 2012 - 02:47 .

[ninjaNumber1]

pkmn wrote...

When Dickens gave into readers and changed the ending to Great Expectations, it was one of the great failings in the art of literature. That the masses, rather than the artist, would dictate  the conclusion of a brilliant work of literature was about as anti-art as you can get.

Bioware is faced with a similar dilemma now. Some very vocal fans are demanding a DLC that adds another alternative happy ending.

Bioware, please realize that this is a crossroads for video games as an art form. If you give into fans, you will be showing that the ending of videogames is decided by the masses rather than by the artist - you will be tarnishing a great work of art; you'll be forever disgracing the idea that video games can be seen as an art form.

While I was not entirely pleased with the 10 second cutscene at the end of the game, I correctly realize that the entirety of Mass Effect 3 is the "ending". The ending starts as soon as you start a new game. The previous two acts were seen in Mass Effect and Mass Effect 2. People are putting too much stock in a 10 second cutscene and ignoring the rest of the ending. I also realize that it is Bioware's story to end - not mine, and that of not the very vocal trolls and haters on this forum.

Artist do have to listen to people. What do you think happens when an art student draws a pretty retarded picture? It is condemned by his instructor and others based on artistic values. Then the student goes back to the drawing board.

Same here. Bioware's ending was an artistic failure.... unles you want to redefine narrative to be just a random sequence of disconnected events that show no continuity.  So please, I think you should spare us the 'integrity' speech and give it to Bioware instead.

Modifié par ninjaNumber1, 16 mars 2012 - 02:45 .

[ScotGaymer]

For gods sakes.

VIDEO GAMES ARE NOT ART!

Argh!

How many times do I have to say this jeezo.

Video Games are a product designed to entertain the audience, they might be artistic, be created by artistic and creative people but they are NOT art!
There is a big difference between something being artistic and something actually being art.

The reason video games are not art is because Art and Video Games aim to do things that are diametrically opposed to each other.

Art is something that is usually intended to be thought provoking, emotive, and moving. Something that makes you think and feel. Something that has a deep meaning about life, or the universe, or have some message about "the big things".
Video Games are different. Video Games are intended ultimately as an entertaining distraction to distract you from the big things in life. They are meant to be a fun diversion. There is no great deep meaning in that, and thats just fine - they don't have to have some great meaning. The point is in the enjoyment.

Given that they are NOT Art, and that they are a Commercial Product created by a Business then that means we are not Art Afficienados - we are Consumers. We paid for this product, we had certain expectations of how this product would work based upon the advertising.
And for many (but not everyone) it did not meet the standard that we feel we were "promised" by the advertising; thus given this is a product from a commercial business we are perfectly and legally entitled to complain about it and to ask for some sort of change to occur about it.
We are allowed to request redress.

The whole arguement has nothing to to with artistic license, or intellectual integrity - those things are completely seperate issues that do not apply to the ending issues; the arguement is purely about good business practice.
Not fulfilling your promises about a product is NOT good business.