145 réponses à ce sujet

[Sezarious]

[/quote]

1. I payed 70€ for my digital version. A friend of mine payed 60 for his retail copy. I say it's your own fault for wasting almost twice as much money on the collector editon + shipment.

2. They are not going to change the ending, they MAY be adding to it.

3. No matter what YOU would like the think, art, no matter what medium, is not free.


[/quote]

Good thing they aren't getting my money then

[MaynPayn]

How do you define art?

[greghorvath]

Is there a separate forum for adults somewhere? Cause I seem to be lost in the kiddie pen where the brats are throwing tantrums...

[Arkitekt]

Sezarious wrote...

Good thing they aren't getting my money then

/ THREAD

[Sezarious]

MaynPayn wrote...

How do you define art?

Again i'm talking about the fact that Gamers who have complained have been told that Mass Effect is Art "So stop complaining, we're not changing it".  But BIOWARE is a Company.  They are selling it as a product.  Thus we ARE entitled to treat it as one.

[Ohpus]

k177sh0t wrote...

Who said it was?

Anyone defending the train-wreck of an ending.

It's comparable to watching the Toronto Maple Leafs right now. Flying along like a semi, then it just falls off a cliff.

[Arkitekt]

It is both a product and art.

You are entitled to say anything you want about the product / art.

You are entitled to complain.

However other people are also entitled to ridicule what is blatantly over-the-top whining.

[Derengard]

I think where this topic is getting at is that when they try to defend their choices by creative freedom, it doesn't give them a pass. Surprising and unconventional ways of storytelling are not beyond criticism, but modernism and experimental narrative are pretty established and they would still have to apply to common criteria of quality, like "making sense", meaning, technique and so on.

[android654]

The only games I can think of as being a piece of art or having artistic endeavors are Heavy Rain and the Fallout series. Heavy Rain because of its emphasis on cinematic drama and the Fallout series because of its political and social satire and commentary about Cold-War era "American Exceptionalism" and blind patriotism. Outside of that, everything else I've seen in games on borders on clever, but the overall games haven't been a medium for artistic expression.

[nel e nel]

Sezarious wrote...

1. I payed 70€ for my digital version. A friend of mine payed 60 for his retail copy. I say it's your own fault for wasting almost twice as much money on the collector editon + shipment.

Sezarious wrote...

I returned it.  I got my money back.  That's why i did not register under mass effect 3.  I registered under mass effect 2 to gain access.

I wonder how many angry people have not been able to post on these forums due to those rules/restrictions

 

This is fishy.

How can one return a digital product? Also, considering most retailers won't accept opened physical copies of software for return. You also don't need any UPC codes to register, the forums recognize that you've played the game, and all you have to do is click 'register'. 

Maybe the reason they have the registration gate is to cut down on the amount of nonsense that gets posted, i.e. this thread. 

[Bocks]

Needs some blue and green in order to be a more final statement.

[LinksOcarina]

I think it's commercial art, but thats my perception of the game as a whole. One thing you need to understand is that art is very subjective. So those critics and writers who believe it to be art can do so, just as much as you say it cant be art.

Perception of legitimacy is key here, because something subjective has no legitimacy to begin with.

[CerberusSoldier]

Mass Effect 3 is not art at all . Its a piece of dog Sh as far as a Sci Fi game goes

[Munktor]

So the entire basis of your argument is art is "priceless" and products get sold???

I guess art auctions never occur, and music isn't an artform haha.

[Derengard]

The forums also don't recognize that I've played Mass Effect 1 and 2, apparently, although I'm one who hasn't bought Mass Effect 3. I don't pay money for something which I know I wouldn't like (I was going to before I heard about the controversy, and I don't regret it).

Modifié par Derengard, 16 mars 2012 - 03:41 .

[Sezarious]

greghorvath wrote...

Is there a separate forum for adults somewhere? Cause I seem to be lost in the kiddie pen where the brats are throwing tantrums...

May I make a point that when a person talks about someone like that, they are placing a judgement on them, therefore placing them above or below their own value.  I am targetting what I beleive to be a problem.  I am not targetting people personally.

[LinksOcarina]

Sezarious wrote...

greghorvath wrote...

Is there a separate forum for adults somewhere? Cause I seem to be lost in the kiddie pen where the brats are throwing tantrums...

May I make a point that when a person talks about someone like that, they are placing a judgement on them, therefore placing them above or below their own value.  I am targetting what I beleive to be a problem.  I am not targetting people personally.

And yet, it was in a condesending way with groundless claims to super-impose your perception on everyone else.

Try more tact next time.

Modifié par LinksOcarina, 16 mars 2012 - 03:47 .

[JasmoVT]

Sezarious wrote...

It is greatly concerning the number of people defending the idea that WE, the customers cannot demand a better ending.

Well [color=rgb(255,0,0)">BIOWARE DOES NOT treat Mass Effect as a peice of art. ]LIKE [/color]A PRODUCT[/b].... BECAUSE IT IS!  It has a monetary value.

Art is priceless.

Mass Effect is $110.00.

Therefore, we as customers may chose whether or not the game is [color=rgb(255,0,0)">WORTH ]WANT[/color] to treat it like a bad TOASTER, we will.  If we WANT BETTER, WE WILL DEMAND BETTER.  Or we will TAKE OUR MONEY ELSEWHERE.

No matter what people would like to think,  Bioware and it's Artists DO NOT have the moral Highground here.  They are SALESPERSONS trying to sell their PRODUCT.  If you don't want it, don't buy it, or return it

If they don't want to change it, they are only HURTING THEMSELVES.

[b]HOLD THE LINE

So according to you, music is not art, movies are not art, plays are not art, books are not art, paintings are not art, etc. All of those are products people sell. Failed artist produce works no one wants and attach some higher purpose to it. Mass Effect is art, much of it is. in fact, pretty good in comparison to the movies and books produced these days. It is simply silly to try to divide products from art. Sure they are consumer products folks, so what, doesn't not have any bearing on whether or not it is art.

[loungeshep]

Angry fan post is angry.

[AartB]

theres always a pricetag on art. even the most historical pieces (infact especially those) are expensive as hell.

[greghorvath]

Sezarious wrote...

greghorvath wrote...

Is there a separate forum for adults somewhere? Cause I seem to be lost in the kiddie pen where the brats are throwing tantrums...

May I make a point that when a person talks about someone like that, they are placing a judgement on them, therefore placing them above or below their own value.  I am targetting what I beleive to be a problem.  I am not targetting people personally.

Yes, you may. You are right, but unfortunately so am I. Noone wins.

Here is a riddle for you:
there is a musician who has a hit single. 10 years pass with the musician playing that song every single concert and getting utterly frustrated with it. One day he decides not to play that song and the audience goes into a rage. the question is: is that musician only a puppet of the paying audience, or is the audience mature enough to understand that there is a person there on the other side?

This thread tries to simplify something to a degree that is unacceptable.

You have a mythology, interactive storytelling, great visual value, great music (well, up until ME3 at least), great everything but the audience has to pay to access it (just like in the case of music, theatre, galleries, etc). That makes it a product and the fee entitles the buyer to hysterics?

[Ryvack]

Sezarious wrote...

It is greatly concerning the number of people defending the idea that WE, the customers cannot demand a better ending.

Well [color=rgb(255, 0, 0)">BIOWARE DOES NOT treat Mass Effect as a peice of art. ]LIKE [/color]A PRODUCT[/b].... BECAUSE IT IS!  It has a monetary value.

Art is priceless.

Mass Effect is $110.00.

Therefore, we as customers may chose whether or not the game is [color=rgb(255, 0, 0)">WORTH ]WANT[/color] to treat it like a bad TOASTER, we will.  If we WANT BETTER, WE WILL DEMAND BETTER.  Or we will TAKE OUR MONEY ELSEWHERE.

No matter what people would like to think,  Bioware and it's Artists DO NOT have the moral Highground here.  They are SALESPERSONS trying to sell their PRODUCT.  If you don't want it, don't buy it, or return it

If they don't want to change it, they are only HURTING THEMSELVES.

[b]HOLD THE LINE

EPIC UNIVERSAL *facepalm* 

[Raniall]

If we are going to fight for it to have the same rights and protections as other mediums, there is a price we'll have to pay somewhere down the line. Just saying.

[Obrusnine]

Sezarious wrote...

It is greatly concerning the number of people defending the idea that WE, the customers cannot demand a better ending.

Well [color=rgb(255, 0, 0)">BIOWARE DOES NOT treat Mass Effect as a peice of art. ]LIKE [/color]A PRODUCT[/b].... BECAUSE IT IS!  It has a monetary value.

Art is priceless.

Mass Effect is $110.00.

Therefore, we as customers may chose whether or not the game is [color=rgb(255, 0, 0)">WORTH ]WANT[/color] to treat it like a bad TOASTER, we will.  If we WANT BETTER, WE WILL DEMAND BETTER.  Or we will TAKE OUR MONEY ELSEWHERE.

No matter what people would like to think,  Bioware and it's Artists DO NOT have the moral Highground here.  They are SALESPERSONS trying to sell their PRODUCT.  If you don't want it, don't buy it, or return it

If they don't want to change it, they are only HURTING THEMSELVES.

[b]HOLD THE LINE

Sorry, but you're wrong.

If art is priceless what are movies or cinematography in general? They aren't art because people have to pay for them?

What about music? You have to pay for that to.

What about literature and books? You also have to pay for that.

What about drawing and painting art? Yup, except for a few historic pieces, most of them have a price and you can buy them. Or order one be drawn up for you.

Then we come to video games, which the debate on whether or not they are art has been going for a long time, but it's nonsense. Video games are the ultimate form of media. They combine a bunch of different pieces of art into a single whole.

Music, cinematography, writing, drawing and painting art... how do you combine all of these different pieces of art into one whole and say they aren't art? That's non-sensical.

Not only is Mass Effect art, but so are a lot of  other great video games.

But just like a lot of art, Mass Effect is flawed art. Flawed art is fixed by the artist. So if they want our respect as artists again, they need to fix their flawed art.

Modifié par Obrusnine, 16 mars 2012 - 04:16 .

[LinksOcarina]

There is no such thing as flawed art. Art is again, subjective to the tastes of the viewer.

You may think its flawed, but in a room of ten people not everyone would agree.