68 réponses à ce sujet

[rumination888]

The hard cap is 50%. Momentum is 30%, Haste is 25%, Swift Salve is 20%.

[Rayne Myria Solo]

Lemonio wrote...

Inarai wrote...

Lemonio wrote...

why whirlwind
i want my rogue to be pure backstab
if i get surrounded by enemies i will use stealth
whirlwind is not very useful because my rogue will have like 0 constitution and bad armor so i'll get raped if i am attacked by many people at once
i plan to go backstab all the way

Don't assume everything will work as planned all the time.

not assuming anything, however trying to take on a bunch of enemies head on as rogue will definetly NOT work 

You would be surprised. My rogue can fight groups of darkspawn head on...her defense is well past 100 and short of emmisaries, doesn't get hit much. I also have so much anti-darkspawn, paralyze, and grandmaster runes in my weapons..well...yellow darkspawn die in about 5 moves, not counting punisher, which brings it down to 3...so yes, they can, if planned and specced properly. granted she's not much of a "rogue" as I don't have any stealth abilities, no lockpicking, no traps, though she can pickpocket. She's really more of a Zorro type. Have the entire dual-wield tree, the entire assassin tree, and the entire duelist tree (I will get pinpoint strike at 20). My unmodified black stat numbers currently are..40 str 36 dex 21 will 11 Magic 30 Cunning and 20 Constitution.

[metatrans]

you'd be surprised just how badly you really do need the hit rating.

with minimal dex build (as you're describing) you'll only be able to get a hit rate of like 70% on most mobs. a build going up to 35 dex will get that hit rate closer to 85%. its a huge difference.

also keep in mind that some mobs cannot be backstabbed. this is either because they are immune to flanking (most shield using mobs are) or because the battlefield situation is such that you cannot easily move into flanking position.

so its very important to be at least competent (if not excellent) at fighting from a frontal position when necessary. backstabs are preferred but you don't want a character that is totally ineffective except under ideal circumstances.

and with regards to your original question "isnt it better to use my Mage's resources to boost my Rogue than to use my Rogue's resources to boost my Rogue?" my answer to this question is a solid no. mage resources are inherently more valuable than rogue resources since mage spells are inherently more powerful than anything a rogue can do.

Modifié par metatrans, 29 novembre 2009 - 01:33 .

[Rayne Myria Solo]

Lemonio wrote...

Inarai wrote...
It doesn't work like that in Dragon Age.  For one, you won't hit.  Also, Dex also adds damage to dagger attacks - I'm assuming you're going daggers, since you clearly aren't wanting enough strength to use anything else.

with the current dex bugged i will get 100% damage from cunning
also i don't really need a boost to hit 
especially with backstabs i will hit most of the time even with low dexterity

at above poster, i could do that, but then why not just go warrior?
that build isn't really the backstabby type and has few advantages over warrior

You would be incorrect. I backstab 60-80% of the time..Coup De Grace makes any stun/paralyze/freeze/petrify into a 360 degree backstab, no warrior can do that. Combat movement gives me 180 degree standard backstab, no warrior can do that. Warriors cannot use the Duelist or Assassin prestige classes. You get 100% damage from cunning with Lethality, correct, but you will miss like a fool. To hit is half strength and half dex, that's why my character's to hit is about 120, and I almost never miss a foe, (Duelist helps). You will screw youself over fairly badly assuming you'll be able to work from stealth 100% of the time. There's nothing WRONG with stealth..but you'll find the game VERY hard if you do what you're suggesting, especially on Normal or above. The game like most favors at least MOSTLY balanced characters (moreso in this game due to to-hit not being 100% determined by dex, as it is in most systems). Notice how close all of my numbes are. It's also worth noting Con was about 15 until recently, I've been pumping it up to keep it more in line, as I felt my other numbers were "high enough".

[Rayne Myria Solo]

Also keep in mind...without at least 20 strength you can't equip the best light armor in the game, and the better swords are 25-31 (if you're not dual-daggering.

[Bullets McDeath]

Go with momentum. You're gimping yourself otherwise.

[metatrans]

if you already had a build in mind then why argue with us about it on the forums? you can play the game anyway you like, its not so hard that less the totally optimized builds won't work.



but you came to the forum and asked "is this good?" and found some opinions saying "not as good as it could be". you can take it or leave it and play however you like but arguing against the facts of which builds are most optimized is counter-productive.



just read Discobird's thread. its got the number crunch. you can use one of those playstyles if you like or you can use your build. i'm sure it will work just fine.



http://social.biowar.../index/223777/1

[weism]

Lemonio wrote...


but the points i put into cun significantly increase my attack rating

Hum... unless your game is bugged, Cunning does not increase attack rating. Cunning only increases armor penetration. Armor penetration is there to counter armor, so it effectively translate to higher damage versus high armor enmies. But it does not in anyway whatsoever increase your attack rating.

[metatrans]

not mutually exclusive to get momentum and stealth. sample build.



(from Rogue class talents) 12 talents

Dirty Fighting -> Combat Movement -> Coup de Grace

Below The Belt -> Deadly Strike -> Lethality

Deft Hands 1 -> Deft Hands 2

Stealth 1 -> Stealth 2 -> Stealth 3 -> Stealth 4



(from Assassin Spec) 2 talents

Mark of Death -> Exploit Weakness



(from Duelist Spec) 1 talent

Dueling



(from Dual Weapon Style) 5 talents

Dual Weapon Training -> Dual Weapon Finesse

Dual Weapon Sweep -> Flurry -> Momentum



total talents in this build: 20



the build is completed by level 17 even without buying any talent books. it can be completed by level 14 if you're enterprising about getting bonus talents from books and quests.

[metatrans]

Lemonio wrote...

weism wrote...

Lemonio wrote...


but the points i put into cun significantly increase my attack rating

Hum... unless your game is bugged, Cunning does not increase attack rating. Cunning only increases armor penetration. Armor penetration is there to counter armor, so it effectively translate to higher damage versus high armor enmies. But it does not in anyway whatsoever increase your attack rating.

lethality

lethality transfer the strength DAMAGE bonus only. it does not transfer the strength Attack Rating bonus. 

[weism]

Lemonio wrote...

weism wrote...

Lemonio wrote...


but the points i put into cun significantly increase my attack rating

Hum... unless your game is bugged, Cunning does not increase attack rating. Cunning only increases armor penetration. Armor penetration is there to counter armor, so it effectively translate to higher damage versus high armor enmies. But it does not in anyway whatsoever increase your attack rating.

lethality

Lethality only affect attack damage, attack damage is calculated using cun instead of str if your cun is higher than str. It does not affect attack rating. if you want go for cunning build, you got raise up dex to pump up your attack rating, there is no other way.

[metatrans]

i think you can could get Combat Stealth by level 8 (minimum level) if you prioritized like this



1. Dirty Fighting (starting talent from origin), Deft Hands, Dual Weapon Sweep (pick 2 talents at creation)

2. Below the Belt

3. Dual Weapon Training

4. Combat Movement

5. Deadly Strike, Stealth 1 (bonus talent from The Joining quest reward)

6. Flurry

7. Stealth 2

8. Stealth 3

9. Momentum

10. Lethality



if you bought talent books you could get Momentum and/or Lethality at level 8 as well. if you're ok waiting on them you can use the talent books to increase your Deft Hands so you can open more of the chests you find.



in any case the talent burden of the build isn't that high if you prioritize your picks well.

[tranj84cl]

metatrans wrote...

i think you can could get Combat Stealth by level 8 (minimum level) if you prioritized like this

1. Dirty Fighting (starting talent from origin), Deft Hands, Dual Weapon Sweep (pick 2 talents at creation)
2. Below the Belt
3. Dual Weapon Training
4. Combat Movement
5. Deadly Strike, Stealth 1 (bonus talent from The Joining quest reward)
6. Flurry
7. Stealth 2
8. Stealth 3
9. Momentum
10. Lethality

if you bought talent books you could get Momentum and/or Lethality at level 8 as well. if you're ok waiting on them you can use the talent books to increase your Deft Hands so you can open more of the chests you find.

in any case the talent burden of the build isn't that high if you prioritize your picks well.

I highly recommend going for Momentum first.  Get it as soon as you can, because it is THE skill that makes dual wielding the powerhouse that it is.

[Silensfurtim]

my CUN rogue has 35 base DEX (+20 for item and spec bonuses. so that makes 55 DEX). I backstab 90%-100% of the time and I got a hit rate of 89% from mid-game to end-game. whenever i do backstab, i never miss.



if your primary job as sa Rogue is to backstab. then you dont need DEX that much. yes it has low attack/defense. but flanking gives +20 attack bonus, dueling gives +10. buff your party with Alistair's Rally or Leliana's Song of Courage (or yours if you happen to be Assassin/Bard), and maybe Shale's Stone Aura, your attack/defense will reach up to 120-130.

[Inarai]

Lemonio wrote...

well i gave in
getting momentum at level 3

You won't meet the req's that fast.

But, it will still help you.  Toss momentum up, you backstab faster, too.  And there are some situations where you wind up in single combat, anyways.

[Silensfurtim]

its funny when everyone thinks that going solo/semi-solo rogue is the only way to go.(uber high attack/defense rating)

Modifié par Silensfurtim, 29 novembre 2009 - 03:38 .

[Silensfurtim]

heres my CUN rogue dueling Loghain. was it a pain in the ass? no.

[Silensfurtim]

@ Lemonio

just play the game you want to play. youll discover soon what are its advantages and disadvantages. just like what i did.

i played as a DEX/CUN Rogue, DEX Rogue and CUN Rogue in my playthroughs. I found CUN Rogue to be more satisfying damage wise. i have 89% hit rate (based on heroic stats). so when other people say that CUN Rogues miss like crazy, they are not playing the backstabber right.. it really depends on how you play your backstabber.

Modifié par Silensfurtim, 29 novembre 2009 - 03:53 .